Dalai Lama Bashing

[WisdomBeing]

Everything in good time 

We can either choose to be part of the group of people or even pioneers who made it possible for Dorje Shugden to be promoted everywhere, or we choose to be part of the group of people who just complain, disparage and accuse others for having faith in both HHDL and Dorje Shugden.

I rather choose to be in the group that promotes our great Protector and educate as many people as possible, enabling them to really check it out for themselves, because HIS TIME HAS COME.

So, we all need to work for the Dharma and the Protector to flourish.

As another poster rightly wrote, HIS TIME IS HERE.

When more people get connected with Dorje Shugden, everyone wins because everyone will be guided into the Dharma.

There lies the greatest unity of all, IN DHARMA, BY DHARMA - all thanks to a most Supreme Transcendant Protector.

Hear hear, Helena!

I choose to be in that group too. After all, what is the motivation of complaining and disparaging? What is the karma? To put down any member of the sangha accrues us negative karma, and if the Dalai lama is a Buddha, what is the karma of putting down a Buddha?

Let's be positive and the best promotion of Dorje Shugden would be by the behaviour of Dorje Shugden practitioners. Are we kind? Are we compassionate? Do we create harmony around us - our families, at our workplace? Are we cutting down our selfishness? Do we keep our promises?

If we embody DS' qualities and we say we practice DS, people will look at us, and say - so that is what a Dorje Shugden practitioner is like. That is Dharma.

[Vajraprotector]

I would like to add that just because we, due to lack of merit, are not able to see His Holiness as Chenrezig, doesn't mean he is not.

I heard this story about a high lama recently. He was staying in an apartment, and had been keeping a low profile, wearing lay clothes, while one of his attendant (an older monk) wears monk robes. The security guard had seen the high lama going in and out with the attendant. And one day, he requested the high lama (a high Rinpoche) to "pass a mala (rosary) to be blessed by the high lama (the older attendant monk in monk robes)'. Clearly, we unattained people cannot tell who is attained and who's not but only base on external appearance alone. 

Also, Guru Shakyamuni Buddha also predicted to the bodhisattva Thayä Rigchog, “The Chenrezig who
is going to work for the transmigratory beings of the Snowland of Tibet is you.”. Furthermore, the teachings say, “The guide of all the sentient beings in the Snowland of Tibet will hold the position of a king. The savior of Tibet, Phurgyäl Yül, is my heart disciple. His holy mind is completely clear, without obscuration, but he will work for sentient beings in a hidden
manner by acting as an ordinary being.”

We need to reflect also WHY we have this need to bash a lama? Is it REALLY to serve justice? Is this the method to bring about PEACE or create more SCHISM?

[beggar]

We need to reflect also WHY we have this need to bash a lama? Is it REALLY to serve justice? Is this the method to bring about PEACE or create more SCHISM?

excellent, VajraProtector. And such a great and perfect story about the mistaken identity of the high lama and his attendant. Imagine - we are doing this all the time without realising!

Your question above:
Yes, we must always question our motivation for bashing, criticising or even questioning the actions of a high being. Questioning, debate and sometimes even critique is good - we must look at the result of the questioning, debate and critiquing. Does it make the other person think deeper about their practice and inspire more faith in their minds? Or does it create more confusion and drive them away from their teacher and practice?

It is good to present the facts. At our level, even facts may not really be what they seem. So yes, we can present the "bad and the ugly" facts; but if we do that, then it is ALSO necessary (I would say COMPULSORY) to present the good facts - how kind a lama has been, the many successes of his teachings and actions, exemplary students who have followed him, the content of his teachings (and how they can help us).

The point is to encourage people to  practice and give them the understanding to do it, not turn them away from it or take them further away from understanding.

[Helena]

Thank you both, VajraProtect and Beggar.

You have both raised very valid points and this is precisely why we are in this Forum, still holding the same faith in HHDL and DS.

The problem is some people out there are just refusing to believe and accept that WE ARE ALL NOT ATTAINED and ARE NOT ABLE TO SEE/TELL the difference between an Enlightened Being or a normal being. Hence, their strong attachments to their perception and beliefs would create a great deal of suffering for themselves and others.

How can a common ordinary person who has indulged in secular life criticize any High Lama who has given his or her entire life to the Dharma, and serving the welfare of others? How can a mere mortal tell an Enlightened Being that he or she knows better?

Impossible...hence, because we are un-attained, it is wiser for us to engage in activities that would allow us to promote peace, harmony, understanding and mutual respect.

We should not engage in activities that would create more bad karma for ourselves and lead others to the same fate. It just does not equate to what we are supposed to be practising as Buddhists.

