Do you think the Dalai Lama's ban is an act of a Mahasiddha?

[rossoneri]

There are always two side of a story in whatever we are going to do or decide. Whether HHTDL intention of imposing the ban of practicing Dorje Shugden is with good intention or not, with so much suffering, lost of life, families were separated and ultimately this ban had created disharmonious among the sangha members between students and their gurus. I really thing it is time for HHTDL seriously consider to lift the ban as soon as possible if His intention is to spread the teaching of the Protector Dorje Shugden are with good motivation and it is the act of a Mahasiddha.

[Matibhadra]

The act of a mahasiddha in this degenerate time would be very much different from the times of Mahasiddha Tilopa, Virupa, Naropa and so on.

While our times are degenerate, a mahasiddha is never degenerate, whereby the evil, degenerate dalai can only be a ”mahasiddha” in the mind of the degenerate people of our times, as exemplified by you.

However, I have to agree with you that the evil dalai, like our times, is very degenerate indeed.

With the current times, humans are more brutal.

Sure, as exemplified by the brutal terrorist dalai, and by people supporting his brutalities, such as you.

The acts of a mahasiddha may require a harsher and brutal methods to tame the minds now.

Are you proposing violence and brutality to deal with the evil terrorist dalai and his minions? Are you proposing that they should be brutally murdered?

Any Buddhist will disagree with your bestial approach. They should be criminally charged, imprisoned, and reeducated, just like any criminal, no matter how brutal they may be.

Your brazen, shameless advocacy of brutal methods is obnoxious and repugnant. You should be summarily banned from this website for your unacceptable advocacy of violence.

By the way, your attempt to justify brutality is very much akin to the Jewish-Christian defense of the bloody actions perpetrated by their evil ”prophets”, as described in their ”bible”.

This shows that your advocacy of violence stems from your Abrahamic barbaric beliefs, which are thoroughly repugnant to Buddhism and Buddhists.

During the times of Virupa, all was needed was an act of miracles to bring people to the dharma!

Je Tsongkhapa said that there is no miracle beyond the Buddha's teaching of dependent arising. This is the firm belief of every single follower of Je Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden practitioner.

But you, together with the evil terrorist dalai, believe in violence and brutal methods, which for you are better than miracles. This shows how degenerate is your mind, just like our times.

It would definitely be possible that whatever HHDL is doing, as harsh it may appear to be is an act of a Mahasiddha.

This is because you, just like Jews, Christians, Muslims and dalaites, and barbarians in general, believe in violence. Your model of ”mahasiddha” is the Jewish mass murdering ”prophet”.

Meanwhile, we Buddhists, and specifically we, followers of Je Tsongkhapa and practitioners of Dorje Shugden, always believe in non-violence. As opposed to you, we thoroughly reject violence and brutality.

However, I can only be 100% sure once this is all over through results.

The only result of brutality, as advocated by you, is suffering in the hell realms. Since you want to get there in order to be 100% sure, good luck. At least there you will enjoy the company of your evil hero, the degenerate terrorist dalai.

Did this ban bring thousands and thousands to Buddhism? Or was this just a meaningless decision? Only time can tell.

Buddhism, as opposed to Christianity and Islam, is not about ”bringing thousand and thousands” through brutality, as you propose.

Christianity and Islam are not better, and actually are much worse, because they did ”bring thousands and thousands” through brutality, as you propose.

Now, if you want to follow the Christian-Muslim path of brutality, please go and join Islamic Takfiri terrorists in Iraq, or the minions of the evil dalai, but do not defile this website and forum with your repugnant advocacy of brutality.

[Matibhadra]

I have yet to attain the wisdom and compassion of a Buddha therefore I cant tell whether HHDL is using his skills like a mahasidha.

Still, it is enough that you use direct perception and reason to know that he is an evil terrorist.

But I do believe that He is an emanation of Chenresig like what my Guru and lineage masters tell me despite what people are saying.

The point is, deep inside your guts you believe in terrorism and terrorists, such as the evil dalai, but you lack the balls to take responsibility for your depraved belief, and thus hide yourself behind what you call ”Guru and lineage masters”, in order to protect your own reputation.

I believe that all these collective sufferings are purification of negative karma and that will lead to ripening of positive karma and merits that will lift the ban and grow into something huge and beneficial for many.

