Author Topic: Is your Guru the real McCoy?  (Read 4628 times)

Positive Change

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Is your Guru the real McCoy?
« on: July 29, 2012, 11:18:41 AM »
This is an interesting article I found which struck a cord here in the West because of the outrageous abuses and exploitation by gurus, many self-proclaimed and completely misguided. Dare to take the test? ;)

This is not meant to disrespect anyone... It is merely an illustration of how a Guru should be. I am sure for those of us here who have a Guru, would inevitably pass the test!

Take the test!

If seven or more of the following describes your guru or spiritual teacher, then unfortunately he or she may not be be as enlightened or good for your soul as you would like to believe:

1. States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers.

2. Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teaching; they do not take kindly to ordinary unenlightened individuals questioning them. They or their organisations will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans.

3. Acts omnipotently with no accountability: Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. Unjust or outrageous behaviour by the guru is passed off as what is needed to help the followers grow (how kind). These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students. A real master respects your will even if he or she understands that your particular decisions may not be in your interest, and he or she will act accountably to an ethical code of conduct.

4. Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it: It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points in the same way that the scholars in the middle ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Any fool can talk about the end goal because what is said is irrefutable to most of your listeners. What is skillful is guiding those listeners to having awakening within themselves. The real teacher focuses on the path and strictly avoids any talk on enlightenment.

5. Does not practice what is preached: Contrary to spiritual myth, you don't reach a point of realization whereby you can then start acting mindlessly. If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way, at least most of the time, showing suitable regret for any lapses). If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live in austere conditions, so should he.

6. Takes the credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: The fact is that meditation and guided visualisation work. Anyone doing them will experience major changes, benefits and realizations. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques so that she has something unique to attract followers. And she will hijack the effects of meditation as the guru's blessing rather than each individuals natural potential. Often the students or followers are forbidden from divulging the techniques to maintain a sort of intellectual property right, usually under the guise of needing the technique to be taught correctly.

7. Specifically gives satsang or darshan when it is not part of his culture: Darshan is when the disciples or students of a master line up and to pass their master, who is usually seated, with either a bow or traditionally kissing their feet (yes it does happen). In the East, this is part of their culture and a normal thing to do to show respect and reverence (even children will kiss the feet of their fathers). However, here in the West, such copycat behaviour is a strong indication that the guru is acting a role. Satsang, on the other hand, means literally "the company of the Truth". In a deeper sense it is an affirmation of the Guru-Disciple relationship in Eastern traditions. But some Western gurus will use this terminology because they are playing a role.

8. Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being wealthy. But when that luxury turns to unnecessary opulence using funds that were not explicity donated for that purpose then you are probably dealing with a false guru. Money is collected from followers usually in the form of donations, and those donations are given as an act of love, appreciation and to help spread the influence of the master. However, a genuine master is more likely to use such wealth to lessen the suffering in this world, not to buy another yacht, private jet or Rolls Royce.

9. Encourages or permits adoration from his followers: Avoid any group that focuses on the "master" themselves rather than the teachings or spiritual practices. This will be a hindrance to your self-realisation for your focus will be drawn outside of yourself, and usually indicates that there is not a lot more on offer than guru worship.

10. Presents himself or herself overly fashionably and glamorously: Beware of masters who present glamour photographs of themselves and dress overly fashionably (whilst proclaiming that they have no ego and leading ego-death retreats). Yes it does happen!

11. Demands love and devotion from their students: Keep clear of any master who demands love and devotion. One very well known Western guru stated, "Anyone who loves me is guaranteed enlightenment"! Real love and devotion is earned over time when we begin to really know the whole person and not their public image.

12. Speaks with an Indian accent or vernacular when he is in fact a Westerner: Not sure how much this happens now but there are some high profile Western gurus who have (or had) Indian accents, mannerisms and vernacular. Unless they have genuinely spent considerable time in other cultures, they are probably playing out a role.

13. Runs expensive miracle workshops and courses: You are unlikely to reach enlightenment after a few weekend workshops with cheesy titles. In our society of "must have now", we want to be able to purchase spiritual development with minimal fuss. Also, avoid meaningless accreditation — it is often used merely to encourage followers to do more courses.

