Is the DL changing his mind on mixing politics and religion?

[vajralight]

Now after so many years having mixed politics and religion suddenly the DL thinks rule by spiritual leaders is no longer appropriate. Funny it is only when he himself steps down he changes his mind on this subject. Is he sincerely changing his mind or feeling the heat ?


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/17/3167084.htm?section=justin


Dalai Lama rejects pleas to reconsider retirement

Updated 5 hours 25 minutes ago
The Dalai Lama offers prayers

The Dalai Lama says rule by spiritual leaders or by kings is now out of date. (AFP: Manan Vatsyayana )

    * Related Story: Dalai Lama quits politics

The Dalai Lama has rejected calls from the Tibetan parliament in exile urging him to reconsider his decision to retire as political head of the movement.

The 75-year-old spiritual leader announced last week that he wanted to shed his role as political chief of the government-in-exile and hand his responsibilities to the next prime minister, who will be elected on Sunday.

The overwhelming majority of members of the 43-seat assembly have called for the decision to be reconsidered, with many arguing that the cause for greater freedom in Tibet will be undermined.

"No (I will not reconsider). I gave serious consideration for many years... my decision for the long run is best," he said.

"Rule by spiritual leaders or by kings, these are now out of date," he said, adding that he wanted to set an example of a non-elected leader who was happy to relinquish power.

The comments come amid turmoil in the Middle East where royal families, particularly Bahrain, are under pressure from pro-democracy demonstrators.

"The world is changing," he said.

In a letter read out to the parliament on Monday, the Dalai Lama argued that the Tibetan movement was now mature enough for an elected political leader with greater power and responsibilities.

The Nobel laureate will retain the more significant role of Tibet's spiritual leader and continue to advocate the Tibetan cause.

He favours "meaningful autonomy" for his people from Chinese rule, but Beijing considers him a separatist bent on fomenting unrest in his homeland, which he fled in 1959.

"Regarding the Tibetan justice struggle, I am fully committed. Every Tibetan has a responsibility," he told a small group of journalists at his residence in the Indian hill town of Dharamshala.

[Vajraprotector]

I see it in a different light. The Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile was founded in 1960 and I feel it has been one of the efforts of His Holiness the Dalai Lama's to introduce a democratic system of administration, or one that doesn't rely on His Holiness anymore, in case there is no more reincarnation (and seeing the trend, there could be 2 or multiple "reincarnations"!)

Of course, we know the parliament is not that powerful compared to the institution of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans are still more prone to respect a "God-king" than men. After all, we're talking about this tradition that was practised since the mid-17th century and it's not easy for Tibetan to submit to a "normal" ruler. Also, Dalai Lama had previously announced on American television that his future successor might be one of the heads of the other schools of Tibetan Buddhism and hence the Karmapa being in the headlines for some time now. So perhaps His Holiness really has good intention to relieve himself not only of the role of a political ruler, but also as a spiritual leader.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that His Holiness doesn't have influence on Tibetans if he is not the rulling head of state/government. I don't think the future Kalon Tripa, be it Lobsang Sangay, Tenzin Tethong nor Tashi Wangdi can command the respect that His Holiness receives, nor the influential power of His Holiness in the global arena: as a "god-king", a saint, a head-of-state, a scholar, a Dharma teacher, and a "celebrity".  Also, compared to the current Kalon Tripa Samdhong Rinpoche, the candidates are all lay people. So perhaps, there really is an effort to not mix politics and religion as TGIE is no longer Shangri-la but a secular, exiled world?

[DharmaSpace]

Well at least His Holiness is leaving behind the political power while he is still around.

If he just passed away then the TGIE will be really stuck, without sufficient time to effectively build up running the TGIE without him.

I got a question that I am not very clear about when HHDL issued the ban on Dorje Shugden, was he doing it as a political leader or spiritual leader or both?

[WisdomBeing]

"Rule by spiritual leaders or by kings, these are now out of date," - definitely!

Rule by spiritual leaders is not a new thing. In Europe, the "divine right of kings" was a political and religious doctrine of royal and political legitimacy. This declared that any monarch is subject to no earthly authority, as his right to rule is granted directly from the will of God. The monarch is above the will of his people, the aristocracy, or any other estate of the realm, including (in the view of some, especially in Protestant countries) the Church. According to this "right", since only God can judge an unjust king, the king can do no wrong. Any attempt to depose the king or to undermine his rule is seen as contrary to the will of God and may be seen as a sacrilegious act.

