Author Topic: Getting what you want...  (Read 20773 times)

kurava

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2010, 11:00:34 AM »
Once my Lama said something like …“ when misfortune happens, it’s spiritually good for us”.

It may sound contradictory to people who think that getting their wishes/prayers answered is the Divine’s sign for them to continue with their spiritual practice. From Buddhists’ point of view, only when we have experienced disappointments, unhappiness or pains often enough will we turn to true spirituality ... "Yes, I've had enough of not getting what I want … so what is the way to get out of this unending rounds of dis satisfactions and frustrations?"

Thanks, DSFriend & Beggar for sharing a different angle to contemplate the meaning of conducive conditions. If we have strong faith in the dharma protector, every unanswered prayer should be viewed as a great chance for us to advance spiritually.

pgdharma

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2010, 03:38:28 PM »
One of Dharma Protector's role is to create the conducive conditions for our practice until we achieve enlightenment. Conducive conditions does not mean a cushioned journey as many of the practitioners here in this forum may concur.

Leave behind our own projections of what is "perfect", what is conducive. Our minds arises from delusions, thus what do we actually know about creating the conditions suitable for our own practice. We are in the situation we are in because we do not know better. How kind our Protector and Lama is to provide us with such conditions.

With studying, we have knowledge of who our Protector is. With knowledge and understanding, faith and a firm mind must be cultivated. Then gratefulness and determination to go through the many trappings of samsara will be ever present.
Couldn't agree more. Sometimes it is good that some misfortune or disappointments fall on us as it is a sign of purification of some obstacles that were to arise. By clearing away those obstacles,  it will create a more conducive environment for us to pursue our spiritual practice. Having faith and trust in our dharma protector , we will  also be mentally strong to overcome these disappointments and to view it as a chance for the growth of our spiritual practice

DSFriend

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2010, 06:26:44 PM »
Sometimes it is good that some misfortune or disappointments fall on us as it is a sign of purification of some obstacles that were to arise. By clearing away those obstacles,  it will create a more conducive environment for us to pursue our spiritual practice. Having faith and trust in our dharma protector , we will  also be mentally strong to overcome these disappointments and to view it as a chance for the growth of our spiritual practice

What you share is the reason how we can rejoice when going through negative experiences. For the longest time, I knew (in my head) that I should rejoice but I didn't know how to in my heart. It was only until recently, I started to learn how to use negative experiences as a stepping stone instead of being crushed by it everytime!

triesa

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2010, 01:47:52 PM »
Once my Lama said something like …“ when misfortune happens, it’s spiritually good for us”.

It may sound contradictory to people who think that getting their wishes/prayers answered is the Divine’s sign for them to continue with their spiritual practice. From Buddhists’ point of view, only when we have experienced disappointments, unhappiness or pains often enough will we turn to true spirituality ... "Yes, I've had enough of not getting what I want … so what is the way to get out of this unending rounds of dis satisfactions and frustrations?"

Thanks, DSFriend & Beggar for sharing a different angle to contemplate the meaning of conducive conditions. If we have strong faith in the dharma protector, every unanswered prayer should be viewed as a great chance for us to advance spiritually.



When everything goes right, who will find the time to embark on the spiritual journey?? People will continue to engage in what they are doing, like making money, having fun and entertainment, going on holidays, more shopping for things that they don't really need, etc

I myself is also a great example. If it was not due to some mishaps that had happened to me some 10 years ago, I wouldn't know what Buddha dharma is all about. The mishap was actually a "Blessing" in disguise to me.

You will only know whether you are spirituality "fit" (if I may use the word) when faced with conditions and circumstances that are against your wishes.

Triesa

Big Uncle

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2010, 07:17:31 PM »
There are people who get what they want very early in life and there are people who get what they want much later in life. People who get it early in life, they don't really have to work for it and end up basically spoilt while those who get it much later in life have to work for it. Perhaps, by the blessings of the Protector, obstacles come and we have to work for what we want in life. It is basically purification in order to enjoy something bigger and beneficial. It makes us appreciate it better and even use what we want to benefit others. Some of us want lots of money, nice car, business etc and when we get it, we can use our wealth and name for a worthy charity or to spread our beliefs.

jessicajameson

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2010, 04:28:38 AM »
I agree with what has been said so far about how DS doesn't give people what they want, when they want it, if they get it might draw them away from the dharma.. etc etc They're really true, my family and I have experienced it first-hand...and it has all come out for the better now.

But there are times when dharma protectors like Dorje Shugden does give you what you want, immediately.

