Author Topic: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views  (Read 11186 times)

vajralight

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« on: June 15, 2011, 12:16:01 PM »
Small | Large


You can see the ugly Tibetan politics at work here and a so called holy man (Samdong R)
lying when he says there never have been demonstrations for Tibetan independence etc..

It is quite a sad documentary.


sarva mangalam

vajra


triesa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2011, 05:57:25 PM »
I agree with you vajralight, Samdong Rinpoche sounded very much like a politican. when being asked, he just threw out the theories without any feeling towards the real situation in Tibet and his people. Worst of all, he lied.

I admire those student leaders who really spoke with  passion and  love for their country.  Under the current situation, I don't think even the students nor of course TGIE will have the means to free Tibet........Perhaps the spread of Dorje Shugden's practice in China will create the casue.....and in my opinion, this is the only feasible cause.




Mana

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 05:57:39 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cTMB1-kudg&feature=player_embedded

You can see the ugly Tibetan politics at work here and a so called holy man (Samdong R)
lying when he says there never have been demonstrations for Tibetan independence etc..

It is quite a sad documentary.


sarva mangalam

vajra




We appreciate your sadness and disappointment towards Samdhong Rinpoche's manifested actions. But please abide by our forum rules by not being so harsh in your comments about any lamas.
This is not a warning but a gentle reminder please.

Mana



dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2011, 03:28:23 PM »
Many years back I saw some monks in a busy public area begging for money on the streets. I remembered I asked a Thai friend of mine about them if they were really monks, how do we tell? Can we be sure we are doing a good deed. My thai friend answered "Giving to that monk whether he is a fake or a real monk is not the point. The fact that he is wearing monks robes, he represents the Buddha, as Buddha said so 2500 years ago. Hence giving would be good on our part and we still collect the merits whether the other is good or bad, right or wrong. The other party has his/her karma to deal with and if he/she is deceiving, he/she will bare the consequences so we do not have to worry so much about them. So long as we are sincere, and we did a virtuous deed, then we will collect the merits. But it would be unwise for us to judge a monk or say negative things for it will have the same results, instead of collecting merits, we collect demerits/negative karma." I thought that was a very good logical explanation that is Dharmic and that we could abide in.
Whatever Samdong Rinpoche does we cannot really be sure of his motivation behind it.
 
In today's world there are so many and will always be so many people who will abuse their authority, deceive people etc etc... this has probably been going on since the beginning of man kind. If we start going around pointing finger, figuring out who is a fake, who is right, who is not, we will end up more confused and insecure. Really there is not an end to it and there is no point. At the end of the day what good does it do for us, for our practice? Better we just focus on our practice ;)

It is not just in Buddhism, it is in other religions too, the church, the government, etc etc....this is samsara.

Zach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 09:35:04 PM »
Tibetan politics is ugly. No wonder why Buddha encouraged renunciation  :)
I would be much happier if Tibet had under gone a seperation of religion and state because it certainly paints a bad picture of those wearing the robes of a renunciate engaging in samsaric activities we all know no real benefit can come from such, a better use of time is training the mind and encouraging others to do the same that really will solve all the worlds problems.

Again there are many shugden practitoners within the tibetan community still wether or not they are open about it or pretend to have given up we cannot know however i some how doubt that the Dalai lamas G men will be able to keep an eye on people day in and day out on what they practise behind closed doors. I also trust students of great masters past would be less ficle as to abandon their guru devotion toward their kind teachers with regards to Dorje shugden because of the Dalai lamas dictate.

The end conclusion is we cannot know what other people are doing their private face may be different from their public face, just as in the past where many practises people previously deemed not of benefit where pushed underground in the west the same i would think will happen with many of those who practise this great protector in exile tibetan society.

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 02:44:41 PM »
At least the latest developments in the Tibetan community IS to separate state and religion. So we shall see how that develops. Since state and religion has separated, it will be interesting to see what political ramifications are on Shugden practitioners seeking travel documents etc.

Back to the original comment on Samdong Rinpoche, Samdong Rinpoche has now retired, and since he was known to be a strong Shugden practitioner before the ban was instituted, time will tell if he, like HH Gaden Trisur Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal will reveal their true practice. While Gaden Trisur was serving his term as Gaden Tri, he had to tow the political party line and it is not a matter of whether he was brave or a coward. In his position, he had to follow the rules imposed by the Dalai Lama. The end.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 05:20:45 PM »
Actually, WB, you brought up a good point about Gaden Trisur. More than towing the line, he had to uphold his duties and responsibilities as Gaden Trisur at that time. And that meant also that he had to follow the rules imposed by the Dalai Lama. That is Gaden Trisur's skillful ways of maintaining his position and responsibilities without causing any more distress or confusion to other monks' mind.

