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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by Ringo Starr on Today at 07:40:50 AM »
I have been following the main line of reasoning in this post and wonder if it is not all part of illusory play too (I mean there is the karmic side which has to be fulfilled and there is also the illusory play side which will show its results)

1. If is was HH Dalai Lama who picked out the 103rd Gaden Tripa, and before that the same as Abbott of Gyuto Tantric College, and it turned out this way, so HH Dalai Lama is not attained enough to pick the right candidate?

2. If HH Dalai Lama is not attained and has committed such troublesome demerits, why has he lived so long and healthy and is predicting many more years to come?

BTW, I saw that there were auspicious rainbows at the 103rd's cremation.
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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by michaela on Today at 07:10:39 AM »
Dharma Defender raised important points about the 103rd Gaden Tripa Lobsang Tenzin. It is interesting that this person who did not believe in Dorje Shugden Gyenze, had requested and received help and sponsorship from a Dorje Shugden lama, Tsem Rinpoche, for many years. But after the ban on Dorje Shugden practice was enforced, the 103rd Gaden Tripa Lobsang Tenzin did not even promote tolerance among the Gelug practitioners that include Dorje Shugden followers. The 103rd Gaden Tripa Lobsang Tenzin had the right to not believe in Dorje Shugden, but at least as a spiritual leader, he should have discouraged discrimination towards Dorje Shugden practitioners.

The fact that the 103rd Gaden Tripa Lobsang Tenzin passed away after only several months since he was enthroned as Gaden Tripa, is a testament of his attainment and merits. He did not have control over his lifespan and his death. He did not have what it takes (i.e., merits and attainments) to be the representative of Lama Tsongkhapa on earth. I hope the next Gaden Tripa would be someone that not only has the intellectual understanding of Dharma, but also spiritually attained and can complete his tenure successfully.
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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by Ringo Starr on Today at 06:44:58 AM »
Tsem Monastery is not in Lhasa area, it is in Yarra. Tsemcholing is actually another monastery that belong to a very powerful incarnation line that used to serve as one of the regents of Tibet. So, I think you got your info mixed up. Furthermore, the shape of the stupa you pointed out is quite common in Tibet. You would see it almost everywhere in the Tibetan world.

Thank you Big Uncle for pointing that out. Yes it doesn't make sense either for the monastery to be in Lhasa for it took the late 103rd Gaden Tripa 3 months to trek from Tsem Monastery to Lhasa. Thank you.

The Tsem monastery referred to must be the Yagra Tsem monastery.

Yagra Tsem monastery's alumni include, from what I have found on the www:-

the late 103rd Gaden Tripa;

H.E. Tsem Rinpoche's previous incarnation Gedun Nyedrak;

Khensur Jampa Yeshe Rinpoche who is pictured together with Tsem Rinpoche and the late 103rd Gaden Tripa in Tsem Ladrang in DharmaDefender's post above;

Possibly Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen who is also from Kham and likely the 103rd's warden in Tsem monastery.

Hence there are many karmic links via Tsem monastery amongst these high lamas.
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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by AshRao on April 27, 2017, 11:01:04 PM »
DharmaDefender's post does indeed raise some interesting points about the late 103rd Gaden Tripa, but more than that, also about the state of affairs surrounding the appointment of the highest position within the Gelugpa hierarchy. Someone who can so blatantly tell someone else that what they are practicing is wrong, yet take funds to build his house, and then completely ignore the person who helped him, does not sound like the qualities a leader of such stature should have. For example, even the Dalai Lama doesn't condemn other religions, well...apart from the Holy Protector. Maybe that's a bad example.

In any case, in the modern world of religious pluralism, harmony, faith, and acceptance is what is need for the world to become the utopia it can be if we give it a try. An example such as this, would not inspire others to be the best they can in a world full of so much difference. Hindus and Muslims can live side by side, so why can't those who practice the Holy Protector and those who do not.