Then, according to you and your ”Gurus and lineage masters”, causing schism within the Sangha, which is the worst among the 5 heinous actions of immediate retribution, is a ”positive karma” which will ripe as ”merits” and be beneficial to many.

If so, according to your ”Gurus and lineage masters”, killing one's own father and mother, killing an arhat, and causing a buddha to bleed, are also ”acts of a Chenrezig” which will ”purify negative karma” and be ”hugely beneficial to many”.

And I do believe in the karma of wrong views, bad speech and thoughts.

You are lying. You believe in terrorism, in violence, in brutality, in murdering, in self-immolations, in racist riots, in social strife and chaos, which is what your hero the evil terrorist promotes, with your fanatic support and perverted admiration.

[Q]

As far as I know, even Rinpochela does not speak ill of Dalai Lama,

”Speaking ill” of the evil dalai is a very difficult task. So evil are his heinous actions that even buddhas would find it difficult to speak them out.

Anyway, there is no need to ”speak ill” of the evil dalai, or of any criminal or terrorist to that effect. Reality, the reality you want to cover, speaks for itself.

Since that is the case, I'm following my teacher's footsteps and not condemn the DL,

Your judgmental, childish mind confounds uncovering reality with ”condemning”. There is no need to ”condemn” anyone, not even the evil dalai. Indeed, it's enough to uncover the reality of his evil actions and character.

Since, however, your judgmental, un-Buddhistic mind is so much into ”condemning”, you yourself cannot refrain from condemning the uncovering of the evil dalai's crimes and character, which shows that you actual motivation is to cover them, as any of his accomplices would.

But that does not mean I don't fight for the ban to be lifted,

Fighting the ban? Why don't you try first to fight your own accomplicity with criminals and their crimes?

but fighting through a method that does not disparage the DL or displease my teacher.

This is because your actual teacher is the evil dalai, and just what you have learnt from him is to cover criminals and their crimes.

Remember, not everyone here are students of GKG.

Does one have to be ”a student of GKG” not to be the accomplice of a criminal, such as the evil dalai?

It should be enough to be a human being with a minimum moral sense.

I do not know what Geshela have thought His students about the DL, but from the way some of you behave it is quite clear that Geshela would outwardly speak ill of DL.

”Geshela” is hardly a topic on this thread. You are only talking about your own unwarranted fantasies and projections.

Forcing people to follow your views,

This is quite hilarious. Please tell the rest of us how is it possible to force anyone to follow one's views on an internet forum.

and calling people idiots for not agreeing with you.

The only one called ”idiot” on this thread was the idiot emperor without clothes of Andersen's fairy tale. If you identified with the gullible character, my apologies.

If there's such lack of tolerance even between Shugden practitioners,

You have just introjected the malicious anti-Shugden discourse of your ”mahasiddha”, the evil dalai, who sees ”intolerance” where there is only free and responsible speech.

you can forget about asking the DL to lift the ban.

Asking anything to a criminal? Why not to give up being his accomplice to start with?

Oh gosh this is truly tiresome

No one in this forum will deny that the actions of the DL have brought about great suffering to a portion of the Tibetan Community (and even to a certain extent, Western Buddhists). But how each person view the DL is our own problem.

Before you call people 'judgmental', look at yourself in the mirror. Your false accusations of me as a follower/supporter of DL is childish and ignorant. Stop being narrow minded, just because people do not wish to call the DL 'evil', 'demon' or whatever, does not make them supporters of DL.

Remember, not everyone here are students of GKG.

Does one have to be ”a student of GKG” not to be the accomplice of a criminal, such as the evil dalai?

It should be enough to be a human being with a minimum moral sense.

Yes exactly my point, not everyone here (whom are DS practitioners) are GKG students, so what's your point?

Geshela is not a topic because you dont want it to be. Well whatever it is, I have nothing bad to talk about Geshela, since I highly value Geshela from day 1. My point is, if we can so conveniently point out how barbaric and idiotic the DL followers are behaving, maybe it's time you guys reflect back on how your behavior will impact Geshela's image (if it matters to you of course).

If you do not feel that being in this forum or having an online presence will influence people of their opinion, then why on earth are you in this forum? Too much free time? Maybe you can use it to reflect and practice Buddhism.

If you're not asking the 'criminal' to lift the ban, then what are your protests about? Too much free time also?