I think it needs to be highlighted how deeply compassionate each high Lama have been and still are in their choice of methods to preserve peace while they are still in office, while maintaining respect for HHDL. I can imagine it would have been much more chaotic if Gaden Trisur decided to stay and finish his tenure before 'defecting' to Shar Gaden. He delivered his duties, promises and responsibilities as Gaden Trisur without fault to the very end of his term. At least, he honoured that.

So, I don't see it as cowardice. I believe it is much harder. Now he has completed his role as Gaden Trisur without any incident and revealed that he still sides with Dorje Shugden, it says much more about him as a Dorje Shugden practitioner. It conveys that Dorje Shugden practitioners are not bad, evil, negative and all those things that we have been accused. It highlights vividly that the content of one's character and spiritual practice are not in any way corrupted by DS. In fact, it is the complete opposite.
Helena

Vajraprotector

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 610
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2011, 12:41:25 AM »
I respect  lamas who never speaks ill of others and really shows a shining example of applying Dharma in their lives, especially with their speech, which is their main 'channel' of communicating the Dharma.  It really shows what their robes meant to them.

I've always wonder whether it is possible for Tibet to have gone for a seperation of religion and state because it was ok before they went into exile. The 'separation of religion and state' was a matter to the Tibetan people when they had their country, and is still theirs although they are in exile, we should just mind our own country's politics. I'm sure there's plenty to deal with already in any country.

Weird to highlight this point, but China, the so-called "enemy" of Tibet has an eight-point diplomatic philosophy that includes not interfering with other countries' internal affairs, which I think they did.  This is of course, excluding the affairs with Tibet & Taiwan which China claims it's theirs and hence, an "internal affair".  This is very clear in comparison with United States that has a history of interfering with other countries' affairs. I'm not saying I'm a proponent or an opponent, just trying to show the differences.

I als think as practitioners, we should not take on such "puritanist" views that we sought everyone's conformity to the teaching/practice of the Buddha in a certain way , with moral purity pursued both down to the smallest detail as well as monastic purity to the highest level. If we are so stucked, we are the ones who really paint a bad picture of Buddhists engaging in non-Dharmic activities, or actions and thoughts that do not conform to the higher teachings in Tibetan Buddhism -  Mahamudra.





Rihanna

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2011, 05:21:02 PM »
At least the latest developments in the Tibetan community IS to separate state and religion. So we shall see how that develops. Since state and religion has separated, it will be interesting to see what political ramifications are on Shugden practitioners seeking travel documents etc.

Back to the original comment on Samdong Rinpoche, Samdong Rinpoche has now retired, and since he was known to be a strong Shugden practitioner before the ban was instituted, time will tell if he, like HH Gaden Trisur Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal will reveal their true practice. While Gaden Trisur was serving his term as Gaden Tri, he had to tow the political party line and it is not a matter of whether he was brave or a coward. In his position, he had to follow the rules imposed by the Dalai Lama. The end.


Love what you wrote here WisdomBeing! Am eagerly awaiting the outcome of your prophecy!

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 07:24:35 PM »
At least the latest developments in the Tibetan community IS to separate state and religion. So we shall see how that develops. Since state and religion has separated, it will be interesting to see what political ramifications are on Shugden practitioners seeking travel documents etc.

Back to the original comment on Samdong Rinpoche, Samdong Rinpoche has now retired, and since he was known to be a strong Shugden practitioner before the ban was instituted, time will tell if he, like HH Gaden Trisur Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal will reveal their true practice. While Gaden Trisur was serving his term as Gaden Tri, he had to tow the political party line and it is not a matter of whether he was brave or a coward. In his position, he had to follow the rules imposed by the Dalai Lama. The end.

I hope he does reveal his true heart practice! Samdong Rinpoche like the Dalai Lama are sangha and monks. We do not need to always focus on what He did wrong but instead still give him respect at least as a sangha/monk. This is because... we would be breaking our vows if we start saying negative things about sangha.

Best is we leave the politics to the politicians, focus on our own practice instead of passing judgements.