In the India the various traditions, sects and sub-sects all have their own version of Gaden Tripa, and their own thrones. Just like the various other Tibetan Buddhist traditions also have their own heads and thrones of their tradition. Some who sit on the throne are worthy of the position, others are not. And the differences between the qualities of these leaders, are clear for all to see. However, one thing is for certain. In the case where those that sit on the throne do not uphold their particular traditions and the teachings and practices, that particular tradition doesn't seem to flourish. No one is impressed by them, no one is inspired. On the other hand, those who are leaders with qualities worthy of such positions, make the tradition flourish. There have been some comments previously as to the specific qualifications it is said that a Gaden Tripa must have, and these are somewhat new to me, but do match my own experience of those who lead other traditions.

My teacher has always maintained that real masters are able to control their prana and chakras, so that they can heal themselves of any disease, and overcome any physical ailments. This is a sign of the siddhis that have gained from intense practice. In this regards i mean no disrespect, but if the 103rd Gaden Tripa was a real master, why did he not simply engage in prana meditation and heal himself of his disease? Wouldn't this have been even more of an inspiration for those in the tradition, and increase people's faith in the teachings?

 
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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by Gabby Potter on April 27, 2017, 10:24:02 PM »
This is very sad, his tenure as the Gaden Tripa was a very short one. I heard that it's very inauspicious for someone like the Gaden Tripa to pass away during their tenure, especially one who has only been on the throne for 4 months. I wonder how will this make the others feel... To sit on such a huge throne, it requires a tremendous amount of merits to sustain that; If one does not have enough merits and they further criticize others' practice/ religion such as Dorje Shugden, he/ she collects demerits.

Dorje Shugden is an enlightened Buddha who's an emanation of Manjushri, can you imagine the amount of demerits one collects for criticizing Manjushri himself? People can argue all they want, they can say that Dorje Shugden is a spirit and therefore he took his revenge on the Gaden Tripa. But shouldn't a monk with vows intact be protected from spirit disturbances?  A monk/ nun who does their practices correctly and genuinely and keep their vows, even the robes that they wear can ward off spirits. So IF Dorje Shugden is a spirit (which he's not), why was he able to 'harm' the Gaden Tripa? Don't you think there's something wrong there?
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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by Rowntree on April 27, 2017, 10:04:49 PM »
There are so much information to be digested in this post:
  • 103rd Gaden Tripa's early death
  • Tsem monastery
  • Relationship between 103rd Gaden Tripa and HE Tsem Tulku
  • Merits required for such a high post as Gaden Tripa
  • Qualities of the 103rd Gaden Tripa

Looking at the list of the previous Gaden Tripa, I noticed that they are all Dorje Shugden practitioners or never made negative comments about Dorje Shugden and break samaya. A monk who breaks own samaya definitely cannot be a representative of the Buddha's teachings, let alone being the Gaden Tripa. Earlier, I browsed through the two albums on the 103rd Gaden Tripa's Facebook Fanpage, I can see that he didn't looked good since his tenure as the Sharpa Choeje. I suspect he was already sick then and when his ascended to the Gaden throne, his karma took over and became extremely sick very quickly and eventually passed away.

A friend who had learned under him for few years told me things changed when he was chosen as a Sharpa Choeje, and obviously very into the power and title. My friend also told me someone told him off directly for his change of behaviour as a Sharpa Choeje and warned him that will not serve him well. Obviously, since that is against the Buddha's teachings to begin with. My friend also told me that he was a good teacher in knowledge but I guess his interest in power overpowered the dharma and spiritual practice.

What my friend said further prove DharmaDefender's sharing on 103rd Gaden Tripa's personality and being ungrateful is just one of the many things he shouldn't be doing with such a sacred title. Any normal and ordinary people would understand being grateful and thankful is just something any normal persons would do as a common courtesy to so much help one received. HE Tsem Tulku on the contrary is a total opposite of the 103rd Gaden Tripa - genuine, generous, caring, appreciative, non-political, doesn't want attention, practitioner of dharma and devoted to his root Guru and Dorje Shugden.