With the rise of nation-states and the Protestant Reformation, the theory of divine right justified the king's absolute authority in both political and spiritual matters. The theory came to the fore in England under the reign of James I of England (1603–1625, also James VI of Scotland 1567–1625). Louis XIV of France (1643–1715), though Catholic, strongly promoted the theory as well.

The theory of divine right was abandoned in England during the Glorious Revolution of 1688–89. The American and French revolutions of the late eighteenth century further weakened the theory's appeal, and by the early twentieth century, it had been virtually abandoned.

Incidentally, The Glorious Revolution permanently ended any chance of Catholicism becoming re-established in England. For British Catholics, its effects were disastrous both socially and politically: Catholics were denied the right to vote and sit in the Westminster Parliament for over 100 years after wards, were denied commissions in the army, and the monarch was forbidden to be Catholic or marry a Catholic, a prohibition which continues to this day.

(history above was taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution because i can't remember much of my history classes! Google for more info. Divine right was exercised in China and asian countries too.)

I think it's quite interesting re the Catholic and Protestant controversy - there was so much openly religious discrimination against the Catholics. It could be seen as having a parallel to Dorje Shugden practitioners!

[Helena]

This is such an interesting discussion - very thought provoking indeed!

Thanks for drawing the parallels, WB!

What is fascinating is that this concept of the Divine Ruler or God-King or Heavenly Ruler is not just an European or Western tradition - it is everywhere!

It is the same with the Eastern traditions - the Chinese Emperors used to be hailed as the Heavenly King. The Japanese Monarch is also the same. Many traditions across the globe carry this archaic ruling system.

I wonder where it really stemmed from.

As far HHDL's stepping down and not mixing politics with religion are concerned, I believe the time is already running out for TGIE and the Tibetan Cause.

Times and tide have all changed to be in favour of China, not Tibet in Exiles.

Where as there is an expiry date on the political front, there is no expiry for the religious front.

That is how I see it.

TGIE has no real country to rule over - whether they start implementing democracy or not. That's a fact.

But Tibetan Buddhism has flourished all over the world. The spiritual aspect continues with no expiration date.

Hence, it is the most beneficial thing to do at this point in time - separate the two.

[DSFriend]

I wonder where it really stemmed from.

I do wonder also where the god king stemmed from ...

This is what's found on wiki, "The idea of the divine right to rule has appeared in many cultures Eastern and Western spanning all the way back to the first god king Gilgamesh."

Gilgamesh also known as Bilgames in the earliest text, was the fifth king of Uruk (Early Dynastic II, first dynasty of Uruk), placing his reign ca. 2500 BC. According to the Sumerian king list he ruled for 126 years. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh)

Anyway, I do think that the god king rulership in Tibet is not necessary in this day and age just like how it's been abandoned in other nations.  Even if it continues, how impactful is it going to be? We have seen the last 50 years of exiled god king rulership and it has not brought about much at all for Tibet.

[hide]this

[thaimonk]

posted by Thiago Nunez 19 March 2011 09:17:09 Guestbook

Dalai Lama vows to devolve power, says leadership outdated By Sunil Kataria DHARAMSALA, India (Reuters) - The Dalai Lama said on Thursday that his leadership was as outdated as a monarchy and insisted he would relinquish a four-century old tradition of power despite opposition from within the Tibetan government-in-exile. The Dalai Lama last week announced he would step down as Tibet's political leader to empower an elected prime minister, a move seen transforming the government-in-exile into a more assertive body in the face of Chinese pressure. But many exiled Tibetan leaders have opposed his devolving of power, fearful the movement could wane without the influence of a global celebrity adored by Hollywood stars and the 6 million Tibetans who worship him as a reincarnated leader. "The rule by spiritual leaders, the rule by kings or rajas is now outdated," Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama who has been calling for democratic reforms since the 1960s, told a news conference in his first public statement since his decision. "I do not want to be like Mubarak." Having long stressed his "semi-retirement" from political life, the 75-year-old said last Thursday he would step down as head of state and administrative chief, ending an institution of spiritual and political leadership that dates from 1642. The parliament-in-exile must approve the move by a two-thirds majority amid concerns opposition may lead to a constitutional deadlock. "If (the parliamentarians) come tomorrow and the day after tomorrow then I will tell them: No, my decision as far as an institution as a head of both temporal and spiritual, that must end, that is outdated." "My decision is for the long run, it is best. Now let them carry full responsibility. If they really feel something difficult, then I am available." NEW ELECTION Tibetans will vote for a new prime minister on March 20, with three secular candidates battling to succeed the Dalai Lama's more than five decades as head of the Tibetan government-in-exile based in the northern Indian town of Dharamsala. The election is seen ushering in a younger, secular, elected leader to deal a huge symbolic blow for China's claims to rule the region and strengthen the movement's global standing. "The Chinese government often say there is no such Tibetan issue, the only problem is the Dalai Lama. So now I made clear no problem, the Dalai Lama will voluntarily withdraw but their immediate response was this is a trick," the Dalai Lama said. The two main contenders have hinted they could move beyond the Dalai Lama's "middle way" policy of negotiating some autonomy from China. A younger generation have criticised it for producing no results despite the 2008 rebellion against Chinese rule in which at least 19 people -- possibly hundreds -- were killed. "Regarding the Tibetan just struggle I am fully committed as a Tibetan, every Tibetan has a responsibility. So therefore now let them carry full responsibility and I remain outside government," the Dalai Lama said. "I very much return to the way of the previous four Dalai Lamas -- purely spirituality. That does not mean if some serious things (warrant) my suggestions, my views, if they are willing to listen, that is ok." (Writing by Henry Foy; editing by Alistair Scrutton and Jeremy Laurence)

