Author Topic: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha  (Read 26413 times)

yontenjamyang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
    • Email
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2013, 05:02:51 AM »
Thank You All for this great thread on the proof that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. I will offer my argument in support of this here.

The 10 reasons stated in the article and quoted by jagger is definitely valid. That link is as follows for your convenience. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/

First I would like to point out that the "ban" initially started in 1977 when the Dalai Lama began speaking out against the use of the deity as an institutional protector and laying restrictions on public performances of the practice. He stated that the Shugden practice is in conflict with the state protector Pehar and with the main protective goddess of the Gelug tradition and the Tibetan people, Palden Lhamo. He also stated that the practice encourages sectarian rivalry between Tibetan Buddhist schools. The Dalai Lama states that he has not forbidden the Shugden practice but only advised against it, and that individuals should decide for themselves if they want to practice it privately; however, he does not wish practitioners to attend his formal religious teachings.

From March 1996 onwards, the Dalai Lama decided to move more forcefully on this issue,which "is to be seen in connection with his interest in finding common ground in the main schools of Tibetan Buddhism so as to overcome precisely those exclusivist tendencies that Shugden is said to protect." Many believes this was a response "to growing pressure - particularly from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism such as the Nyingmapa, who threatened withdrawal of their support in the Exiled Government project. The Dalai Lama stated during a Buddhist Tantric initiation that Shugden was 'an evil spirit' whose actions were detrimental to the 'cause of Tibet'.The Dalai Lama concluded that henceforth he would not give Tantric initiations to worshippers of Shugden, since "the unbridgeable divergence of their respective positions would inevitably undermine the sacred guru-student relationship, and thus compromise his role as a teacher (and by extension his health)."

It is clear that the main and perhaps only reason that the Dalai Lama instituted the ban is due pressures from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism for political reasons. It is due to the collective karma of the Tibetan people and via that the Tibetan government that the ban was put into place as a means to "unite" the Tibetan people. However, the greatest paradox is that the ban actually divided the Tibetan people into 2 main groups ie the non-Shugden and the Shugden group. Also, resulting from the ban, Shugden practice has spread farther and wider than ever in its history.

By inferential logic, since many great lamas including the Dalai Lama have practiced the protector practice, the basis of the logic is clear that the protector is enlightened. Hence, the ban represent a crossroad and divergence for the practice to spread. One branch of the divergence is the non-Shugden practitioner. This branch serve to "strengthen and unite" these non-shugden practitioners including the CTA and the other branch is the Shugden practitioners who has gone on to spread the practice far and wide. So now, Tibetan Buddhism has 2 strong followings albeit these groups seems to be in conflict with each other; but both these groups have gained very high international profiles ie are famous.

In the Dharma, it is said that the most important thing is the result of practicing the Dharma. By the same logic, the result of the ban and hence the main argument that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha is the result of the ban.

A Buddha is a Buddha.
Whatever is done to him,
Or his practice,
Will ultimately bring positive results.

With folded hands!
YJ.

lotus1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2013, 05:03:34 AM »
From the iconography, Dorje Shugden has wisdom eyes, in the middle of his forehead perceives directly the totality of relative and absolute reality of past, present and future, and denotes his omniscient ability to perceive the three times simultaneously.  There is also dark wind-swept wisdom fire” emanates directly from each pore of Dorje Shugden’s body. It is a manifestation of Dorje Shugden’s Bodhichitta, or great compassion. We can also see in his iconography, the lotus he sits upon shows that all his actions are based on and arise from great compassion; the sun disc atop the lotus reveals his direct realization of emptiness. These are some of the qualities of Buddha.  Please check out for more details of Dorje Shudgen iconography here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/appearance/appearance/

In addition to the above, we can also see a lot of prayers of Dorje Shugden that show he is a Buddha. Recently, there is a prayer composed by the current incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen that says :
You are my Buddha, my yidam, my Guru, my protector and my complete source of blessings.
By relying on your rituals, mantras, prayers and puja,
I can always create a powerful Vajra Manjushri link to you that will extend to future lives.
  http://www.dorjeshugden.com/prayers/dorje-shugden-prayers/a-prayer-by-the-current-incarnation-of-tulku-drakpa-gyeltsen/

Therefore, it is very clear that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha the we can rely on.

yontenjamyang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
    • Email
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2013, 05:19:44 AM »
Hey HR

thank you for the wonderful insight which you've given.