At the end of the day, it is very easy to see if a person's motivation is to help and benefit others -- be it via debates, discussions, questioning and etc - we just need to see the results. Here, results will reveal themselves at their own time.

As always, in Buddhism, the sacrifice of the few for the greater whole will always hold supreme. We are always concerned with the ultimate benefit, and not something short term or medium term.

Ultimate means in the lives after this and also one's inner transformation.

So, if we all might have to suffer for a specific period of time but it will bring about a greater benefit for the whole in the near future, then it is well worth it.

Tibet lost its independence and that is very painful to many many people. And yet, from there, Buddhism spreads to the whole world. Is that not worth it?

More people are able to practice Buddhism or just hear and see Dharma centers in their own neighbourhoods when compared to decades ago. Is this not true spiritual progress?

As such, we must bear in mind, what truly benefits the whole and not just ourselves - however difficult and painful this might seem at this time.

I would imagine, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen would not have sacrificed his own life and stopped being a Dharma Teacher if he did not believe it was well worth it. He even told his murderers how to kill him. That is how supreme and great his compassion is.

Now, how many of us would gladly endure an unpleasant situation for a few minutes with calmness and compassion?

Most of us can't even sacrifice our own private time or pleasures for someone else, so we do not have to talk about serving the welfare of others in any way.

There is much to be learnt from one another. Honestly, without each other, we would also no have chance to practice what our Gurus have taught us. So, be glad that we live to practice and cherish every opportunity to practice.

Just thinking about the 6 Paramitas daily would be a great start to begin our day and end our day.

May be then we are much closer to becoming true practitioners of the great Dharma and be worthy of Dorje Shugden.

[Robert Thomas]

Dear Vajraprotector

I think we should also consider the possibility that the attendant was in fact the more highly realised being and that by relying on titles and reputation we have been mistaken ....

No double meaning intended btw, just that titles and reputation are neither of them qualifications listed by Maitreya of a qualified teacher.

With best wishes

Robert

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Vajraprotector

I think we should also consider the possibility that the attendant was in fact the more highly realised being and that by relying on titles and reputation we have been mistaken ....

No double meaning intended btw, just that titles and reputation are neither of them qualifications listed by Maitreya of a qualified teacher.

With best wishes

Robert

Dear Robert,

Yes indeed - the attendant could be a more realised being.. after all, anyone and everyone could be a Buddha in disguise!

I think that reputations are earned, not given, so if someone with a title does not behave according to their title, people may not respect them after checking them out, regardless of what the title is.

The exceptions would be Mahasiddhas who tend to behave contrary to expected behaviour and as a result, they may be criticised heavily by traditionalists. However, i do believe that they would be gauged by the RESULTS of their behaviour, which would allow people to see if they are enlightened or not.

Saying all that, i think that my personal judgment may be flawed because of my deluded mind so in the end, it would just be simpler to listen to my Guru - if my Guru trusts a particular person with or without a title, I would trust him too.

[Robert Thomas]

Dear Wisdombeing

Absolutely we should trust our teachers, I agree. But in general i don't put much emphasis on reputation as it is often based on worldly concerns. From history we can see many examples showing that it is the people who oppose wrong views and actions that suffer and are generally called 'bad', at the time, whilst those who support the prevailing status quo will naturally be praised. Then later that status quo was found to be harmful and reputations are reversed. Also of course Vajraproector's main point is entirely correct,

"Clearly, we unattained people cannot tell who is attained and who's not but only base on external appearance alone. "

I just wanted to consider some other areas from the story.

All the best

Robert

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Robert,

Yes - i do agree that reputations can change and reverse depending on the prevailing popular wind at the time. Sometimes it is only when we look back historically that we can gauge more objectively the actions and results of a particular person.

Re your point that reputation is one of the eight worldly concerns - yes it is. However, i think that if the motivation of the person with the reputation is pure - i.e. he or she is not seeking a good reputation, then he or she is not subject to the worldly concerns.

Everything is perception - that's why I am suspicious about my own opinion sometimes!

[Helena]

I like your last line, WB - "Everything is perception."

Isn't it amazing that one's perception is so powerful? It can become a prison and limitation to one's real growth/development, or it can propel one further and faster than one could ever imagine.

It is good to reflect on one's opinions and not be too attached to it. Every single reality that we hold will diminish or change with a single new piece of information or evidence.

I try my best to keep an open mind because nothing is permanent and that rigid in samsara.

[Robert Thomas]

Helena said:

"Every single reality that we hold will diminish or change with a single new piece of information or evidence. "

Very nice ...

[beggar]

I like your last line, WB - "Everything is perception."

