Author Topic: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks  (Read 21923 times)

Helena

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2011, 04:55:10 PM »
Between the world of friends, strangers and enemies - I believe, we all have a wider world of strangers than friends and enemies. And it becomes all too easy to not feel any sympathy for strangers - the people we do not know, have not met and may not likely meet at all. Hence, it is not difficult to for completely disregard strangers. The same may apply for our enemies. But because we know them to be our enemies, we harbour greater dislike for them and an even deeper disregard for them. At the end of the day, we only seem to relate to and care for our friends.

This is precisely what has occurred and been displayed by the ban - not because of HHDL's action to ban it but our own reactions to it and how we seem to perpetuate in those wrong actions and wrong views. We have alienated others as much as they have outcasted us - using the ban to separate us all further, causing a greater divide because we each are under the influence of our own attachment and hatred.

We are and have been guilty of using one or the other as a reason NOT to admire the other and speak badly about either. We are and have been acting in such ordinary ways, due to our ordinary perception and capabilities.

Collectively, we create the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering - not just in the future, but even in the present. For ourselves and for others. I do stress the word: collectively.

They and us equals collectively. We perpetuate our own sufferings together. Not them to us, or us to them. It is the same. Doesn't matter who started the fire or what started the fire, no one is working hard to put out the fire but more concerned with adding fuel to the fire.

Hence, yes, the narrow minded are all of us. Those who do not understand include each and every one of us.

When do we show that we understand? When we act differently. When we hold neither to be responsible for our own pain, suffering and karma. When we do not assign any responsibility to someone else or to another group to remove that pain, suffering and karma. Above all, we do not continue to engage in activities that will add onto the bad karma that we all already carry in varying degrees.




Helena

dsiluvu

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2011, 05:40:19 PM »
" either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."

 - Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967


Instead of spending time over analysing something to look for fault... why don't we spend our time analysing ourselves and see if we have fault? But I guess this is the type of conduct we ordinary beings get caught far too often and lose the real focus of it all.

I don't hear Dorje Shugden taking trance saying negative things about the Dalai Lama, or even saying that the Dalai Lama is wrong...instead I have heard that DS on many accounts have also advice us the same as the previous Trijang Rinpoche.

Like what beggar said:
"You never heard Gangchen Rinpoche speaking out against the Dalai Lama, but he has become very famous throughout the world for his healing and practices. Even Lama Zopa, who has chosen to not do the practice, has never spoken a bad word against Dorje Shugden practitioners and remains very respectful."
   
I think the line above line is extremely clear and does not need to be checked and analysed deeply... bottom line is we should not hurt our enemies. Instead lets do a self check on ourselves and see how much anger, hatred and attachment we have. Lets not even talk about the Dalai Lama, how many of us when being wronged get defensive immediately?

dondrup

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 08:29:15 PM »
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."

 - Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967


**************************

It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?

Mana


All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.

Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden.  Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru.  We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru.  This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.

If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general? 

If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment.  If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future.  Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.


Big Uncle

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2011, 04:53:30 AM »
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."

 - Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967


**************************

It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?

Mana


All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.

Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden.  Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru.  We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru.  This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.

If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general? 

If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment.  If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future.  Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.

Good point Dondrup! I like what you said and that would mean having the 'Greater Picture' (or what some of us here are talking) is actually  in line with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is saying. Why do I say that? I say that because if Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is asking us Dorje Shugden practitioners not to lose faith in the Dalai Lama, that would mean that we have to take our mind training one step further and that is seeing what the Dalai Lama is doing as ultimately beneficial. In fact, it is not even a theory. Dorje Shugden is made tremendously popular throughout the world and especially China because of the Dalai Lama. It is not hard to see that. However, this does not erase the hardship that Dorje Shugden practitioners face but he is merely accelerating our practice. Practitioners who give up Dorje Shugden practice because of the Dalai Lama will give it up anyway due to a variety of other reasons.

happysun

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 04:11:28 PM »
How we can say who right or wrong??? That is no right or wrong!! No matter how good you are, people still criticize...so if Trijiang Rinpoche is wrong, how about Dalai Lama?? My opnion is don't try to be smart because I believe all high Lamas have their own wisdom to do something can benefit all sentient being. They are enlighten being, we are still suffering in samara; so we have no wisdom to adjust they are right or wrong, so better keep quiet and do something more beneficial. I think this more better than open your mouth and criticize who right or who wrong.....

