Author Topic: Shugden Arising As A Yidam  (Read 44132 times)

spikyeddie

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2012, 05:06:48 AM »
If any of the Oracles of Dorje Shugden recognizes a tulku, I will trust and believe all the way. If there was no use for the Tulku system, Dorje Shugden would not entertain any inquiries. Also if the Tulku system was damaging, then of course, Dorje Shugden would not recognize any Tulkus.

The Tulku system is so very important within Tibetan Buddhism in general and within the Gelug system. We will die, we will reincarnate and we will take rebirth. So if we practice the tantras correctly, one of the side benefits is that we can control our rebirth. So two and two makes four. If we can take charge of our rebirth, then why not Tulkus.

Within Tulkus, there are many level of attainments also. Their ranks or height of their thrones do not always indicate their attainments. How far a tulku has progressed on the path in their previous lives is how much control they will have over their rebirths.

I for one, am all for the Tulku system which is alive, active and thriving. Many great Tulkus are able to return, be recognized and continue their work. It is very important for the Dorje Shugden lineage tulkus to return. It proves to everyone clearly that practicing Dorje Shugden does not bring negative states of rebirth. How can the worship of a Buddha such as Dorje Shugden bring damage in any way.

When we worship Dorje Shugden, we are worshipping Manjushri. Since we are worshipping Manjushri, we are connecting to all the matured wisdom of all Buddhas.  Therefore the 7 limbs offered to Dorje Shugden is equal to offering the 7 limbs to all the Buddhas of the ten directions and three times. It is incredible merits just to offer one light or a single stick of  incense to Dorje Shugden.

Easily from Dorje Shugden's side, we can say he is a yidam. But from the path of presentation of his puja text, he is propitiated as protector. It would be wonderful if Dorje Shugden can be used as a Yidam with the full generation and completion stages of the highest yoga tantra included within his practice. It would require that we request Dorje Shugden via the oracles to give such text or a highly accomplished level lama can compose one such as Pabongka Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche, or Gaden Trisur Lungrik Namgyal. It would be the first text of it's kind and highly blessed as the lineage is short and hence making it quick in attainments. I wish very much a text and practice for Dorje Shugden to be practiced as a yidam would arise. I would IMMEDIATELY engage in the practice and await the festival of attainments to be gained in order to benefit others to happen.

tk

Thank you for the insight, tk. Dorje Shugden is Manjushri. Praying to Dorje Shugden is equivalent to praying to Manjushri and we tap into the wisdom of all the Buddhas. If there is a need, I don't see why Dorje Shugden wouldn't arises as a Yidam. He's fully enlightened and fully capable to be a Yidam. If Manjushri can be a Yidam, Dorje Shugden who is Manjushri, can equally be a Yidam.

harrynephew

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #76 on: September 24, 2012, 06:03:39 AM »
I have been thinking alot about this subject on how different this would be in reference to other protectors deities and also meditational Yidams and how it would affect mankind.

Dorje Shugden is with no doubt an Enlightened Being with the same attainments as that of Buddha Shakyamuni and Je Tsongkhapa. How he chooses to manifest himself is entirely dependent on not only his attainments but the needs and disposition of the people whom he will be helping.

Having arisen as an uncommon protector to the Gaden tradition(that is enlightened on the inside but portrays a worldly manner) He has both benefitted the masses of people both lay and ordained and also brought Buddhism of the Ganden tradition into the forefront of the world. Never mind who and how he protects, the results of Dorje Shugden having manifested in this form during this day and time has shown inconceivable results which has brought us here to help spread the good word of benefit.

On a personal level, Dorje Shugden does not look like another deity in Buddhism who is stucked within the Tibetan community but instead an entity which would be like a messiah to the new world chucked with the side effects of modernization(depression, anxiety, desperation, you name it, we all have it, and it is all growing and festering in our silly minds).

In the interim of the outbreak of modern illness, Dorje Shugden has chosen its form to help people though in the scriptures it is stated that he manifests himself in various forms to subdue the minds of people, it is evident that someday in the near future(I hope!) that he would manifest himself as a meditational deity who would calm the minds down and help people in coping with their lives and eventually lead them into enlightenment.

Depression, anxiety, and other forms of mental illness seems to be a choice these days. It is rarely a medical case within mental institutes that when u look deeper is someone or some entity forcing the mentally disturbed person to act in such a way. With this as a basis, it is rather evident that meditation in the proper way will help heal these afflicted people.