There are some people who need that to develop faith...there are some people who need to be "convinced" in that way...so why not, when after doing so the person will go all the way with his/her practice. Dorje Shugden has the clairvoyance to know what's appropriate for each person.


beggar

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2010, 05:39:32 PM »
Many of us say that we want big big things like PATIENCE or PEACE or COMPASSION but if we really knew what that entailed we'd probably run away. The stories of the mahasiddhas and great masters are excellent examples for us to see what it means to really want something.

Naropa really wanted to study with his Guru and perfect his Guru devotion so he consciously chose a difficult path for 12 years, where he was ignored and had to live through so much physical hardship. Atisha, wanting to practice patience and the lojong teachings (or appearing to want to practice this, since he has already attained this qualities at the most superior level of course!), chose as his travel companion the one person in the whole monastery who disliked him and constantly criticised him. How many of us can say we would put up with all that?   

If we really wanted to achieve attainments in our practice and grow beyond our limited scope of now, we would always be choosing the difficult path and doing all the things we dislike or are scared of. This is maybe a contradiction that to get what you want (ultimately), you have to first choose the path of everything you DON'T WANT. An interesting conundrum?

WisdomBeing

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2010, 07:59:08 PM »
There is the old adage - be careful what you pray for because you may just get it.

When we pray for something - be it to have more patience, to be kinder.. I do think that the Protector will create the circumstances for us to learn patience and kindness, forgiveness, etc. Hence we will be put in a position where situations will make us impatient so that we can practice patience, and people will send harm to us so we can practice forgiveness. it's ironic but true.

Also, as we go through our day to day, we need to be constantly aware that we are not driven by the 8 worldly concerns. If we do, we're screwed. I notice that when I do get depressed it is completely because of the 8 worldly concerns - i want praise, i want to avoid blame, i want people to think well of me, i don't want to have a bad reputation. I want material comforts and not be without them, and I definitely want pleasure and not pain (no, i'm not a masochist). Thank Buddha that I know about these 8 evil worldly concerns that I can be mindful of what's going on in my monkey mind.

I pray i won't be subject to these 8 worldly concerns but you know what, i bet they'll ALL just come and have a private party in my life and turn everything upside down precisely so that i will have to learn how to be free of them.

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Helena

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2010, 06:12:52 AM »
Haha - well said, WB!

I like how you put all things into such a witty perspective.

If we think about it, then we always do get what we pray for because the conditions did arise to help us practise patience, kindness, compassion, etc. It is just that we did not expect them to be adverse conditions that would arise to help us in our practice.

We always wants our prayers in come in beautifully neatly wrapped up packages like Christmas! Again, expectations and perceptions. Aren' they such deadly killers?
Helena

WisdomBeing

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2010, 11:05:47 AM »
Haha - well said, WB!

I like how you put all things into such a witty perspective.

If we think about it, then we always do get what we pray for because the conditions did arise to help us practise patience, kindness, compassion, etc. It is just that we did not expect them to be adverse conditions that would arise to help us in our practice.

We always wants our prayers in come in beautifully neatly wrapped up packages like Christmas! Again, expectations and perceptions. Aren' they such deadly killers?

Agree with you, Helena!

Expectations and perceptions are definitely the causes of our sufferings. The thing is to truck on and get on with it despite our expectations and perceptions. I think one of our worst delusions is when we have expectations of the Sangha - when we simply have no clue what is real and what is not - how can we even begin to demand anything of the Sangha. We start saying how a Lama, nun or monk should act or shouldn't act - in accordance with what we think is right. Perhaps we should look at ourselves first instead of others.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

beggar

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2010, 08:54:59 PM »

I think one of our worst delusions is when we have expectations of the Sangha - when we simply have no clue what is real and what is not - how can we even begin to demand anything of the Sangha. We start saying how a Lama, nun or monk should act or shouldn't act - in accordance with what we think is right. Perhaps we should look at ourselves first instead of others.

I think another one of our biggest failings is when we have expectations of what spiritual practice / dharma practice should be like. We have a grand idea of it being something blissed out or exotic of full of peace and we get upset when it doesn't turn out that way, or when we realise that actually, it involves a lot of hard work and confronting things we don't like, all our demons.

This is why the whole process of checking things out before we commit to it is very important - be sure that THIS teacher is the one you wish to follow and when you make that decision to follow him, you do it all the way with no expectation or conditions. Once you choose and commit to a spiritual path, and follow it properly, then everything that arises along the way becomes an opportunity to practice and to see your own mind. so if things don't turn out as you want or expect them to turn out, then look at yourself first: How do you react? How angry do you get?  Do you meet the situation with more negativity or positivity? Or do you take it as a chance for practice and growth? Sticking by something you DON'T want or like, and overcoming it to accomplish something higher is what spiritual practice actually is. It's not about just getting what you want (or what you THINK you want).