DharmaSpace

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2011, 10:06:50 PM »
Well I think my view about Samdhong Rinpoche has shifted after he made that video that he served the Dalai Lama because he served his lama Trijang Rinpoche. And that was the sole reason for him to serve the Dalai Lama and nothing else. As one of the greatest lamas of the Gelug tradition is reknowned for Dorje Shugden practise.

Some carried on the practise in the face of oppression, and most of these lamas thrive in adversity, then some of them followed what their lamas have asked them to do. In the case for Samdhong Rinpoche he followed his lama's advise 100% and that is to serve the Dalai Lama. Trijang Lama practised Dorje Shugden all his life so no one can doubt this lama will have shared Dorje Shugden with all of his students.

So is Samdhong Rinpoche practising Dorje Shugden in secret most likely so. But whats even more admirable is his guru devotion to follow his lama's words to the T.

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2011, 04:29:30 PM »
Well I think my view about Samdhong Rinpoche has shifted after he made that video that he served the Dalai Lama because he served his lama Trijang Rinpoche. And that was the sole reason for him to serve the Dalai Lama and nothing else. As one of the greatest lamas of the Gelug tradition is reknowned for Dorje Shugden practise.

Some carried on the practise in the face of oppression, and most of these lamas thrive in adversity, then some of them followed what their lamas have asked them to do. In the case for Samdhong Rinpoche he followed his lama's advise 100% and that is to serve the Dalai Lama. Trijang Lama practised Dorje Shugden all his life so no one can doubt this lama will have shared Dorje Shugden with all of his students.

So is Samdhong Rinpoche practising Dorje Shugden in secret most likely so. But whats even more admirable is his guru devotion to follow his lama's words to the T.


Ho ho! Glad you found the video. And here it is again for anyone who has missed it:
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8656

It's something good to share with fellow dharma friends, whether they are dorje shugden practitioners or not. Samdong Rinpoche's guru devotion is exemplary and something we can all learn from. It's rare to see such devotion in this day and age.

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2011, 04:58:56 PM »
Samdong Rinpoche's Guru Devotion to HH Trijang Rinpoche MUST mean that he IS a Dorje Shugden practitioner. It's only logical. There is no way that Samdong Rinpoche would follow his teacher's advice for so many years and give up the very practice HH Trijang Rinpoche gave to him. After all, as he said in the video that everything he did was because of his devotion to Trijang Rinpoche and not out of loyalty to HH the Dalai Lama or Tibet.

So the question is whether he will reveal his practice and when, rather than does he practise.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DSFriend

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 955
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2011, 05:00:35 PM »
Thought you might want to read this -- Source http://www.friends-of-tibet.org.nz/statement-of-the-outgoing-kalon-tripa-prof-samdhong-rinpoche-on-the-oath-taking-ceremony-of-the-new-kalon-tripa/
 
Statement of the outgoing Kalon Tripa Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche on the oath-taking ceremony of the new Kalon Tripa

With profound respect to Your Holiness, the democratic leadership of the Tibetan people, you’re Excellencies, the honourable guests and the Tibetans in and outside Tibet. On the auspicious occasion of oath-taking ceremony of the third Kalon Tripa democratically elected by the Tibetan people, I happily and proudly offer my heartfelt greetings and congratulate to you all.

Today is a very special day on which this special ceremony takes place. This is a new chapter in Tibetan history in which a giant step is taken towards a genuine democracy. Today is also a beginning of a future where the Tibetan people will show courage and put great efforts for their common goal. The democratic system we practice here in exile is an example not only to people under occupation but also to others around the world. This will also be a valuable gift to the Tibetans inside Tibet when the time comes for all of us to be reunited in Tibet.

From the second century BC to the middle of the twentieth century for most of the time Tibet has been a sovereign independent country. Despite its small population, Tibet has a long and rich civilization with deep spiritual tradition and cultural heritage. Tibet also became a recognizably powerful country in Asia. Especially since the Great Fifth Dalai Lama established the Gaden Phodrang Government in 1642, which has been the legitimate government that ruled the whole of Tibet, the successive Dalai Lamas became the temporal and spiritual head of the Tibetan people to this day.