I pray that Dorje Shugden will manifest himself as a Yidam within all four classes of Tantras to be able to help these difficult  people, pouring cure and attainments to them.
Harry Nephew

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lotus1

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2012, 11:08:39 AM »
Thank you for bringing this topic. After reading what is the differences between a Yidam and a Dharma protector, ( http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1223.msg15631#msg15631), from the Buddha aspect, there is no different Dorje Shugden from Manjushri. However, from the prayers/meditation/practices aspect, a Yidam and a Dharma Protector prayers will evoke different things and bring about different results in our mindstream. E.g. yidam practices focus more on mind transformation, dharma protector practices focus on aspects such as confessions / making serkym offerings which help us to remove obstacles. So, there are slight differences and Yidam & a Dharma Protector complement one another in our practices.
Therefore, it would be wonderful to have text/prayers for Dorje Shugden to be practiced as a yidam. Then it will have even greater effects & benefits to practice Dorje Shugden as he is so much closer to us. I am sure more people will be benefited from Dorje Shugden too!

Ensapa

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2012, 07:53:38 AM »
I would really like to see Dorje Shugden arise as a yidam. Why? Because he has close proximity with us and he can benefit us more easily than just a normal Dharma protector. His peaceful aspect, Duldzin, is known to give Dharma talks when in trance and has even given initiations before. Perhaps someone could request Duldzin to manifest as a Yidam or give us transmissions as one.

vajratruth

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #79 on: December 13, 2012, 07:57:13 PM »
Personally, I think that most average person, myself included, would not be seeking Enlightenment when we first enter into Dharma. To be exact, I just wanted to find a better way to deal with my list of personal issues. However, as time passed by, I find myself more focused and my desire to learn the Dharma began to shift as my mind shifted.

I think, for whatever reason a person may start practising the Dharma, with Protector Practice, all their obstacles will be removed in order for each person to learn the REAL DHARMA.

It may begin as a personal wish-fulfilling practice but it will change into a wish fulfilling practice to benefit others as well as self.

As Dorje Shugden's main purpose is ultimately to bring people to do the Dharma, HE will work to remove all obstacles to each person and bring about what he or she desires in order for real faith to arise in him or her. Once people's faith arises in Dorje Shugden, HE will undoubtedly move them into the TRUE DHARMA practice. And that will be Lam Rim.

To me, it matters not how each start, it is what they end up practising or realising that makes all the difference in their world.

As Dorje Shugden is swift, so will each person's path to Enlightenment - whether they know it or not, whether they want it or not in the beginning.

Helena, it is a real joy reading what you have written here. There is such a lot of great information in this post, that I was beginning to get lost and developing mental indigestion from trying to consume all the knowledge herein, although I would certainly come back for more. Like you said, I certainly did not come into Dharma with expectations of receiving empowerment into any higher practice nor could I conceive of the state of enlightenment that can be had. Sure it is a nice aspiration but hardly realistic when I am still struggling with the basic mind transformation practices.

However, if attaining Buddhahood is a process by which I am to transform myself into a body of perfect enlightenment by eliminating my afflictive emotions that shrouds my elusive true nature as we are told, and meditating on a yidam is a part of that process, then Dorje Shugden is in many ways already my yidam-in-waiting because every aspect of the Protector's practice is to help me deal with and remove the destructive feelings that I, like many struggle with. We all know how we are each afflicted by our own minds and how difficult it is to tackle our infirmities by ourselves and this is where Dorje Shugden certainly helps.

When we sit in quiet communion with the Protector and establish a connection with him, we become aware of the kind of thoughts he wants us to have, the kind of speech that would please him and the kind of bodily conduct that he would approve of. We just know if we are open to him. The more we come to know and trust Dorje Shugden the more we sense him, and from there the more we realize who this special Protector is, and the more we become aware of who we are not, and who we can be. I have always thought that if I could hold the Protector in my mind all the time and not let go for some random thought, my Dharma practice would improve as a matter of natural progression. Perhaps that is a bit too simplistic but it is a thought.

For me, Dorje Shugden is special and I am not alone when I say that he is a Buddha that I feel I have a real relationship with (and how fortunate for us that Dorje Shugden has taken the form he has, so that we can actually do that). And so it was a pleasant surprise when I read Chogyam Trungpa saying, "choosing" a yidam is a "choiceless choice" meaning it is not a function of the mind but a function of the heart. It is a relationship. Therefore if my Protector can also arise as my yidam, it is a real bonus and I am sure Dorje Shugden will reveal himself to be so when I am adequately practiced. The details will take care of themselves.