[Helena]

I found this news reported by the BBC very interesting.

I have extracted the parts that I found most interesting. For the complete article, please click on the link below.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12735884

[b]Viewpoint: Dalai Lama's exile challenge for Tibetans[/b]
As the Tibetan parliament-in-exile meets in Dharamsala to discuss the Dalai Lama's decision to devolve his political role to an elected official, Robert Barnett of Columbia University looks at what lies behind the Tibetan spiritual leader's move.

Succession challenge
The statement has nothing to do with the question of who will be the next Dalai Lama, an even more serious issue - China announced four years ago that only its officials can decide which lama is allowed to reincarnate or which child is the reincarnated lama. This ensures that there will be major conflict once the current Dalai Lama dies, unless the dispute has been solved by then.


The Dalai Lama makes his announcement in Dharamsala on 10 March
But the statement does confirm who will be the official leader of the 145,000 or so Tibetans in exile: it will be the man whom the exiles will elect as their new prime minister on 20 March. The new appointee will face a daunting task - he will be a leader with no territory, no military power, no international recognition, limited revenue and an electorate riven by political, regional and religious rivalries.

There are three candidates, all of them men, fluent in English, and moderate in their politics. The leading candidate, Lobsang Sangay, has wide support because he is younger and assertive, with an academic title from a prestigious American university. But he is without experience in government, business or management, has spent only a few days in Tibet, and knows no Chinese. The other candidates, Tenzin Tethong and Tashi Wangdi, have years of experience as leading officials in the exile administration, but are seen as conservative and reticent in their approach to leadership.

None of the candidates are monks or lamas, and it will be hard for any of them to maintain a unified community in exile. They will be unknown to Tibetans inside Tibet, whose connection is to the Dalai Lama. And China insists it will consider talks only with the Dalai Lama himself, not with the exile administration, which it does not recognise. The Dalai Lama is pushing exiles to confront these challenges whilst he is still around to step in when there is a crisis.

"He is signalling to Tibetans that the resolution to their conflict may not come in his lifetime”

Flawed system
Tibetans have experienced the best aspects of the Tibetan system of religious monarchy: it is extraordinarily effective in producing national unity and moral focus when it has a gifted, charismatic and forward-thinking leader. But only three of the 14 Dalai Lamas ever achieved that stature, and as a succession method the system is disastrous, since it takes nearly 20 years to find, confirm, and educate the next reincarnation. Tibet thus experienced long periods under regents who had limited authority - one of the reasons why the former Tibet was a weak state that was so easily absorbed by China 60 years ago.

Many Tibetans are thus likely to do their utmost to try to dissuade their leader from stepping down, which they understandably see as more than symbolic, even as catastrophic - probably one reason why the Dalai Lama is trying to rush the issue through his exile parliament in the next few days. This in turn magnifies the risk that Tibetans inside Tibet, hearing limited news only from attacks on the Dalai Lama in the Chinese media, might think their leader has abandoned them.

The Dalai Lama's statement thus carries a hidden but unsurprising message: he is signalling to Tibetans that the resolution to their conflict may not come in his lifetime.

If the exiles want an institution that can continue after he dies to hold China to account over its record of poor and often abusive governance in Tibet, they will need to build a system robust enough to carry out that task without him. They are being reminded that soon they will find themselves with no choice but to have to do that on their own.