Isn't it amazing that one's perception is so powerful? It can become a prison and limitation to one's real growth/development, or it can propel one further and faster than one could ever imagine.

Ah, but at the same time, it can also be the very thing that destroys us – it can be powerful both ways like you said. It isn’t only that it limits us or imprisons us. It is the very thing that leads us to do wrong things (repeatedly too, I might add!) which keeps us trapped here. Even a seemingly “positive” perception – for example, that having a relationship is good – can ruin us in the end.

So in this case, when we are perceiving and critiquing lamas and the dharma it becomes a very tricky thing, especially as the karma involved here is quite a lot more “heavy”. Then what can we do?

I think the most accurate gauge is to rely on the wisdom of our teachers – we have chosen them for a reason, to guide us, after all! So if our teachers advise us not to bash other lamas (and I believe most sincere and genuine teachers would), then we should follow suit and understand their meaning: that it is not beneficial at this time to speak like this and it doesn’t help our or anyone else’s practice.

[WisdomBeing]

This is a good discussion - what is reality after all. From what i understand, everything is illusory, so i agree with what Beggar says - that we should rely on our teachers who have the wisdom we don't. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of Dharma students do not fully rely on their teachers, or are selective about what the teachers say. I have some friends  whose teacher told them not to protest for Tibetan independence but they still joined in the protests at Trafalgar Square (this was a few years ago). They justified that their teacher could not advise on political matters, which i felt was a cop out.

We can mostly justify anything. I know I'm quite an expert in that. We've been justifying all our lives in order to follow our own deluded paths. If we are fortunate enough to have a spiritual teacher, then we should go all the way with him or her because he or she would know better - i personally think it's quite liberating that someone knows what i should do rather than my fumbling in the dark, which hasn't served me well over the years.

just my reflection for the day.

[Lineageholder]

I disagree with what's being said here. I think we need to use our discriminating wisdom and not just lapse into a blanket pure view that anaesthetizes our ability to discriminate right from wrong, good from bad and harmful from beneficial.

It's quite possible that Mara could manifest as a famous Buddhist Teacher.  Don't you think this would be Mara's most effective disguise?  Being the wolf in sheep's clothing, he could do a lot of damage.  The thing is, he would do it by appearing publicly to follow the Buddhist teaching, garner a lot of praise and use his miracle powers to influence people to blindly follow a view that would be harmful to the Teaching.  He would cut the root of reliance on the Lineage Gurus by spreading doubts about their actions,  making the teachings dead in the water.  He would cut his own root of Guru devotion by declaring his Teachers to be wrong and claiming some special insight.  He would encourage people to mix traditions and would maintain a political correctness by not promoting the special views in Buddha's teachings but claiming that all traditions are the same.  He would appear to promote 'from the mouth' religious freedom, respect for other's views and religious harmony whilst causing deep divisions in the Buddhist community by taking sides in disputes and undermining the independent nature of Buddhist traditions, using his charisma and charm to cause people to follow wrong views.

How are you going to tell the difference between Buddha and Mara if this actually happens and you refuse to critically assess the actions of Buddhist teachers for fear of creating bad karma?  I think we need to respond appropriately to conventional appearances instead of denying them.

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Lineageholder,

I wish i had discriminating wisdom. Unfortunately I don't .. yet. In fact, it is precisely the fact that Mara can disguise himself as a Buddha, let alone a Buddhist teacher, that I would not trust my own ability to discriminate.

I think that we are advised to rely on our Gurus for guidance on especially these kind of issues, although in the absence of guidance, i would rely on the Dharma which tells me that i should not criticise the Sangha. How can i judge when i don't even really know what to judge by, since i hold no sangha vows myself. I remember Tenzin Sungrab has said in a previous post that he just follows the example of the great gurus, which is not to criticise, and i heartily agree with that.

Perhaps your teacher advises you to criticise so you are just following his example or teaching, which would be correct for you. However, i do believe that each person has their own spiritual teachers, which may differ from teacher to teacher, so i think it's best that we follow our teacher's advice.

I personally prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters because i'm truly afraid of adding to my already substantial negative karma.

Yours,
a wannabe discriminating wisdom being

[Robert Thomas]

I must say that personally I find it rather sad to see the lengths taken to justify or even praise the Dalai Lamas wrong views and actions as being somehow the deeds of a great being to further Dharma whilst at the same time showing the appearance of being embarrassed or ashamed of the actions of WSS, such as protests and A Great Deception. These activities of WSS seem to my mind to truly be wrathful actions whose purpose and result has been to stop or limit the power of those wrong views and actions. Also liberating many others to see the Dslai Lama's actions for what they are and therefore to break the spell of confusion that he had cast.