Think before you type, or you will appear like those idiotic pro-dl Tibetans that only reply to Shugden practitioners with statements like 'F YOU' or 'Go to hell' etc, with the only difference being your more extensive use of vocabulary.

Accept the fact that there are Shugden practitioners that do not wish to think ill of the DL. Just as how some Shugden practitioners do not approve of the ISC's protests but don't make a HUGE ISSUE OUT OF IT; well, give the same respect back to them.

You want to talk about fantasies and projections? Well, let me tell you the facts. It does not matter what we think about the DL, we can call him evil, demon whatever, but ultimately the only thing that matters is what the world think about him; and guess what, the world wants to keep their fantasy about this heroic and pure monk. As more tragedies happen, the DL is becoming more famous with his 'peace talks'. Truth be told, if DS had a PR manager, he would say that is one hell of a bad image to build on Shugden practitioners. Sure there are people that would start questioning the truth about the DL, but you can't deny that a majority of these people will not go that far to question the truth, and you damn well know you can't deny that unless of course you're trapped in your own fantasies and projections.

[Matibhadra]

Oh gosh this is truly tiresome

So true. Why don't you rest, and give a rest to the rest of us?

But how each person view the DL is our own problem.

So true. Why then are you concerned with the topic?

Before you call people 'judgmental', look at yourself in the mirror.

No complex of Evil Queen here. Anyway, if you find me ”judgmental”, please tell me when and why, instead of just blabbering generic accusations.

Your false accusations of me as a follower/supporter of DL is childish and ignorant.

I don't remember having ever accused you of anything. Please substantiate your claims or they will be ignored.

Stop being narrow minded, just because people do not wish to call the DL 'evil', 'demon' or whatever, does not make them supporters of DL.

Actually, I could not care less about what you call or not the evil dalai. I don't care either if you are or not a supporter of the evil dalai. This is anyone's personal problem. I wonder why you bring this topic to a public forum. Maybe you discuss it with your psychiatrist.

Yes exactly my point, not everyone here (whom are DS practitioners) are GKG students, so what's your point?

You quoted it, I assume you can read. But I repeat only once for free: my point is that just because one is not a student of teacher A or B one does not have to behave like a stooge, licking the buttocks of a criminal. But if this is your taste, again, this is just your personal problem.

maybe it's time you guys reflect back on how your behavior will impact Geshela's image (if it matters to you of course).

You are obsessed with this topic of teacher A or B, which exists only in your mind. Maybe you report it to your psychiatrist.

If you do not feel that being in this forum or having an online presence will influence people of their opinion, then why on earth are you in this forum? Too much free time? Maybe you can use it to reflect and practice Buddhism.

Do not become obsessed with ”influencing people”. This is a mundane concern.

If you're not asking the 'criminal' to lift the ban, then what are your protests about? Too much free time also?

Could you please provide a bit of context to your question? Is it still about the Dalai Lama?

Think before you type, or you will appear like those idiotic pro-dl Tibetans that only reply to Shugden practitioners with statements like 'F YOU' or 'Go to hell' etc, with the only difference being your more extensive use of vocabulary.

Do not concern yourself with appearances. This is the mark of the fool.

Accept the fact that there are Shugden practitioners that do not wish to think ill of the DL. Just as how some Shugden practitioners do not approve of the ISC's protests but don't make a HUGE ISSUE OUT OF IT; well, give the same respect back to them.

This is a bit off-topic. The topic here is only whether or not the evil dalai is a mahasiddha, period.

You want to talk about fantasies and projections? [...] you can't deny that unless of course you're trapped in your own fantasies and projections.

Yawn. Talking about fantasies and projections, is the evil dalai still a ”mahasiddha”? Please keep us updated.

[Atishas cook]

i agree with Matibhadra that to publicly state that the False Dalai Lama is a Mahasiddha is to support his evil actions.  some of you have even said this: that his actions will utimately be beneficial, for example.

you must understand how utterly insane that sounds to anyone familiar with the suffering and damage the ban is causing?

if you want to hold that view in private, good luck to you.  but the moment you start publicly discussing it then you become a part of the problem.  you are confusing the public about the issue, sowing division and doubt amongst Shugden practitioners, undermining the power of the protests, and ultimately doing the False Dalai Lama's job for him.

spreading this idea is helping the False DL to destroy the path to liberation for all beings.  i'll take the karma of a speaking a few harsh truths over that karma any day.