From you post, I understand the nature of Dorje Shugden which my kind teacher has been always telling me about. My teacher told me from the beginning that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. I didn't think much about it back then as I felt very comfortable in accepting Dorje Shugden as my protector deity.

Where I am living here there are many mediums who take trances of other ethereal beings which I've witnessed many times and they give me a very eerie feeling. But when I watch Dorje Shugden taking trance during the inauguration of Shar Gaden, I had a deep sense of peace and also awe because the first thought that arose in my mind was that this Being, this holy being people revere is so so kind because he takes so much effort to come in a trance to give us advise and Dharma.

This is never heard of before, a protector deity giving Dharma teachings. That is what I understand and in my daily prayer, there's a line whereby we enthrone Dorje Shugden as the Guru, Yidam and Protector.

I'm beginning to understand the nature of Dorje Shugden more and more with the existence of this website and forum.

Thank you to those who made it possible.

Yes Jagger. Similarly, my Guru has also told me that the Protector is a Buddha from day one. Since, all attainments arise from Guru Devotion, once we regard the Guru as our Guru and then with faith and study/understanding/realizations/wisdom, we propitiate the Protector and regard him as an emanation of the Guru, who according to the Lamrim is without doubt a Buddha; then the Protector is the Guru/Buddha. So, all of our doubts if any evaporates. We can do this by continuing practice and study and checking the results; we gain more and more faith until finally all doubts are no more and we regard the protector as  the Guru/Buddha/Protector.

My faith evolves from Guru Devotion.

Johnson Yap

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2013, 05:25:12 AM »
Dorje Shugden is confirmed a Buddha. There is no doubt about it.

The convincing proof we could realized are that Dorje Shugden has arisen as the principal Protector of Je Tsongkhapa’s doctrine over 300 years ago and from then the Fifth Dalai Lama till the current 14th Dalai Lama (before the ban was imposed) have recognized Dorje Shugden as enlightened. During this long period of time, there were many highest Lamas who relied on Dorje Shugden. All these Lamas could not be wrong!

Another fact shown that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha is that he is indestructible, even by the high Lamas including the Fifth Dalai Lama. It is only Buddha, a fully enlightened beings are indestructible.  Dorje Shugden is the manifestation of the five Buddha families as explained. Only Buddha, an enlightened being has this capability.

jagger

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • For the love of Shugden
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2013, 05:29:43 AM »
Thank You All for this great thread on the proof that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. I will offer my argument in support of this here.

The 10 reasons stated in the article and quoted by jagger is definitely valid. That link is as follows for your convenience. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/

First I would like to point out that the "ban" initially started in 1977 when the Dalai Lama began speaking out against the use of the deity as an institutional protector and laying restrictions on public performances of the practice. He stated that the Shugden practice is in conflict with the state protector Pehar and with the main protective goddess of the Gelug tradition and the Tibetan people, Palden Lhamo. He also stated that the practice encourages sectarian rivalry between Tibetan Buddhist schools. The Dalai Lama states that he has not forbidden the Shugden practice but only advised against it, and that individuals should decide for themselves if they want to practice it privately; however, he does not wish practitioners to attend his formal religious teachings.

From March 1996 onwards, the Dalai Lama decided to move more forcefully on this issue,which "is to be seen in connection with his interest in finding common ground in the main schools of Tibetan Buddhism so as to overcome precisely those exclusivist tendencies that Shugden is said to protect." Many believes this was a response "to growing pressure - particularly from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism such as the Nyingmapa, who threatened withdrawal of their support in the Exiled Government project. The Dalai Lama stated during a Buddhist Tantric initiation that Shugden was 'an evil spirit' whose actions were detrimental to the 'cause of Tibet'.The Dalai Lama concluded that henceforth he would not give Tantric initiations to worshippers of Shugden, since "the unbridgeable divergence of their respective positions would inevitably undermine the sacred guru-student relationship, and thus compromise his role as a teacher (and by extension his health)."