     

dsiluvu

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2011, 06:31:24 PM »
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."

 - Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967


**************************

It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?

Mana


All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.

Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden.  Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru.  We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru.  This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.

If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general? 

If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment.  If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future.  Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.


This is so true what you say dondrup! Samsara is the planet we live in. There is already enough confusion, distractions and chaos in society, we need not bring this in to our spiritual path. Those who knows better and has the wisdom will realise there is no point in debating. There is much to practice. After all we will be leaving this body, this earth in a short period of time. So why waste it on pointing fingers and figuring out something that will not even help us during the time of death stop us from enlightenment.

I agree that the best is to be clear why we are on our spiritual path... if it for sincere developement, then just focus on Guru devotion. It is as simple as that. Even on a daily basis we cannot successfully eliminate our negative habitualtions and our own suffering... why even bother about what this or that Lama says. Just focus on one Lama, your Lama is good enough. After all are we not here for spiritual development? Surely in the scriptures it did not say we can judge attained beings like HHDL and Kaybje Trijang Rinpoche.

We should not lose the real focus especially during these testing times...

Ensapa

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2011, 01:17:53 PM »
HHDL and Shugden are both enlightened beings. From Shugden's prayers i can infer that as an enlightened being he wouldnt want us to have hateful views against a monk, much so the Dalai Lama.

But thats just my humble opinion.

Helena

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2011, 03:48:13 AM »
Well said words! Clear, Logical and Straight to the Point.

We are all still stuck in samsara. Unless, we are not in any way interested in getting out in samsara, then we should put more effort into our practice and heed the advice of great masters and our teachers.

No need to add more to the cesspool of bad karma and contaminated views or behaviour that will not help us in leaving samsara but bind us here longer. As much as we have outer samsara, we also have our inner samsara. Both of them require just as much work. But it is our inner samsara that will sentence us to a longer stay in the outer samsara.

Focus on practising on ourselves, first and foremost.

All disparaging views are not helpful nor of any use to us right now if we can't use them to get rid of both our inner and outer samsara.

" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."

 - Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967


**************************

It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?

Mana


All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.

Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden.  Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru.  We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru.  This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.

If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general? 

If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment.  If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future.  Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.

Good point Dondrup! I like what you said and that would mean having the 'Greater Picture' (or what some of us here are talking) is actually  in line with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is saying. Why do I say that? I say that because if Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is asking us Dorje Shugden practitioners not to lose faith in the Dalai Lama, that would mean that we have to take our mind training one step further and that is seeing what the Dalai Lama is doing as ultimately beneficial. In fact, it is not even a theory. Dorje Shugden is made tremendously popular throughout the world and especially China because of the Dalai Lama. It is not hard to see that. However, this does not erase the hardship that Dorje Shugden practitioners face but he is merely accelerating our practice. Practitioners who give up Dorje Shugden practice because of the Dalai Lama will give it up anyway due to a variety of other reasons.
Helena

Barzin

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2011, 03:03:12 PM »
This is so enlightening.

Yes, as a beginner to all these.  i was so confused by actions carried out by the His Holiness The Dalai Lama.  Then again, i also don't understand why these reincarnated high attained lama kept such low profile.  And what a shame to divide the Sangha community etc ...

At time i did question the Whys on Dalai Lama's actions, and also why a protector can cause so much stir.  So who's right and who's wrong?  Thankful that I came across this website made me understand more and learning more. Now I realized that His Holiness is not only skillful, it is such noble act for the bigger picture as well as the high lama who would have to go into "hiding" and not getting involved with all the political issues.  Imagine the amount of criticism that one lama had to endure?

Of course we are all in it for a bigger picture.  I was previous sadden by the Sangha community who "take side", and to me it is really not how a Sangha should behave.  Now, it doens't really matter anymore.  Seeing how Dorje Shugden's practice had spread over the time and almost now and then we heard news of Shugden statues and chapels popping out everywhere.

I guess the sky is begin to clear.

thor

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2011, 10:40:04 AM »
If only more people would take the words and advice of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to heart, the Tibetan Buddhist world would be a better place with less conflict, upheaval and unrest. if only more people would listen to Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, junior tutor to His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.