[Big Uncle]

i agree with Matibhadra that to publicly state that the False Dalai Lama is a Mahasiddha is to support his evil actions.  some of you have even said this: that his actions will utimately be beneficial, for example.

you must understand how utterly insane that sounds to anyone familiar with the suffering and damage the ban is causing?

if you want to hold that view in private, good luck to you.  but the moment you start publicly discussing it then you become a part of the problem.  you are confusing the public about the issue, sowing division and doubt amongst Shugden practitioners, undermining the power of the protests, and ultimately doing the False Dalai Lama's job for him.

spreading this idea is helping the False DL to destroy the path to liberation for all beings.  i'll take the karma of a speaking a few harsh truths over that karma any day.

You are being dramatic. This is just a forum discussion about the possibility that the Dalai Lama could be a Mahasiddha. Anybody has the right to state their opinion one way or another as long as they have a good sound reasoning behind it and that they are not rude. Please do not make unnecessary Doomsday threats here. The success of the protest does not depend on the threat of a forum discussion. This discussion would never undermine the protests and the protest alone cannot lift the ban. People also need to know the nature of Dorje Shugden and that he is really who Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche says he is. Don't you think?

[Atishas cook]

"People also need to know the nature of Dorje Shugden and that he is really who Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche says he is. Don't you think?"

absolutely - of course.

we're on the same team - we have the same goal.  perhaps, as you say, one discussion on one forum doesn't amount to so much.  but it's not just that, is it?  this is a view which makes MANY people vacillate - and then do nothing practical to oppose and lift the ban.  Geshe Kelsang's students are lucky - he is not under the CTA's power in any way, and neither are they.  apart from a very few brave individuals, it's taken almost twenty years for other Shugden Lamas and practitioners - despite privately supporting SSC, WSS & ISC - to come out publicly and lend their strength to the efforts to oppose the ban.  many still feel unable to do so.  i don't blame them for this; i know they have their reasons.  but at least they and their students could refrain from actively weakening the opposition by spreading this confusing doubt.

doubt is our inner enemy, here.  we need to be confident: Dorje Shugden is the enlightened Wisdom Protector of the Ganden Oral tradition, of Je Tsongkhapa's lineage.  this is the quick path to enlightenment in these degenerate times!  now is the time to dispel false accusations against the innocent!  stand up and speak out!  or at least, lend support tacitly by saying nothing counter-productive.

we are on the same team.  peace and respect,
AC x

[Blueupali]

Dear Atisha's Cook,
  I think I see what you are trying to say about people not saying publically that the Dalai Lama's act is an act of a Mahasidda, as that would confuse people generally, as it would generally require a secret practice of 'everyone is a Buddha."
  It is okay, though, I think in the context of this forum if that is what they really think if they express it, because most people who have joined the forum have some familiarity (and in many cases a lot of familiarity) with Buddhism and with the inner view that many maintain of everyone--- no particular politicians alone--- but everybody.
  I do hear what you are saying though, that if I am explaining this to a non-Buddhist family member or something, that it wouldn't make sense to say well, I see so and so as a Buddha, but teaching backwards etc etc.... because that would just confuse them, as they are not familiar with Buddhist teachings about inner view; like even if I see the Dalai Lama as a Buddha teaching in reverse, outwardly for me, the appropriate thing to do is say his actions are wrong, because that is the teaching I think he is trying to give us, would he be a Buddha.

[Atishas cook]

"even if I see the Dalai Lama as a Buddha teaching in reverse, outwardly for me, the appropriate thing to do is say his actions are wrong, because that is the teaching I think he is trying to give us, would he be a Buddha."

yup.

[Q]

Oh gosh this is truly tiresome

So true. Why don't you rest, and give a rest to the rest of us?

But how each person view the DL is our own problem.

So true. Why then are you concerned with the topic?

Before you call people 'judgmental', look at yourself in the mirror.

No complex of Evil Queen here. Anyway, if you find me ”judgmental”, please tell me when and why, instead of just blabbering generic accusations.

Your false accusations of me as a follower/supporter of DL is childish and ignorant.

I don't remember having ever accused you of anything. Please substantiate your claims or they will be ignored.

Stop being narrow minded, just because people do not wish to call the DL 'evil', 'demon' or whatever, does not make them supporters of DL.