Thank you for this post.

dsiluvu

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2012, 07:13:39 AM »
"Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector who has arisen in this form specifically to safeguard our Dharma practice. Therefore, the very moment we begin our spiritual connection with him through our prayers, offerings and refuge is the moment he begins his work to sustain us on the spiritual path."

"Yidam is a means mental bond or mind link. It refers to vivid meditations designed to bring the
Buddha’s teaching to life in one’s mind as quickly as possible." In other words practitioner's mind eventually becomes one with the Yidam, having the same qualities.

If the two were combined in to one practice... we really need not seek any other other practice because it would so complete and whole.

Right now we would need to do our Yidam practice e.g. Manjushri first and it is separate from the Protector's practice... but if both of them were combined as one, for today's modern day practitioner, it would so helpful and the path would be quicker I would presume.

Definitely it would be such a delight to have such a practice made available for today's modern busy people who wishes everything to be quick and easy... sad to say but it is a true fact. Although I myself am quite happy and comfortable with my Yidam and Protector practice as it is now... but thinking more for those who are new... it would be less complicated and easier to grasp.

If it is suited I am sure the Dorje Shugden would manifest something.

Ensapa

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #81 on: December 15, 2012, 11:17:16 AM »

Definitely it would be such a delight to have such a practice made available for today's modern busy people who wishes everything to be quick and easy... sad to say but it is a true fact. Although I myself am quite happy and comfortable with my Yidam and Protector practice as it is now... but thinking more for those who are new... it would be less complicated and easier to grasp.

If it is suited I am sure the Dorje Shugden would manifest something.

I dont think we should wait for the protector to give it to us, I think we should request earnestly to show our sincerity and enthusiasm towards something that would be so beneficial to so many people, because for all Buddhist teachings, we do request the teacher before they are taught, traditionally so we should logically do the same for a Yidam practice from Dorje Shugden himself. We should be more proactive for Dharma practices that will benefit many in particular, as it will create the causes for us to receive and understand more Dharma.

dsiluvu

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2012, 12:22:39 PM »

Definitely it would be such a delight to have such a practice made available for today's modern busy people who wishes everything to be quick and easy... sad to say but it is a true fact. Although I myself am quite happy and comfortable with my Yidam and Protector practice as it is now... but thinking more for those who are new... it would be less complicated and easier to grasp.

If it is suited I am sure the Dorje Shugden would manifest something.

I dont think we should wait for the protector to give it to us, I think we should request earnestly to show our sincerity and enthusiasm towards something that would be so beneficial to so many people, because for all Buddhist teachings, we do request the teacher before they are taught, traditionally so we should logically do the same for a Yidam practice from Dorje Shugden himself. We should be more proactive for Dharma practices that will benefit many in particular, as it will create the causes for us to receive and understand more Dharma.

True Ensapa! What would be the best way to request for such a wonderful teaching? The oracle Or the current Pabongkha RInpoche or Trijang Rinpoche? Do you know what would be requirements? A Clean Samaya?


Ensapa

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2013, 04:11:24 AM »
True Ensapa! What would be the best way to request for such a wonderful teaching? The oracle Or the current Pabongkha RInpoche or Trijang Rinpoche? Do you know what would be requirements? A Clean Samaya?

we could request directly from the oracle himself as that is Dorje Shugden, what could be better than requesting it directly from the wisdom being himself? It would be auspicious indeed, unless he tells us to request from another Lama. Clean samaya is definitely a must for any tantric practice, and there is no exception with Dorje Shugden as well if he arises as a Yidam. But to me, he is already a Yidam as he gives advice and blessings as well in addition to protection.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2015, 04:50:40 PM »
"Yidam is a means mental bond or mind link. It refers to vivid meditations designed to bring the
Buddha’s teaching to life in one’s mind as quickly as possible." In other words practitioner's mind eventually becomes one with the Yidam, having the same qualities." Quote from dsiluvu.

In these days of ''busyness'' it would be much easier to have Dorje Shugden both as the Protector and Yidam. From understanding of the above from disluvu, and since Dorje Shugden is the uncommon protector of Je Tsongkapa's doctrine, it seem possible to have the Yidam and Protector as one.

Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and that alone will suffice for being a Yidam. 

psylotripitaka

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Re: Shugden Arising As A Yidam
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2015, 07:18:14 PM »
Dondrup Shugden, Dorje Shugden is a Dharmapala, not a Yidam. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I have never heard of deity Yoga practice as this Dharmapala. Though we regard him as the Guru, Yidam, and Protector, this is a subtle meaning in relation to Guru Yoga as the heart of the path, and does not mean we actually do self-generation as Dorje Shugden.