14. Takes sexual advantage of his or her followers: This happens much more than many believe. It is not being prudish to include this one because when a follower falls under the spell of a guru he or she is likely to do anything for the Chosen One. It is only afterwards that it may dawn on the follower that his or her openness has been used and abused. This can be very psychologically scarring.

15. Flatters you and treats you as very special: Sure we are all special in some ways, but this is one of the things that a false guru may do to hook a potential follower or to get a current follower to do a particular task. Nothing can be more intoxicating to the ego than to be selected by the master or leader (or any high profile person). A real master will stand back and allow you to make your decision whether to accept his or her teachings without trying to influence the process.

16. Talks bollocks: It is surprising what a person will listen to when he or she is devoted to the speaker. It is always a good idea to get hold of a written transcript of what has been said and really read the message. Then tell an open-minded friend who is not a follower what their opinion is purely on the strength of the words. You will soon find out whether there is any real substance to the teacher's message, or whether you are merely being drawn in by the charisma of the messenger.

17. Overly relies on slick presentation: Slick presentation can often mask poor content, and so it is important for you to look past the lovely music and video shows at the actual message. The slicker the presentation, the harder it is to see what exactly the teaching is.

18. Gives him or herself outrageous titles: Not satisfied by being "merely" an enlightened being, many false gurus give themselves titles (or allow their followers to do so) to indicate that they are literally God-Incarnate, the reincarnation of the Buddha or Christ, or THE chosen one. Some continually change their names, to keep pace with their burgeoning egos.

19. Runs abundance workshops: A guru or master is there to help us find an authentic life. This is nothing to do with becoming more successful at work or making more money, although this may or may not follow from being more authentic. There is nothing wrong with abundance weekends, but if we mistake spirituality for increased business success, then we are guilty of spiritual materialism and we find ourselves deeper in the illusion. (The Japanese say that the Gods laugh at those who pray for money.)

20. Is not interested in you personally: If a teacher or guru does not have time to interact with you personally, then you may as well read his teaching from a book, because merely being in his presence doesn't help you find realization inside you. You may model some of his spiritual characteristics, but that often only places you deeper in illusion.

21. Allows his followers to set up a hierarchy of access: A guru must be accessible. If he is not, or if he allows his followers to block your access, then he is playing the role of a king and not a spiritual guide. A guru is only useful to the process of awakening if you can directly interact with him. With the false guru, it is often the case of the more you donate the greater your access.

22. Makes false claims of lineage: Many mistakenly believe that realisation can only happen under the guidance of a realized master. In this belief system, gurus are only authentic when they come from a line or lineage of realized gurus. Desperate not to be left out, some gurus claim a false lineage of enlightened masters to bolster their authority to teach. Another pseudo form of "lineage" is to recount a miracle that once happened to them (maybe they cured themselves of some disease or God spoke to them personally) which infers that they are "chosen" and therefore have the authority to set themselves up as teachers and gurus.

23. Presents themselves as non-profit whilst raking in the millions: Often, the false prophet will present her teachings for free, whilst strongly encouraging her devotees to make large donations. In this way she can appear above money considerations, whilst maintaining her greed and opulence.

24. Collects a large band of angry ex-followers: This is an indication that something is seriously wrong. If she has used kindness and love in her interactions with her students, and has discouraged them from projecting denied spiritual characteristics onto the guru (rather than encouraging their integration into the self), then it is extremely unlikely that there would be more than a few disheartened ex's. Many might drift away and feel they have wasted their time, but they are only likely to have the great anger if they have put their teacher on a pedestal, given him their power, and later realized that he was never worthy of such adoration. Contrary to what some believe, it is actually the teacher's responsibility to strongly discourage students from putting them on pedestals, for this is counterproductive to finding realisation inside.

25. Uses pseudo-technology: Many false prophets and organisations base themselves around pseudo-technology in the effort to appear scientific — special meters, communication devices (do you really expect the aliens to use a mobile?) and energy clearing instruments and pendants that involve crystals and copper wire. Once again, this is to distract the unwary from the poor quality of the actual teaching.

26. Acts like a complete paranoid mad person: If your Precious One acts like a complete paranoid schizophrenic or psychotic then he or she probably is. Run! Remember that there is no such thing as "crazy wisdom"—wisdom is the art of being balanced. However charismatic they may be, and sane between moments of madness, you WILL be damaged by them.