Robert Barnett is the Director of the Modern Tibetan Studies Program and an Adjunct Professor at Columbia University, New York[/color]

[DSFriend]

Succession challenge
The statement has nothing to do with the question of who will be the next Dalai Lama, an even more serious issue - China announced four years ago that only its officials can decide which lama is allowed to reincarnate or which child is the reincarnated lama. This ensures that there will be major conflict once the current Dalai Lama dies, unless the dispute has been solved by then.

Looks like one side of the shoe, the Political side is taken care of with the newly voted in Prime Minister. Filling the other side of the shoe, Spiritual side will be interesting. Time will tell...

[DSFriend]

"Rule by spiritual leaders or by kings, these are now out of date," he said, adding that he wanted to set an example of a non-elected leader who was happy to relinquish power.

The comments come amid turmoil in the Middle East where royal families, particularly Bahrain, are under pressure from pro-democracy demonstrators.

"The world is changing," he said.

In a letter read out to the parliament on Monday, the Dalai Lama argued that the Tibetan movement was now mature enough for an elected political leader with greater power and responsibilities.

The Nobel laureate will retain the more significant role of Tibet's spiritual leader and continue to advocate the Tibetan cause.

He favours "meaningful autonomy" for his people from Chinese rule, but Beijing considers him a separatist bent on fomenting unrest in his homeland, which he fled in 1959.

So the lost of freedom, inability to free Tibet,... is it due to outdated method of ruling a country or was it Dorje Shugden's fault?! If only people would think, the logic will make things clear...

[LosangKhyentse]

Vast majority of Tibetans have very little exposure to the outside world and know very little. To explain democracy, or freedom of religion, or religious supression to them is beyond what they can understand. Their world is very small. Their world consists of:

1. Get Tibet back and be as they were.
2. Dalai Lama will save the day, and no one else in the world can lead them.
3. Recite Om Mani Peme Hungs as much as possible to improve their lot in this life and the next.
4. How to get to US or Europe for a better life and make much more money.
5. Make sure the Dalai Lama is happy and not offended or you'll be ostracized.

Majority of Tibetans living in India and Nepal revolve around the 'GOLDEN FIVE THOUGHTS'. They are not concerned of Global warming, environmental degradation, world economy, wars in the middle east, alternative power sources, rise of China as a super power, or how to help quake victims in Japan, etc. Even if they knew more, they would not be concerned.

By the 'grace' of the Tibetan Govt they are still kept in peasant mode of thinking. The younger generation may have a better education, but the Tibetan Govt does not allow them to think, act, grow or expand. Besides the Dalai Lama, you have no Tibetans who are global force, thinkers, players of any sort. Tibetans do not affect the world as much as the Dalai Lama would like to think and hope so. His very presence as the Dalai Lama was a great unifying force in Tibet of old and kept Tibetans together. But in the modern world today, his role MUST CHANGE DRAMATICALLY. If the younger generation of Tibetans scattered throughout the globe were educated correctly, exposed and aware of events around the world besides their Tibet-centric focus, you would see more Tibetan Global players. But the sad fact is you don't. This leads directly to the failure of the Tibetan Govt in Exile in Dharamsala. Their biggest concern is to make Dalai Lama's star drawing power bigger so they can all make their private connections and move their families out of India and to the eventual safety all Tibetans crave fearing the eventual demise of Dalai Lama. This fear of what will happen to them after the Dalai Lama's death is unspoken as it's 'inauspicious' to talk of the Dalai Lama's death, in other words, treason.

The bigger the Dalai Lama becomes, the more benefits the cronies and subserviants would benefit naturally. Just like in old Tibet.

Dalai Lama holding onto power this long has not brought back independence of Tibet ( the land of milk and honey). Dalai Lama holding onto power has made Tibetan Buddhism mainstream and accepted but with the recent controversies such two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas, Succession and Dorje Shugden has disappointed many truth be told.

There will be very little significant changes to the Tibetan Govt as long as the Dalai Lama is alive even with the election of the new prime minister or the devolvement of power by the Dalai Lama. Tibetan Buddhism will continue to grow because Dalai Lama is alive which is good. That is the dichotamy. I guess for the growth of Tibetan Buddhism, the Tibetan cause must be 'sacrificed' and remain unfulfilled.