At a tender age of sixteen, His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai Lama took the political leadership of Tibet from regent Tagdrag Rinpoche. It has been now sixty years since and this has become the longest duration that a Dalai Lama has provided able leadership to the Tibetan people. Despite the fact that this has been the hardest and the most testing period in Tibetan history, His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s charisma and the leadership has brought the Tibetan issue to the forefront of the international stage.

Though His Holiness the Dalai Lama, since the very young age, had the strong desire to introduce democratic system, the external circumstances did not allow him to do so when he was in Tibet. Immediately upon his arrival in exile, His Holiness the Dalai Lama set up the democratic institutions and continued to educate the Tibetan people about democracy and its culture. Irrespective of the general public’s political maturity, His Holiness the Dalai Lama initiated the adoption of Charter for the Tibetans-in-Exile and introduced the processes to elect Sikyong or political leadership directly by the people, which ultimately brought to a complete democratic system for the exile Tibetan community. His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s vision and unceasing guidance for the last thirty years to build a democratic Tibetan polity, that is not dependent on him, has finally achieved. This is a great moment for all of us.

Your Holiness, the Kashag would like to offer our gratitude from the deepest bottoms of our hearts for your incomparable leadership during the hardest time in our history. Your Holiness has provided us the longest leadership and that your temporal and spiritual achievements far exceed the combined deeds of all the thirteen previous Dalai Lamas. Particularly, we will never be able to repay your kindness for introducing the democratic system, devolving your power to the elected Tibetan leadership and handing over the legitimate Tibetan government founded 369 years ago by the Great Fifth Dalai Lama to the democratically elected leaders.

We are deeply indebted to Your Holiness for your consistent and immensely compassionate guidance during the tenure of the 12th and 13th Kashag. We would like to pay our sincerest gratitude and at the same time ask your forgiveness for our inability to fulfil all your wishes.

Your Holiness, you are the Fourteenth Dalai Lama and the undisputed leader of the Tibetan people in and outside Tibet, and as a result Your Holiness has the full moral, political and legitimate authority to devolve all your powers and responsibilities. The devolution of your power and the transfer of your responsibilities were carried out according to appropriate legislative procedures, and there is no space for doubts and questions about the timeliness of the transition and the legitimacy or legality of the Central Tibetan Administration. The Kashag would like to emphasize here that a few people who raise doubts and scorn at Your Holiness’ visionary democratic steps to benefit the Tibetans should not be taken seriously by anyone.

Today’s transition is from an older generation who lack modern education to a new generation having excellent modern education. This is not only a special occasion that the Tibetans should record in its annals in golden letters but also a beginning of making a new history for our common future. Therefore, my colleagues and I would heartily like to congratulate Dr. Lobsang Sangay and offer our prayers that under your able leadership the situation of the Tibetan politics, administration and the community will move forward to attain great progress.

There is no doubt that the issue of Tibet will be resolved sooner or later if the policies and plans in tune with His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s vision are followed. On the contrary, if other paths are followed, then it is difficult to predict the future destiny of Tibetan people.
Taking this opportunity, my colleagues and I would like to express our heartfelt gratitude to all Tibetans in and outside Tibet for their continued support during the tenure of the twelfth and thirteenth Kashag. We would like to urge you to provide the same support to the fourteenth Kashag as well. We regret for our inability to fulfil all the aspirations of the general public.

Finally, I pray for the long life of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the spontaneous fulfilment of all his wishes. May the issue of Tibet be resolved and the day of reunification of Tibetans in Tibet and diaspora may come at the soonest. I now handover this 260-years- old seal, which signifies the legitimacy of the Kashag. The Seventh Dalai Lama bestowed this seal to the Kashag, when he re-established Kashag in 1751.

Samdhong Rinpoche
Outgoing Kalon Tripa

8 August 2011, Dharamsala

shugdenpromoter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
    • Email
Re: samdong rinpoche's lies and deluded views
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2011, 07:48:30 PM »

I hope he does reveal his true heart practice! Samdong Rinpoche like the Dalai Lama are sangha and monks. We do not need to always focus on what He did wrong but instead still give him respect at least as a sangha/monk. This is because... we would be breaking our vows if we start saying negative things about sangha.

Best is we leave the politics to the politicians, focus on our own practice instead of passing judgements.

I have to agree with you. No matter what, my lama has always taught me/us to respect Sangha members. We have to respect the robes, more so if we are lay people. Can we take monk vows like they do? Do we benefit others? Have we hold our vows intactly? Please ask ourselves before saying bad things about the sangha members.