Listen up folks

dsiluvu

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2012, 05:42:17 PM »
This old post brings back so much reminder to us all to keep the faith in both H.H. Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. It is amazing how everything has been foretold by H.H. Trijang Rinpoche in this book in just one simple paragraph he pre-warns us, gives us guidance to protect our minds from falling astray. H.H. Trijang Rinpoche saw all that is going to happen and it is happening right now. It just goes to show how the Enlightened minds works in miraculous way to bring benefit to so so many through skilful means. So it made me realise that all that negative thinking about His Holiness etc...

I do not think it is appropriate because it is not the Dharmic way and how can HHDL be sonsistent in everything about compassion for others and preach about religious harmony in other faiths... but not for Dorje Shugden? That is hypocrisy! And do we really think HHDL is a hypocrite??? Do we really think that HHDL could not have seen the consequences of suffering that will be created... but then stop n think deeper please... a couple of thousand people suffer vs 1billion over benefit from it? Which is better? U do the math. Yes it is like reverse psychology - perhaps it is just so. 

Dorje Shugden practitioners who are not the murderers we are so strongly being accused... we need to show the world literally that practicing Dorje Shugden brings peace of mind, gentleness and compassion and not haters even to our worst enemy.... because what is the motivation at the end of the day? What is it based on; attachment, desire, self-righteousness or to benefit others?

Ensapa

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 08:49:44 AM »
If only more people would take the words and advice of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to heart, the Tibetan Buddhist world would be a better place with less conflict, upheaval and unrest. if only more people would listen to Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, junior tutor to His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.

Listen up folks

I agree totally with thor. Trijang Rinpoche's advice on the ban is very clear and it is really up to us on whether or not we want to follow it. If everyone followed that approach, I am sure that there would be more peace amongst the Buddhist community and people would advance in their Dharma practice. We should hold on to our lineage Gurus yet not develop bitterness towards the Dalai Lama for banning Dorje Shugden. That is a very Buddhist approach, too.

dsiluvu

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2014, 02:43:44 AM »
Stumbling upon this old but powerful discussion again reminds to not sway away from the right motivation while we ASK LOUDLY for Dorje Shugden Ban to be remove, for no discrimination and hatred amongst Tibetans brothers and sisters.

There is already so few Tibetans, even fewer in exile community, they should not be fighting and going against each other. What CTA has done is really destroying their own people yet they are asking the world to hear their cause for a FREE TIBET and HUMAN RIGHTS? They don't even understand what that is... cos if they did they would not do this, instigate hate and violence amongst their own people, creating disharmony.

Saw this latest video online... looks like Tibetans in Tibet have more freedom to speak about Dorje Shugden and do their practice! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204649826187938&set=vb.1303894275&type=2&theater


lotus1

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2014, 10:24:49 AM »
Thank you for bringing up this powerful discussion.

Whether HH Dalai Lama is an enlightened being is not for us to judge.  With all the inconsistent from HH Dalai Lama (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoaoQPbTC6g ), CTA should really think if the reasons on banning Dorje Shugden will affect HH Dalai Lama’s long life and the free Tibetan cause is real. Do they want to follow the ban blindly? If they believe in HH Dalai Lama, they should follow the compassion that he has taught and be compassion to all Dorje Shugden people and not encouraging any death threat or violence or hit list that causing more hatred and disharmony among the Tibetan. Eg : http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/shocking-letter/ & http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/tibetan-leadership-publishes-hit-list/


jamyang_sonam

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche speaks
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2014, 05:52:21 PM »
i believe the previous Trijang Rinpoche clearly state that no matter what happen, be steadfast in our  DS practice and continue to uphold the Ganden tradition and trust in Protector no matter what happens, even if we are practicing Dorje Shugden, we must keep an open mind and not take side. Which means we must not criticize H.H Dalai Lama or either way.

Clearly Trijang Rinpoche knew this will happen, and this statement is to remind us be open but yet be diligent in our practice, there are reason why this ban was enforce, it may be for a bigger cause for the spread of Dorje Shugden. From what we all see today, Dorje Shugden Practice has spread far and wide, many more people has benefited from the practice, eventhough the ban has cause so much suffering to the Tibetan community who practice Dorje Shugden.