Actually, I could not care less about what you call or not the evil dalai. I don't care either if you are or not a supporter of the evil dalai. This is anyone's personal problem. I wonder why you bring this topic to a public forum. Maybe you discuss it with your psychiatrist.

Yes exactly my point, not everyone here (whom are DS practitioners) are GKG students, so what's your point?

You quoted it, I assume you can read. But I repeat only once for free: my point is that just because one is not a student of teacher A or B one does not have to behave like a stooge, licking the buttocks of a criminal. But if this is your taste, again, this is just your personal problem.

maybe it's time you guys reflect back on how your behavior will impact Geshela's image (if it matters to you of course).

You are obsessed with this topic of teacher A or B, which exists only in your mind. Maybe you report it to your psychiatrist.

If you do not feel that being in this forum or having an online presence will influence people of their opinion, then why on earth are you in this forum? Too much free time? Maybe you can use it to reflect and practice Buddhism.

Do not become obsessed with ”influencing people”. This is a mundane concern.

If you're not asking the 'criminal' to lift the ban, then what are your protests about? Too much free time also?

Could you please provide a bit of context to your question? Is it still about the Dalai Lama?

Think before you type, or you will appear like those idiotic pro-dl Tibetans that only reply to Shugden practitioners with statements like 'F YOU' or 'Go to hell' etc, with the only difference being your more extensive use of vocabulary.

Do not concern yourself with appearances. This is the mark of the fool.

Accept the fact that there are Shugden practitioners that do not wish to think ill of the DL. Just as how some Shugden practitioners do not approve of the ISC's protests but don't make a HUGE ISSUE OUT OF IT; well, give the same respect back to them.

This is a bit off-topic. The topic here is only whether or not the evil dalai is a mahasiddha, period.

You want to talk about fantasies and projections? [...] you can't deny that unless of course you're trapped in your own fantasies and projections.

Yawn. Talking about fantasies and projections, is the evil dalai still a ”mahasiddha”? Please keep us updated.

LOL! Well you just quoted my last message to you, I don't troll. Good luck.

@MODERATOR: I demand you look into this person's account. I do not think he/she(?) is here to learn or debate logically, and is obviously causing disharmony in this forum. Go back on all 7 pages of this post and see them trolling the people that thinks DL is a Mahasiddha. As far as I understand, this forum does not welcome trolls. Thanks

[Matibhadra]

LOL! Well you just quoted my last message to you, I don't troll. Good luck.

Since this is precisely what you have just done, this means that you have short-circuited. Maybe a result of praying too much to the evil dalai. Good luck to you too, anyway.

@MODERATOR: I demand you look into this person's account. I do not think he/she(?) is here to learn or debate logically, and is obviously causing disharmony in this forum. Go back on all 7 pages of this post and see them trolling the people that thinks DL is a Mahasiddha. As far as I understand, this forum does not welcome trolls. Thanks

What a powerful argument. You should have used it before. I'm almost convinced that the evil dalai is indeed a mahasiddha. Just in case he is not, please report to the moderator.

[psylotripitaka]

Q,

Though some of Matibhadra's language specifically attacking individuals may seem misplaced, they make many important points, and since the main point of life is to increase realization, I contend that having someone here that tests our patience with some slight insult is wonderful. How kind Matibhadra is to clarify important things while poking at our worldly concerns. Thank you Matibhadra.

[X]

HH The Dalai Lama is definitely a Mahasiddha. As he is an enlightened being, someone who have attainments, and someone who is like a Buddha. I dare not to doubt HH The Dalai Lama.  What I heard from a lot of people is that this is a way of HH The Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden working together to spread the holy Dharma, to achieve something big. Sometimes you just need to sacrifice something to achieve something even bigger. That is how I see it. May all the things that have to be achieved be achieved faster so that all the Tibetan and Monks do not have to suffer anymore.

[vajratruth]

Though some of Matibhadra's language specifically attacking individuals may seem misplaced, they make many important points, and since the main point of life is to increase realization, I contend that having someone here that tests our patience with some slight insult is wonderful. How kind Matibhadra is to clarify important things while poking at our worldly concerns. Thank you Matibhadra.

Dear Matibhadra,

While you are most welcome on this forum and you bring about quite a lively discussion on important matters, I would ask you to kindly be more skillful when addressing other participants. Given your mastery in debating your points, I would say that it would not be difficult for you to skew your opinions differently.

Thank you.