Author Topic: The four types of being  (Read 15534 times)

Small being

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2010, 11:42:29 AM »
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Victorious over the four types of being who, though they are proud to be counted among Buddhists, have fallen into the crevasse of inferior views

In Guide to the Middle Way Chandrakirti states that those who do not hold the Prasangika view will fall into the two extremes of existence and non-existence. They will perform impure actions which in the end lead them to the sufferings of countless future lives. Compared to the supreme view of the Prasangika, other views held by the four types of proponents of Buddhist tenets are regarded as inferior, and those who hold them have fallen into the 'crevasse' of either of the two extremes. This way of understanding makes perfect sense to me in the context of the Kangso sadhana.

SB

shugdenprotect

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2010, 02:51:22 PM »
Thank you for the very learned sharing on this thread.

The posting by SM about Vaibashikas, Sautantrikas, Chittamatrins and Madhyamika Svatantrikas is very interesting. It is explained by SB that these are the 4 lower schools. However, I would like to clarify: How does that link to Hinayana? Does it link at all?

Thank you in advance for your patience towards this "anti-climax" question.


Small being

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2010, 10:18:26 PM »
The posting by SM about Vaibashikas, Sautantrikas, Chittamatrins and Madhyamika Svatantrikas is very interesting. It is explained by SB that these are the 4 lower schools. However, I would like to clarify: How does that link to Hinayana? Does it link at all?

Hi shugdenprotect,

It is said that the first two of the four schools - Vaibashika and Sautantrika - are so-called Hinayana schools whereas the latter two - Chittamatra and Madhyamika - are considered to be Mahayana schools. From my understanding they are divided in this way because Buddha mainly taught the first two during his first turning the Wheel of Dharma when he expounded teachings that principally form the basis for the Hinayana. During his second and third turning the Wheel of Dharma he mainly taught the latter two, when expounding teachings that principally form the basis for the Mahayana.

Best wishes,
SB

DharmaDefender

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 04:58:19 AM »
The posting by SM about Vaibashikas, Sautantrikas, Chittamatrins and Madhyamika Svatantrikas is very interesting. It is explained by SB that these are the 4 lower schools. However, I would like to clarify: How does that link to Hinayana? Does it link at all?

Hi shugdenprotect,

It is said that the first two of the four schools - Vaibashika and Sautantrika - are so-called Hinayana schools whereas the latter two - Chittamatra and Madhyamika - are considered to be Mahayana schools. From my understanding they are divided in this way because Buddha mainly taught the first two during his first turning the Wheel of Dharma when he expounded teachings that principally form the basis for the Hinayana. During his second and third turning the Wheel of Dharma he mainly taught the latter two, when expounding teachings that principally form the basis for the Mahayana.

Best wishes,
SB

Thank you everyone for patiently answering my question

SB: does that mean enlightenment is not possible without tantra?

Small being

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 10:20:14 AM »
Hi DD,

I believe that Enlightenment is completely impossible without realising the Prasangika view of emptiness - at the deepest level of mind. To realise this deepest level of mind which is the mind of clear light, I believe we must rely upon the methods of Tantra, definitely.

It is for this reason that Duldzin Dorje Shugden appears the way he does, with a sword in his right hand and a heart in his left. The sword is telling us that he helps us cut the root of ignorance - grasping at inherent existence - and the heart is telling us that he helps us generate a mind of great compassion and clear light of bliss. In other words he is showing us that we need both wings of method and wisdom, in order to fly to the enlightened world.

SB

Lineageholder

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2010, 03:15:26 PM »
Hi DD,

I believe that Enlightenment is completely impossible without realising the Prasangika view of emptiness - at the deepest level of mind. To realise this deepest level of mind which is the mind of clear light, I believe we must rely upon the methods of Tantra, definitely.

It is for this reason that Duldzin Dorje Shugden appears the way he does, with a sword in his right hand and a heart in his left. The sword is telling us that he helps us cut the root of ignorance - grasping at inherent existence - and the heart is telling us that he helps us generate a mind of great compassion and clear light of bliss. In other words he is showing us that we need both wings of method and wisdom, in order to fly to the enlightened world.

SB

Beautiful!  Thanks for your words of wisdom.  :)

thaimonk

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 01:35:55 PM »
Yes it is wonderful SB can share dharma with us like a dharma student and not just bash and berade lamas.

This is what I welcome on this forum.


triesa

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 04:41:29 PM »
Thank you Small Being for your indepth answers and Dharma Defender for posting the question. I do the prayers everyday without realising there are so much that I don't know.

I really enjoy learning in this way.