It is clear that the main and perhaps only reason that the Dalai Lama instituted the ban is due pressures from other schools of Tibetan Buddhism for political reasons. It is due to the collective karma of the Tibetan people and via that the Tibetan government that the ban was put into place as a means to "unite" the Tibetan people. However, the greatest paradox is that the ban actually divided the Tibetan people into 2 main groups ie the non-Shugden and the Shugden group. Also, resulting from the ban, Shugden practice has spread farther and wider than ever in its history.

By inferential logic, since many great lamas including the Dalai Lama have practiced the protector practice, the basis of the logic is clear that the protector is enlightened. Hence, the ban represent a crossroad and divergence for the practice to spread. One branch of the divergence is the non-Shugden practitioner. This branch serve to "strengthen and unite" these non-shugden practitioners including the CTA and the other branch is the Shugden practitioners who has gone on to spread the practice far and wide. So now, Tibetan Buddhism has 2 strong followings albeit these groups seems to be in conflict with each other; but both these groups have gained very high international profiles ie are famous.

In the Dharma, it is said that the most important thing is the result of practicing the Dharma. By the same logic, the result of the ban and hence the main argument that the Protector Dorje Shugden is a Buddha is the result of the ban.

A Buddha is a Buddha.
Whatever is done to him,
Or his practice,
Will ultimately bring positive results.

With folded hands!
YJ.


Thank you for pointing this out YJ! It makes sound sense! What the ban is really about is due to political pressure from different schools. From the CTA, the people working under them have resorted to banning Dorje Shugden practitioners from entering shops and doing their necessary purchases to sustain life in order to suppress them. What spiritual effect do they really derive from it? Nothing really, it is only to look good in the eyes of the authorities but inwardly, their spiritual progress has gone backwards.

Also another thing to point out about this point of pressure is that people have mixed in their own agendas with religious agendas by playing God and undermining the divine. They have created deities which does not exist in the Buddhist pantheon in the first place in order to further suppress Dorje Shugden practice and followers. There's nothing to offer spiritually in these attempts but what happens is that it increases the chances of our downfall.

Bless our minds and praises to our lineage masters whom have taught us well, we're able to have superior Spiritual guides to guide us onto the path with less conflict
Jaggerboy

lotus1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2013, 05:50:07 AM »
Another point to add:

When Dorje Shugden takes trance, it is sometimes his  peaceful emanation, as Duldzin (Drakpa Gyeltsen) that takes trance. In this way, he emanates as a Lama (which is also what he was in one of his previous incarnations)  and therefore gives teachings while in trance. This is very unique. While most protectors in trance only give advice and divinations, Dorje Shugden is also able to give teachings, practices and initiations. This is proof also that he is not just a spirit, for spirits or any beings lower than a Buddha would not be able to teach in this way, as a Lama, or grant initiations.

There are some videos on the YouTube account of an oracle taking trance of the peaceful Dorje Shugden, as Duldzin, which can be viewed here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcnQfL6ZUg (part 1)


Thank you Beggar for sharing. I agreed fully with you that if Dorje Shugden is not Manjushri Buddha, how would he be able to give such a profound teaching eg in an audiance at Losar 2013, Taiwan, on how we can harness the power of the mind to help overcome our negative afflictive emotions. He explained extensively how the mind correlates with our daily actions of body and speech. When the mind is calm, our bodily actions and our speech will also be calm and beneficial to our spiritual wellbeing. He also taught on how to strengthen our practice through prayers to help us overcome obstacles and gain attainments.

Thank you Dorjeshudgen.com for translating the teaching so that all of us can understand and follow.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/dharma-readings/a-teaching-by-dorje-shugden-losar-2013/




Johnson Yap

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2013, 06:06:46 AM »
Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. There is no denying that fact. I think that there is more proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha other than the fact that high lamas make offerings to them.

1. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because he benefits people through his practice.

2. If he was not a Buddha, why the Dalai Lama can't exorcise him when the Dalai Lama is so powerful?

3. If he was not a Buddha, why did the 5th Dalai Lama and the 14th Dalai Lama write praises to Dorje Shugden?

4. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because he does not ask for anything in return for what he has done for you.