Dorje Shugden's ban still will not go away, but start to fade with the new prime minister. As he is purely secular, let's hope he doesn't use the Tibetan govt to back up religious edicts as the Dalai Lama has been doing.
It's one thing when one Lama speaks up about a religious issue. It's another thing when the Tibetan Govt backs up the Lama's views and integrates it into their policies for their citizens. So and so Rinpoche may express this or that, but it will not become a govt policy. When Dalai Lama issued his ban, the govt fully 'supported' the ban all the way. The Tibetan constitution was amended to suit the ban. For example children of Dorje Shugden practitioners may not attend Tibetan schools. No other Lama after the Dalai Lama will be supported by the Tibetan Govt. In fact the Tibetan govt will fade after the demise of the Dalai Lama. Any other lamas speaking negatively about Dorje Shugden will be ignored or taken to court for defamation.

Surely the new prime minister will have to please the Dalai Lama for now,  but eventually he and his successors will have to shift his focus away from religious and more towards secular. That is when we shall see the ban fade. It is the beginning to the end.

TK

[WisdomBeing]

There will be very little significant changes to the Tibetan Govt as long as the Dalai Lama is alive even with the election of the new prime minister or the devolvement of power by the Dalai Lama. Tibetan Buddhism will continue to grow because Dalai Lama is alive which is good. That is the dichotamy. I guess for the growth of Tibetan Buddhism, the Tibetan cause must be 'sacrificed' and remain unfulfilled.

Dorje Shugden's ban still will not go away, but start to fade with the new prime minister. As he is purely secular, let's hope he doesn't use the Tibetan govt to back up religious edicts as the Dalai Lama has been doing.
It's one thing when one Lama speaks up about a religious issue. It's another thing when the Tibetan Govt backs up the Lama's views and integrates it into their policies for their citizens. So and so Rinpoche may express this or that, but it will not become a govt policy. When Dalai Lama issued his ban, the govt fully 'supported' the ban all the way. The Tibetan constitution was amended to suit the ban. For example children of Dorje Shugden practitioners may not attend Tibetan schools. No other Lama after the Dalai Lama will be supported by the Tibetan Govt. In fact the Tibetan govt will fade after the demise of the Dalai Lama. Any other lamas speaking negatively about Dorje Shugden will be ignored or taken to court for defamation.

Surely the new prime minister will have to please the Dalai Lama for now,  but eventually he and his successors will have to shift his focus away from religious and more towards secular. That is when we shall see the ban fade. It is the beginning to the end.

TK

Re "The Tibetan constitution was amended to suit the ban." - since the discrimination against Shugden practitioners is now enshrined in the constitution, I am sure the incoming Prime Minister, whoever he may be, will not wish to rock the boat and maintain status quo. The Prime Minister will see the ban as a 'spiritual' matter rather than a secular one and will accede to the Dalai Lama's direction. Only after the Dalai Lama's passing will the ban be likely to fade. Though now that the Dalai Lama has set in motion his successor for his political role, I wonder who is he going to appoint or what process will he sanction for his spiritual successor.

[beggar]

I found THIS quite amusing:
the Dalai Lama argued that the Tibetan movement was now mature enough for an elected political leader with greater power and responsibilities.


How can this Tibetan movement suddenly be mature enough for an elected political leader when they don't even have a proper country to govern? Is that to say this government in exile is now more ready for its own political, secular (non spiritual) leader than it was when it had its own country? It does not make sense.

I do think it a wonderful thing that the Dalai Lama is disassociating the spiritual from the secular now. With that, spiritual issues such as the Dorje Shugden practice/ban can be taken out of that threatening and oppressive sphere cast over of the government and can be dealt with more meaningful within the spiritual communities, where it should have always stayed in the first place.

[Mana]

I like this.
Mana
****

Posted by Eli Buchen on his FB
( interesting stuff )
In the 70's
no social media,
no websites
no special monasteries
no twitter
...no Facebook
no many Gelug centers all over the world

in the year 2011
- Facebooks on Dorje Shudgen
- Hundreds of websites on Dorje Shugden
- Special Monasteries for Dorje Shugden practitioners
- Facebook and twitter dedicated to Dorje Shugden
- Many Gelug centers till engaging in Dorje Shugden all over the world

His Holiness the Dalai Lama sure did a good job banning the practice 
Dorje Shugden is now more wide spread in the world than before, part of the plan?

[DharmaSpace]

I think the end of the Gaden Phodrang as we know it is beneficial for Tibetans and the Gelugpa Institutions alike.
The next Dalai Lama may not be in a position to hoid the power like the current incarnation.

With the Dalai Lama giving up power, eventually the ban will get lifted away too.

Can;t wait for the ban to be lifted many more people will be able to practice Dorje Shugden with a greater peace of mind and be under the care of our powerful protector.