Ensapa

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Re: Is your Guru the real McCoy?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 11:54:42 AM »
ooh! articles like these are so silly that it brings out the Simon Cowell in me because they are just so...unsmart and shows the lack of exposure and knowledge of the author. I know it's not you tho.

This is an interesting article I found which struck a cord here in the West because of the outrageous abuses and exploitation by gurus, many self-proclaimed and completely misguided. Dare to take the test? ;)
Sometimes, people like these strike me as dogs who become very bitter and angry of people because they were abused by people because the way that they react to the whole Guru thing is of exactly the same nature. Very, very dumb way to handle trauma...sad to say.

This is not meant to disrespect anyone... It is merely an illustration of how a Guru should be. I am sure for those of us here who have a Guru, would inevitably pass the test!

Take the test!

If seven or more of the following describes your guru or spiritual teacher, then unfortunately he or she may not be be as enlightened or good for your soul as you would like to believe:

1. States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers.
This one is correct, tho.

2. Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teaching; they do not take kindly to ordinary unenlightened individuals questioning them. They or their organisations will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans.
What if the teacher knows that people criticising him/her will generate a lot of negative karma and therefore stops it? hmm?

3. Acts omnipotently with no accountability: Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. Unjust or outrageous behaviour by the guru is passed off as what is needed to help the followers grow (how kind). These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students. A real master respects your will even if he or she understands that your particular decisions may not be in your interest, and he or she will act accountably to an ethical code of conduct.
By this definition, Tilopa and Marpa are...*gasp* not real Gurus?!?! hear that Kagyu?

4. Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it: It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points in the same way that the scholars in the middle ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Any fool can talk about the end goal because what is said is irrefutable to most of your listeners. What is skillful is guiding those listeners to having awakening within themselves. The real teacher focuses on the path and strictly avoids any talk on enlightenment.
So you mean the real teachers focus on the stick and not the carrot? So..the Buddha is not a real teacher?! He talks about Nivarna and Enlightenment all the time!

5. Does not practice what is preached: Contrary to spiritual myth, you don't reach a point of realization whereby you can then start acting mindlessly. If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way, at least most of the time, showing suitable regret for any lapses). If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live in austere conditions, so should he.
What if the teacher does, just not to our limited viewpoint?

6. Takes the credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: The fact is that meditation and guided visualisation work. Anyone doing them will experience major changes, benefits and realizations. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques so that she has something unique to attract followers. And she will hijack the effects of meditation as the guru's blessing rather than each individuals natural potential. Often the students or followers are forbidden from divulging the techniques to maintain a sort of intellectual property right, usually under the guise of needing the technique to be taught correctly.
If the Guru is teaching a tantric meditation, the student needs the Guru's blessings AND is no permitted to divulge the technique. At this point, I am beginning to doubt the author.

7. Specifically gives satsang or darshan when it is not part of his culture: Darshan is when the disciples or students of a master line up and to pass their master, who is usually seated, with either a bow or traditionally kissing their feet (yes it does happen). In the East, this is part of their culture and a normal thing to do to show respect and reverence (even children will kiss the feet of their fathers). However, here in the West, such copycat behaviour is a strong indication that the guru is acting a role. Satsang, on the other hand, means literally "the company of the Truth". In a deeper sense it is an affirmation of the Guru-Disciple relationship in Eastern traditions. But some Western gurus will use this terminology because they are playing a role.
So whats wrong with eastern culture again?

8. Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being wealthy. But when that luxury turns to unnecessary opulence using funds that were not explicity donated for that purpose then you are probably dealing with a false guru. Money is collected from followers usually in the form of donations, and those donations are given as an act of love, appreciation and to help spread the influence of the master. However, a genuine master is more likely to use such wealth to lessen the suffering in this world, not to buy another yacht, private jet or Rolls Royce.
The Dalai Lama has a palace and nice cars and takes first class jet everywhere...so he's not real? oh dear. I suggest the author to do do more research.

9. Encourages or permits adoration from his followers: Avoid any group that focuses on the "master" themselves rather than the teachings or spiritual practices. This will be a hindrance to your self-realisation for your focus will be drawn outside of yourself, and usually indicates that there is not a lot more on offer than guru worship.
yeah but on the contrary, many teachers themselves of the past gained attainments through adoring or worshipping from their followers..so is it wrong too?