5. If he was not a Buddha, why are there so many high lamas that support him?

Above are five points of proof that Dorje Shugden is ENLIGHTENED!



I fully agreed that Dorje Shugden is enlightened and he is a Buddha.

In addition to what were being highlighted, I would like to add the following:

Only Dorje Shugden, being an enlightened Buddha has the capability to ensure the safe journey of the Dalai Lama traveling thousands of miles from Tibet to India in 1959.

Dorje Shugden has been the principal Proctector of Je Tsongkhapa's doctrine for more than 300 years. Since then many high Lamas who were enlightened, have relied on Dorje Shugden. Therefore Dorje Shugden is also enlightened.

As a Buddha, Dorje Shugden does not only help Gelugpas, he helps all living beings. He has also  shown in many instances granting blessings, wisdoms and fulfillment of wishes to faithful practitioners.

trinity

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2013, 06:17:27 AM »
I totally agree that Dorje Shugden is definitely an Enlightened Buddha!!!

I wish to share a little bit my own experiences in Dorje Shugden practice. I had been practice Dorje Shugden practice more than 2 years time. I connected this practice after i face serious financial difficulty. However many of my financial difficulties solve out of my prediction but IS the BEST solution of those problems. The outcome is so awesome and extraordinary.

Some more i met an accident recently, my car being spinned hence dropped down hill during a heavy rain day but fortunately i did not suffer any injure. At the moment of spin i feel that my car is being hold by a powerful strength and make my car being landed smoothly on the hill. Most of my family and friends were not believe i had met accident until they saw my car pictures.

Thanks Dorje Shugden for rescue my life and lesser my worldly obstacles hence giving me more time in this practice to help more and more peoples around me.

supertara

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • Email
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2013, 06:18:44 AM »
I agreed Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because Dorje Shugden’s pratice really help me in many way ! He is not only help me to clear my worldly obstacles,examples like my company’s business became stable,my workers also became more hardworking and more responsible on their duty. My relationship with my families are more closer and united,my kids more obedient and independent,the most important point is my husband not stop me to learn dharma anymore,even he became more support in my spiritual path !! Although the Dorje Shugden’s lineage is long and details that I could not understand 100 % but through my experience I definitely feel that Dorje Shugden is a truly Enlightened Buddha !! NO DOUBT !!!
 


Tenzin Malgyur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 551
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2013, 06:21:03 AM »
I think the biggest proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha comes from the proclamation by great High Lamas like Kyabje Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and many other great and high Lamas. Even the current Dalai Lama himself proclaim Dorje Shugden as a Buddha in his praise before the ban.

If these great Lamas were truly wrong, then all their lineages and teachings on the Lamrim, Tantric teachings, lojong and so forth must be flawed as well. If they were flawed, then there can be no results and attainments arising from practice. Then there is no reason to practice the Dharma. It is dramatic but the logic is clear and simple. So many obviously awakened masters have said Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. It must be true.

Big Uncle, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the biggest proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha from the fact that many great high lamas practiced and declared Dorje Shugden as their protector. Some of the highly attained Lamas being HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Pabongka Rinpoche, Domo Rinpoche and Gangchen Rinpoche to name a few. Surely not all of the high lamas could make the same mistake and worship a demon. And if these lamas were wrong (because they worship a demon), then it means all of the teachings and practices that were taught by them is also wrong and not valid after all. But this is not the case. Up to today, many of us read and contemplate on the "Liberations In the Palm of your hand"(transcribed by Trijang Rinpoche) to guide us on the path to enligtenment.

Kim Hyun Jae

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • Email
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2013, 06:38:32 AM »
Let me share my experience here related to Je Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden.

When I do not have time to do a whole sadhana, I would just recite the 5-line Migtsema mantra of Lama Tsongkhapa, who encompassed wisdom and compassion usually before I fall asleep. My memory is not great but after reciting the Migtsema, I found improvements over time and mind and emotions calmed down. So how is this related to Dorje Shugden?

Dorje Shugden is a wrathful emanation of Buddha of Wisdom, Manjushri and Je Tsongkhapa is Manjushri, Avaloketisvara and Vajrapani - all enlightened Buddhas mind.