Helena

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2010, 07:37:05 AM »
Dear WB and Beggar,

I totally agree with what both of your wrote here.

It is amazing that lay people can place so much conditions and expectations on the Sangha or even the Gurus. Considering that none of them have had any experience in the monastic or spiritual life/academics.

A lot of lay people think that they may know a great deal about how monastic and ordained communities should be like or are like, but they really don't.

They might have an idea but it is really an un-informed and un-educated concept.

If lay people have actually spent time in monastic communities and environment, they would come to understand that the life in the Sangha is very different. There are studies and disciplines which they may never even imagined. Especially in Tibetan Buddhism.

People always get shocked when they look at the Yum Yab statues or even Vajrayogini, for example. They cannot imagine that these are Buddhas. In actual fact, what they are really doing is using their ordinary worldly contaminated mind to look at spirituality. Hence, all spirituality that goes through such tainted lenses will naturally come out tainted as well. It is definitely not pure nor right. Not completely, at least.

As I travel around the different places in the world, I realised that different countries hold different definitions of spirituality. I am inclined to think that they truly like hanging onto what they like to believe - even if it is not true or right. It is what they have grown accustomed to.

Hence, it is their tradition to believe as such and practise as such. Because it is tradition or customary, thus, it becomes for them, the right way. Anything else would be deemed as radical or un-holy.

Amazing how information can be processed and passed down through the years and generations, and how much of its true essence can be lost completely.

We are very fortunate that we have what we have today - our Gurus, the Dharma and the centers, the Sangha, etc. Such are the remains of the priceless jewels from the past that can be traced all the way to Buddha Shakyamuni. This makes it a truly authentic heritage...the real gem to behold.
Helena

vajrastorm

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2011, 06:41:40 AM »
Yes, regarding how we always want the Protector to answer our prayers to Him by 'giving us what we want', my Lama had this to say. He said that we should not be telling the Protector how we want Him to answer our prayers and clear our obstacles. After all, we were the ones who had created those obstacles as we had created the causes for them to arise. We should just trust the Protector who will always act in our best interest in terms of our ultimate spiritual goal of ultimate peace and freedom from all suffering.

The Protector will always focus long range on what we need to help us progress on our Dharma path. In the end, the Dharma in us will be the ultimate medicine that will overcome all our persistent problems and obstacles in samsara and heal us of our sufferings by addressing their causes(negative karma and negative imprints opening up) and the root causes(our delusions, especially the three poisons). So the Dharma protector will skillfully 'engineer it' for us to purify our negativities and transform our negative mental states into positive ones as has been clearly shown above in earlier posts.

negra orquida

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2011, 05:19:05 PM »
Quote
I think another one of our biggest failings is when we have expectations of what spiritual practice / dharma practice should be like. We have a grand idea of it being something blissed out or exotic of full of peace and we get upset when it doesn't turn out that way, or when we realise that actually, it involves a lot of hard work and confronting things we don't like, all our demons.

Very very true... If we have this skewed perception when we pray to the 3 Jewels, and do not get what we want (but get what we need instead), then there may be a high chance of us not continuing with the practice and continuing with our greedy spoilt ways.  Hence it is very important to educate ourselves and newcomers on this point.

I'm glad to have met with the Dharma and understand how the Buddhas grant our wishes, the knowledge helps me turn an otherwise annoying/ frustrating situation into a positive practice ground for developing patience/ compassion.  I think this kind of Concept is similar to the Christian's explanation of "why bad things happen to me, I pray to God but I'm still so poor and sick" with "God has His ways / God works in mysterious ways"... basically to have faith in your Buddha/God and trust that He will protect you. The Concept is also covers the old saying "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger".  Somehow combining the spiritual and conventional explanation helps the medicine taste better.

May we all one day be so happy and eager to meet/find annoying/angersome people (like Atisha) so that we can practice the 8 verses of thought transformation (properly) and become the most compassionate and patient people ever =)

DharmaSpace

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Re: Getting what you want...
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2011, 03:23:48 PM »
I re read WB's old post about asking for compassion and patience and the protector will manifest the conditions for us to practise that. The conditions that are right for patience is probably a difficult situation or person or difficulty. The conditions that are right for compassion could be a situation where someone could have done you wrong, people are hurt or fall into difficult circumstances, but the gist of it is challenging situations!

So the protector sometimes would throw us a curve ball to help us grow!