10. Presents himself or herself overly fashionably and glamorously: Beware of masters who present glamour photographs of themselves and dress overly fashionably (whilst proclaiming that they have no ego and leading ego-death retreats). Yes it does happen!
So all masters should appear in rags? There are many masters who appear in grand robes such as Sakya Trinzin. How?

11. Demands love and devotion from their students: Keep clear of any master who demands love and devotion. One very well known Western guru stated, "Anyone who loves me is guaranteed enlightenment"! Real love and devotion is earned over time when we begin to really know the whole person and not their public image.
The first part is a bit odd, but the second part is how real Guru devotion comes about.

12. Speaks with an Indian accent or vernacular when he is in fact a Westerner: Not sure how much this happens now but there are some high profile Western gurus who have (or had) Indian accents, mannerisms and vernacular. Unless they have genuinely spent considerable time in other cultures, they are probably playing out a role.
No comment on this. Probably right.

13. Runs expensive miracle workshops and courses: You are unlikely to reach enlightenment after a few weekend workshops with cheesy titles. In our society of "must have now", we want to be able to purchase spiritual development with minimal fuss. Also, avoid meaningless accreditation — it is often used merely to encourage followers to do more courses.
Many genuine masters do this too but in the form of initiations where students are required to pay a fee for the offerings. how do you explain that?

14. Takes sexual advantage of his or her followers: This happens much more than many believe. It is not being prudish to include this one because when a follower falls under the spell of a guru he or she is likely to do anything for the Chosen One. It is only afterwards that it may dawn on the follower that his or her openness has been used and abused. This can be very psychologically scarring.
If a Guru asks for sex, and you know the tradition he comes from permits that, then blame yourself for not doing research. Why is it the Guru's fault?

15. Flatters you and treats you as very special: Sure we are all special in some ways, but this is one of the things that a false guru may do to hook a potential follower or to get a current follower to do a particular task. Nothing can be more intoxicating to the ego than to be selected by the master or leader (or any high profile person). A real master will stand back and allow you to make your decision whether to accept his or her teachings without trying to influence the process.
Many real Buddhist masters flatter their disciples with wisdom teachings anyway instead of giving "hard" teachings that will break down their ego. So?

16. Talks bollocks: It is surprising what a person will listen to when he or she is devoted to the speaker. It is always a good idea to get hold of a written transcript of what has been said and really read the message. Then tell an open-minded friend who is not a follower what their opinion is purely on the strength of the words. You will soon find out whether there is any real substance to the teacher's message, or whether you are merely being drawn in by the charisma of the messenger.
Bollocks are very subjective. Enough said. Solution: get second opinion from seniors.

17. Overly relies on slick presentation: Slick presentation can often mask poor content, and so it is important for you to look past the lovely music and video shows at the actual message. The slicker the presentation, the harder it is to see what exactly the teaching is.
Yeah, so every Lama should teach  by coughing every 10 words to reflect their genuineness? what is wrong with some Gurus being more eloquent than the others?

18. Gives him or herself outrageous titles: Not satisfied by being "merely" an enlightened being, many false gurus give themselves titles (or allow their followers to do so) to indicate that they are literally God-Incarnate, the reincarnation of the Buddha or Christ, or THE chosen one. Some continually change their names, to keep pace with their burgeoning egos.
This is true.

19. Runs abundance workshops: A guru or master is there to help us find an authentic life. This is nothing to do with becoming more successful at work or making more money, although this may or may not follow from being more authentic. There is nothing wrong with abundance weekends, but if we mistake spirituality for increased business success, then we are guilty of spiritual materialism and we find ourselves deeper in the illusion. (The Japanese say that the Gods laugh at those who pray for money.)
So you mean every tibetan center who has Dzambala pujas are...not real! Omg!

20. Is not interested in you personally: If a teacher or guru does not have time to interact with you personally, then you may as well read his teaching from a book, because merely being in his presence doesn't help you find realization inside you. You may model some of his spiritual characteristics, but that often only places you deeper in illusion.
Can this be said about the many students of the Dalai Lama who does not even see him personally but yet count them as his disciples?