When I practice Dorje Shugden, it does not give me adverse effects. In fact, reciting Dorje Shugden's mantra gives the same result as reciting the Migtsema and even more.

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2013, 06:45:34 AM »
I do strongly support the ten reasons why Dorje Shugden is indeed a Buddha. Yes, if great Masters, like Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, who strongly rely on him , can return again (as their Tulkus) to continue their work of spreading the Dharma, how then can there be any doubt about Dorje Shugden as an Enlightened Protector and Buddha.

My own conviction of Dorje Shugden as  a Buddha comes from a more personal experience. A short while before my mother passed away, three years ago, i had received His practice from my Spiritual Guide. Just before her death, she suddenly heaved and breathed heavily and my heart stopped for a moment , thinking that she was going to leave this life in such a turbulent frame of mind.I had been praying to Shugden and making many offerings to the Protector in the weeks before my mother's death. However, there and then, I did a serkym offering and prayed to Dorje Shugden, to be there and to guide my mother out of this life. As I was in the midst of chanting His mantra, I turned and looked at my mother. She had passed away! Her face had become calm and peaceful! The crown of her head felt warm to the touch! Dorje Shugden was there. He had answered my prayer! He had come and taken my mum to  a peaceful place! All the signs were there!

Would an unenlightened being have the compassion and the power to do this?Only a Buddha can help a sentient being beyond this life.


     

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2013, 07:10:24 AM »
I would like to focus on the third reason that 'ilikeshugden' gave as undeniable proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.  This third reason is as follows - "If he was not a Buddha, why did the 5th and the 14th Dalai Lama write praises to Dorje Shugden".

This point is very important. The issue of the ban on Shugden will only make sense , if  we see it in the light of the devotion of the 14th Dalai Lama toward Dorje Shugden in the earlier part of his lives( as manifested in his composition of the praise and prayer to Shugden - the Melody of the Unceasing Vajra). If we deduce that the 'change of heart ' of this great being(emanation of Chenrezig) toward Shugden has  a more compassionate reason  behind it, we will then be able to await  with patience the unfolding the bigger picture.


hope rainbow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 947
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2013, 02:40:47 AM »
If more needed to be known about Dorje Shugden's compassion, wisdom and skillful means, I would advise to read this:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4233.0

As the Protector of Nagarjuna's Midddle View and the Doctrine of Lama Tsonkhapa, Dorje Shugden continues to demonstrate his swift enlightened works.

Read the above linked article and the comments left on this post to see how much Buddha Dorje Shugden cares, and how much he can do when we create the causes for us to receive help from an enlightened being.

In Tibet before 1959, there were countless monks, countless high lamas and a great number of Rinpoche's. All of the highest ranked of the Gelug lamas relied on Dorje Sjugden, the Dalai Lama relies upon him, Trijang Rinpoche and many more, and state affairs as serious and dramatic as they were in the late fifties were decided upon relying on Dorje Shugden.

If such high lamas, much more, infinitely more qualified than me, do rely upon Dorje Shugden as an enlightened Protecting Buddha! This is also proof to me!

lotus1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2013, 03:25:57 PM »
Thank you for highlighting the fact that Dorje Shugden takes trance, the high lamas makes offerings. This shows the amount of respect high lama gave towards Dorje Shugden and Dorje Shugden must be at least same level or higher level than the high lamas.
I am checking out some photos and videos on the opening of Serpom monastery. I too found some interesting facts that showing Dorje Shudgen is a highly enlightened beings.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/at-the-opening-of-serpom-monastery/ From this article, I can see the photo of Oracle being escort into the Prayer Hall. Monks are playing the long horn, ready to invoke the Dharmapala. It is like welcoming high lamas.
From the video showing Oracle taking trance  (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/grand-opening-of-serpom-monastery-18-december-2011/), we can see that Dorje Shugden is blessing monks by putting his hand on the head of the monks. For high lamas such as Yongyal Ripoche, he is touching his head to the high lamas head. This also showing that Dorje Shugden is at least the same level or higher than the high lamas. When Dorje Shugden is in trance, he is holding vajra and bell. This is showing that he has attained both Compassion and Wisdom.
From the facts above, we can conclude that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit and he is an enlightened Buddha or high beings.