Thank you again to everyone for making this a great DS hub filled with knowledge.

shugdenprotect

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2010, 09:41:01 AM »
Dear SB, thank you so very much for the precise explanation. Your explanation in addition to your respond to DD makes me feel and realize again how fortunate many of us are to have "access" to the Prasangika view and the protection of The Great King - Dultzin Dorje Shugden!

I pray that we will all practice well so that we will not waste this "access". Afterall, whether we succeed in our journey towards liberation is completely within our control based on our choices and actions.

Thank you again!!!

pgdharma

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2010, 01:52:56 PM »
Hi DD,

I believe that Enlightenment is completely impossible without realising the Prasangika view of emptiness - at the deepest level of mind. To realise this deepest level of mind which is the mind of clear light, I believe we must rely upon the methods of Tantra, definitely.

It is for this reason that Duldzin Dorje Shugden appears the way he does, with a sword in his right hand and a heart in his left. The sword is telling us that he helps us cut the root of ignorance - grasping at inherent existence - and the heart is telling us that he helps us generate a mind of great compassion and clear light of bliss. In other words he is showing us that we need both wings of method and wisdom, in order to fly to the enlightened world.

SB
Thank you Small Being for your sharing of this explanation. I have followed this forum for sometime and am glad that I can learn so much here. We are so lucky to have Dorje Shugden who cuts  the root of our ignorance and helps us generate a mind of great compassion and clear light of bliss. With the right method and wisdom, we can reach enlightenment. How fortunate we are and how kind of Dorje Shugden!!!

DharmaDefender

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2010, 11:57:08 AM »
Hi DD,

I believe that Enlightenment is completely impossible without realising the Prasangika view of emptiness - at the deepest level of mind. To realise this deepest level of mind which is the mind of clear light, I believe we must rely upon the methods of Tantra, definitely.

It is for this reason that Duldzin Dorje Shugden appears the way he does, with a sword in his right hand and a heart in his left. The sword is telling us that he helps us cut the root of ignorance - grasping at inherent existence - and the heart is telling us that he helps us generate a mind of great compassion and clear light of bliss. In other words he is showing us that we need both wings of method and wisdom, in order to fly to the enlightened world.

SB

Thank you for response SB, and for the additional explanation of Dorje Shugden's body which I have always been taught is the lamrim in visual form. Having said that, I've also been taught the heart is the heart of our real enemy, which is ignorance.

So with the Hinayana and Mahayana views, only a certain level of attainment is possible, for example up to a certain level of bodhisattva? I don't mean to sound sarky and I do find your explanation logical, but what is the basis / source for your belief that enlightenment is not possible without tantra? You know, just in case I have to quote it for someone's benefit...

Small being

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2010, 05:57:27 PM »
Hi DD,

Thanks for your post. What is DS heart? Uprooting ignorance sounds like a very nice explanation to me. Regarding Mahayana views: Tantra is part of the Mahayana. The whole point in practicing Tantra is to realize the Prasangika view at the deepest level of mind. Only then we can truly overcome self-grasping and its imprints. If you ask why? Because it's been taught so. Joking! It also makes sense as there is no mention of deeper levels of mind in Sutra, and no mention on how to overcome ignorance at deeper levels of mind. So we need Tantra. If you ask for scriptural reference, then - if you like a fresh presentation, I would like to refer you to books such as Mahamudra Tantra by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. If you like it more traditional, then probably Je Tsongkhapa's Stages of the Path of Secret Mantra would be a good read.

Best wishes,
SB

Big Uncle

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 03:41:59 AM »
I don't quite fully agree that Enlightenment is only possible with Tantra. Why? Buddha Shakyamuni achieved enlightenment without Tantra. He only taught Tantra as a method which he found to be suitable to a select group of students. Not all Buddhas are going to teach Tantra by the way... The next Buddha, Maitreya is only going to teach Sutra. Enlightenment is definitely possible using Sutric methods but the time required to achieve the same goal is far longer. So, the practice of Tantra is a matter of speed, effort and affinity as well.

Small being

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Re: The four types of being
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 12:51:31 PM »
Hi Big Uncle,

I agree with you when you say that Tantra is 'a matter of speed, effort and affinity' but would like to contradict when you state that Enlightenment is possible by Sutra methods alone. Would like to quote from 'Tantric Grounds and Paths' by Geshe Kelsang which illuminates the point I am trying to make:

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A direct realization of emptiness with a gross mind does not have the power to overcome the subtle dualistic appearances associated with the minds of white appearance, red increase and black near-attainment. The only way to abandon these subtle dualistic appearances is to realize emptiness directly with a very subtle mind of clear light. Since the methods for manifesting and using the very subtle mind of clear light are explained only in Tantra, anyone who wishes to attain Buddhahood definitely needs to enter this path.

'Anyone' also refers Sutra Bodhisattvas on the 10th ground.

Best wishes,
SB