21. Allows his followers to set up a hierarchy of access: A guru must be accessible. If he is not, or if he allows his followers to block your access, then he is playing the role of a king and not a spiritual guide. A guru is only useful to the process of awakening if you can directly interact with him. With the false guru, it is often the case of the more you donate the greater your access.
And open the Guru to stalkers and dangerous people? A sincere student will work their way up to their Guru via sincerity, that is if their Guru is a valid one.

22. Makes false claims of lineage: Many mistakenly believe that realisation can only happen under the guidance of a realized master. In this belief system, gurus are only authentic when they come from a line or lineage of realized gurus. Desperate not to be left out, some gurus claim a false lineage of enlightened masters to bolster their authority to teach. Another pseudo form of "lineage" is to recount a miracle that once happened to them (maybe they cured themselves of some disease or God spoke to them personally) which infers that they are "chosen" and therefore have the authority to set themselves up as teachers and gurus.
This is true

23. Presents themselves as non-profit whilst raking in the millions: Often, the false prophet will present her teachings for free, whilst strongly encouraging her devotees to make large donations. In this way she can appear above money considerations, whilst maintaining her greed and opulence.
What does she do with the money?

24. Collects a large band of angry ex-followers: This is an indication that something is seriously wrong. If she has used kindness and love in her interactions with her students, and has discouraged them from projecting denied spiritual characteristics onto the guru (rather than encouraging their integration into the self), then it is extremely unlikely that there would be more than a few disheartened ex's. Many might drift away and feel they have wasted their time, but they are only likely to have the great anger if they have put their teacher on a pedestal, given him their power, and later realized that he was never worthy of such adoration. Contrary to what some believe, it is actually the teacher's responsibility to strongly discourage students from putting them on pedestals, for this is counterproductive to finding realisation inside.
the Dalai Lama himself has detractors, so...why are we at this page?\

25. Uses pseudo-technology: Many false prophets and organisations base themselves around pseudo-technology in the effort to appear scientific — special meters, communication devices (do you really expect the aliens to use a mobile?) and energy clearing instruments and pendants that involve crystals and copper wire. Once again, this is to distract the unwary from the poor quality of the actual teaching.
???? i think scientology is that way.

26. Acts like a complete paranoid mad person: If your Precious One acts like a complete paranoid schizophrenic or psychotic then he or she probably is. Run! Remember that there is no such thing as "crazy wisdom"—wisdom is the art of being balanced. However charismatic they may be, and sane between moments of madness, you WILL be damaged by them.
sooo........the 84 mahasiddhas, the mad yogi of kham, drukpa kunley etc are all....fake...NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Of the 26 Points, only a few are real criterias. I also notice that the author uses the feminine pronoun of her instead him he. Is he a bitter student of a teacher? The Bitter Student Syndrome can be quite an amusing one to watch. Most of them end up like the author of this article and effectively and will most probably, give up Buddhism altogether. Why cant they learn to heal without doing things like these?

Vajraprotector

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Re: Is your Guru the real McCoy?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 12:06:18 PM »
Thank you for these guidelines, however, I do want to point out that some methods can be employed by teachers due to skillful means, such as points 9, 11, 26 an even 14! However, this is quite easy to check out. If your teacher is constantly demanding 14 and does it with everyone, then I don't think it's skillful means  :P! Skillful means applies to using it to certain students who needs certain methods to tame their monkey mind.

Also, we cannot discount great masters/ mahasiddhas like Lama Yeshe (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1318.0) and the master whose name is synonymous with Crazy Wisdom, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. These can be seen through the many
thousands of  students around the world they brought to the Dharma, and also their huge organisations that are acknowledged by the 'real McCoy' masters & monasteries.

Also, Vajrayana is not the only school that has 'crazy wisdom'. For example, Han-shan, the 9th century Taoist and Zen poet, herbalist and mountain recluse is famous for laughing hysterically when people would try to talk with him about Zen. Master Ikkyu, a 15th century Zen master, famed for the crazy-wisdom of sporting a skeleton around town. There's also the story of Mulla Nasruddin, the holy fool whose unreasonable behavior reflect the deepest truths that is one of the best teachings stories amongst the Sufi. In Christianity, we have the blessed St Isadora, a sterling example of a female exponent of crazy wisdom.