Sera and Drepung have a reputation to produce sangha that are good in political relation, while Gaden, especially Shartse, famous for producing eminent dharma practitioner. This 103rd Gaden Tripa further 'endorsed' that reputation and so it is not a surprise that he didn't focus on dharma but politics. Political relation is not bad but focusing on it as a monk is definitely unnecessary and the result should set a good example for the future generation. I hope people will learn a good lesson from the 103rd Gaden Tripa's death and life story and really take karma and merits into serious considerations and work towards liberation from samsara.
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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by Big Uncle on April 27, 2017, 07:53:03 PM »
The 103rd Ganden Tripa began his studies when he was 9 years old at Tsem Monastery.

Tsem Monastery or Tsemcholing is located around Lhasa



The stupa in Tsemcholing looks exactly like the one in H.E. Tsem Rinpoche's Kechara Forest Retreat:



http://retreat.kechara.com/news/vajrayogini-stupa-at-kechara-forest-retreat/


Tsem Monastery is not in Lhasa area, it is in Yarra. Tsemcholing is actually another monastery that belong to a very powerful incarnation line that used to serve as one of the regents of Tibet. So, I think you got your info mixed up. Furthermore, the shape of the stupa you pointed out is quite common in Tibet. You would see it almost everywhere in the Tibetan world.
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General Discussion / Re: Tsem Tulku connected to 103rd Gaden Tripa?
« Last post by Big Uncle on April 27, 2017, 07:37:06 PM »
From reading this post, I feel that the Gaden Tripa Lobsang Tenzin was a highly political lama and that probably gotten him the position in the first place and that is why he didn't accumulate the merits to support his tenure. It's too bad that he was like that because that didn't serve his practice and as DharmaDefender had said, he didn't have the merits nor the tantric attainment to ward off unnecessary illnesses. At this point, nobody knows how he passed away which in itself is highly suspicious.

I am sorry but this is too bad because the Gaden Tripa should be a lama of the highest caliber and not just any ordinary monk. He is the head of the Gelug School and a lama of his caliber, much more is expected out of him because he was chosen amongst the most elite of the Gelug. Unfortunately, this lama reflects badly on the Gelug system and it shows that degeneration had set in and it seems that a lama who is political and against Dorje Shugden should never be allowed to rise to this level. 
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Oracles are a great part of our Tibetan tradition. Foreigners who don't understand our practices should not be so quick to judge them as this and that because it makes them look ill-informed, foolish and uneducated. Why apply Western-bred perception to Eastern practices? The two will not fit and judging Eastern practices according to one's Western perception will only lead to inaccurate conclusions.

So this person claims that all deities who enter oracles are 'not a Buddha'. What she means is that all of them are unenlightened. As the images from the original poster have very clearly stated, is this lady saying that His Holiness the Dalai Lama relies on unenlightened beings? During Loshar every year, the Dalai Lama has his oracles take trance to bless and give advice. This is except for Gadhong Oracle who never spoke, which the Dalai Lama said was due to his tuberculosis.

Why does the Dalai Lama rely on unenlightened deities, as this lady suggests, to guide and bless people when he can do it himself? If you want to say it's humility, that's fine. But His Holiness still has a whole pantheon of enlightened lamas like my Rimpoche to do the guiding and blessings, and these gurus can appear in person. Wouldn't that be safer as there won't be concern about what kind of deity is entering the oracle? Yet the Dalai Lama still has the trances take place, even though he does not have to rely on these deities to do the task.

If Nechung, Tenma and Gadhong is good enough for the Dalai Lama, I'm sure Dorje Shugden is good enough for those who practise Shugden. It's up to them what they wish to worship, I'm not here to judge. But this lady doesn't do herself any favours when she speaks judgemental nonsense like this. Her opinion is not a well-informed and properly-concluded one. It is based on her hatred of Shugdenpas and spoken out of her experiences with NKT, whatever those may be. But just because she and a small handful had unpleasant experiences with one organisation, it doesn't mean the entire oracle tradition should be rubbished as one which involves unenlightened deities.
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Simply criticizing an old practice seems foolish to me. Who is this lady who thinks to be so smart to talk about a recognized tradition?

One should be careful to speak about something one does not know much about as it creates heavy karma to simply put down a powerful and beneficial practice.

Thank you to the moderator for the interesting YouTube links!
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