Having said that, it is good that we check a teacher out before taking refuge nor relying on this teacher, because you will be stuck with this teacher for a long time!!!!

Positive Change

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Re: Is your Guru the real McCoy?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 02:09:36 PM »
Quote
Thank you for these guidelines, however, I do want to point out that some methods can be employed by teachers due to skillful means, such as points 9, 11, 26 an even 14! However, this is quite easy to check out. If your teacher is constantly demanding 14 and does it with everyone, then I don't think it's skillful means  ! Skillful means applies to using it to certain students who needs certain methods to tame their monkey mind.

Also, we cannot discount great masters/ mahasiddhas like Lama Yeshe (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1318.0) and the master whose name is synonymous with Crazy Wisdom, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. These can be seen through the many
thousands of  students around the world they brought to the Dharma, and also their huge organisations that are acknowledged by the 'real McCoy' masters & monasteries.

Also, Vajrayana is not the only school that has 'crazy wisdom'. For example, Han-shan, the 9th century Taoist and Zen poet, herbalist and mountain recluse is famous for laughing hysterically when people would try to talk with him about Zen. Master Ikkyu, a 15th century Zen master, famed for the crazy-wisdom of sporting a skeleton around town. There's also the story of Mulla Nasruddin, the holy fool whose unreasonable behavior reflect the deepest truths that is one of the best teachings stories amongst the Sufi. In Christianity, we have the blessed St Isadora, a sterling example of a female exponent of crazy wisdom.

Having said that, it is good that we check a teacher out before taking refuge nor relying on this teacher, because you will be stuck with this teacher for a long time!!!!


Very true what you have said here. The reason why I posted this was to have one reflect on the qualities of one's Guru... At the end of the day, we need to certainly check any Guru out before we even begin to contemplate taking refuge... It applies to other mundane things in our lives... we often choose carefully before deciding, what more our Guru from whom we receive our greatest lessons in life.

The importance of the guru-disciple relationship

This relationship is very important, but its many facets are often misunderstood and this leads to complications, especially within Buddhist organizations where 'group think' and peer pressure are too strong. Some of the most balanced writing I've seen on the subject is by Alex Berzin. You can read immediate writings with the following link:

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/

and this next link is to his book Wise Teacher, Wise Student: Tibetan approaches to a healthy relationship.

http://www.snowlionpub.com/search.php?is

When we have studied the paths of sutra and tantra, and especially trained in meditation, we understand how important it is for there to be a teacher we can rely upon, especially in the later stages of training such as generation and completion stages.

Berzin has some good answers to your questions.

What I understand after many years of relationships with teachers is that the two most important things, aside from gratitude and respect obviously, is to:

1) Always use Dharma to check and transform the appearance of the Lama's actions.
2) Genuinely train in meditation.

Without those two, it is easy to become a groupy so to speak, be extreme in our views and actions, and completely misunderstand how our own inner relationship with the Lama is functioning for us. We need to be careful, that is why checking the Lama in the mirror of Dharma, and genuinely meditating solves many issues that may arise.

You can read alot of detail about reliance on a spiritual teacher in Lamrim commentaries such as Lamrim Chenmo, Joyful Path of Good Fortune, Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand and so on, but these texts give a very strict traditional explanation with mostly the same outlines and commentary. Many people have misunderstanding about the practicalities of the relationship from sticking to these commentaries. That is why I recommend Berzin's book because he gives a general discourse like having a practical conversation, and he hits the nail on the head with alot of the issues that have plagued modern Buddhist practitioners.

It is important for practitioners to realize that there are often different teachers along our journey who will have very specific functions for us. We may regard them all as the same in essence, but practically they will each function in their own way.


Ensapa

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Re: Is your Guru the real McCoy?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 07:11:27 AM »
To me, no matter what happens, i will still prefer the traditional guidelines on how to choose a Guru: the 50 verses of Guru devotion. Why? Because these guidelines were written by someone who have Guru devotion, and who has achieved enlightenment that everyone can see through Guru devotion and their study and practice. i would not really want to read about guidelines that are written by people who would not know much about Guru devotion, much less get any results from their Dharma practice.

It's the internet, anyone can write anything they want, but whether or not they are credible is a different story.