Author Topic: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!  (Read 21892 times)

beggar

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2010, 08:54:24 AM »
By the way, I just checked and there is a very detailed account of Trijang Rinpoche that is back up on Wikipedia - is this the same entry that a few of you had quoted above? Here is it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijang_Rinpoche

WisdomBeing

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2010, 09:51:09 AM »
By the way, I just checked and there is a very detailed account of Trijang Rinpoche that is back up on Wikipedia - is this the same entry that a few of you had quoted above? Here is it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trijang_Rinpoche


I was just reading through the earlier posts - true impermanence! One minute here, gone tomorrow.. and then back again. Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Small being

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2010, 02:13:57 PM »
Delighted to see HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio back up on Wikipedia! Strongly agree with you, Wisdom Being,

The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!

SB



Lone Hermit

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2010, 10:35:36 PM »
Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!


There's no evidence the TGIE wants to eradicate Trijang so why make such a suggestion?  HHDL and Trijang Choktrul enjoy a very good relationship as shown here: www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl
and Rinpoche himself has declared  his affection and respect for HH as his guru and preceptor while making it very clear his decision to disrobe and go to America was due to his fear of over zealous Shugden practitioners. It would seem that on the basis of Rinpoches own words any threat to him is not from the TGIE but the very people who try to claim him as their own.  http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090

Zach

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2010, 10:42:47 PM »
Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!


There's no evidence the TGIE wants to eradicate Trijang so why make such a suggestion?  HHDL and Trijang Choktrul enjoy a very good relationship as shown here: www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl
and Rinpoche himself has declared  his affection and respect for HH as his guru and preceptor while making it very clear his decision to disrobe and go to America was due to his fear of over zealous Shugden practitioners. It would seem that on the basis of Rinpoches own words any threat to him is not from the TGIE but the very people who try to claim him as their own.  http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090


Respectfully sir...I point out your BS.

Lone Hermit

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2010, 11:20:46 PM »
Respectfully sir...I point out your BS.

No need to be rude just read Rinpoches radio interview. His words not mine. Unless of course you have some evidence to the contrary.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 11:24:47 PM by Lone Hermit »

WisdomBeing

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2010, 01:25:24 AM »
Thanks for the good news, Beggar. HH Trijang Rinpoche's bio should be on Wikipedia and everywhere and anywhere so as many people as possible can learn about this incredible being! Post it everywhere guys! The TGIE can try all they want but they CANNOT eradicate this Lama!


There's no evidence the TGIE wants to eradicate Trijang so why make such a suggestion?  HHDL and Trijang Choktrul enjoy a very good relationship as shown here: www.tbiusa.org/dedications/hhdl
and Rinpoche himself has declared  his affection and respect for HH as his guru and preceptor while making it very clear his decision to disrobe and go to America was due to his fear of over zealous Shugden practitioners. It would seem that on the basis of Rinpoches own words any threat to him is not from the TGIE but the very people who try to claim him as their own.  http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090



Dear Lone Hermit,

I don't doubt that HH Trijang Rinpoche has affection and respect for HH Dalai Lama.

Re my earlier post, I was referring to this:

"I doubt however that this campaign will stop there.

If you didn’t know, they have already “CLEANED UP” the LAM RIM lineage prayer and REMOVED "Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name from that lineage.

Sherig Pharkhang, the official printer for the Department of Religion and Culture, has even removed Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name mantra from the consecration mantras that they print.

This means that if one were to order the collection of mantras that are used to fill statues, stupas and many holy objects they WILL NOT INCLUDE Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang."

Some may wonder why we fight? Look back at the photo of young Kyabje Choktrul Rinpoche arm being held by the Dalia Lama and then think of this fact and look again into the eyes of the Dalia Lama and you see as we have said, an Imposter!

(extracted from Thomas David Canada in the Guestbook: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/Guestbook/ )

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Helena

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2010, 02:27:02 AM »
Yes, that is right. I read the same thing and it is very sad.

If they (whoever the powers may be, and it looks like only a certain group has that kind of power) have systematically removed HH Trijang Dorje Chang's name from the mantras, then is that not the same as eradicating Trijang Rinpoche in the most obvious way?

After all, when we recite all the names of these past Masters and Gurus - among other things, we are remembering all their qualities as well as upholding the lineage in which all the teachings are being transmitted from one generation to another. As we all know, the lineage's blessings lies in the transmission and the recitation of these high lama's names.

To me, that is as good as destroying a lineage, not just a lama.

Helena

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2010, 02:41:33 AM »
Personally, I would think that it benefits more and more people when everyone posts more valuable information about these great Lamas everywhere. There should not be any concern for copyright infringements if the real purpose is to spread the Dharma and to clarify what has been grossly misunderstood about a high Lama, a Deity, a lineage or prayer.

If someone or group is upset about their articles or works being posted in other places, then how can dharma really spread? Then perhaps it is not really about promoting the dharma that one is so concerned about. Then may be one is more concerned about the glory one gets from writing such an article or creating such a work. Its more about self-recognition and self-praise then. That's the way I would see it.

May be it is just me - but if we truly cared about the misunderstandings and unfair discrimination that are being hurled at certain Gurus, and at our Protector, Dorje Shugden - then we should be very happy to create and allow as many information and facts to surface and spread in order to dispel the misunderstandings, to clarify and most of all, to cultivate deeper understanding.

Is that not what we want - to promote our Protector, to promote more Dharma and peace to all?

Just sharing my thoughts openly here.
Helena

WisdomBeing

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2010, 03:39:21 AM »
Personally, I would think that it benefits more and more people when everyone posts more valuable information about these great Lamas everywhere. There should not be any concern for copyright infringements if the real purpose is to spread the Dharma and to clarify what has been grossly misunderstood about a high Lama, a Deity, a lineage or prayer.

If someone or group is upset about their articles or works being posted in other places, then how can dharma really spread? Then perhaps it is not really about promoting the dharma that one is so concerned about. Then may be one is more concerned about the glory one gets from writing such an article or creating such a work. Its more about self-recognition and self-praise then. That's the way I would see it.

May be it is just me - but if we truly cared about the misunderstandings and unfair discrimination that are being hurled at certain Gurus, and at our Protector, Dorje Shugden - then we should be very happy to create and allow as many information and facts to surface and spread in order to dispel the misunderstandings, to clarify and most of all, to cultivate deeper understanding.

Is that not what we want - to promote our Protector, to promote more Dharma and peace to all?

Just sharing my thoughts openly here.


You bring up a good point, Helena.

I was told that when we do Dharma, we must always ensure our motivation is free from the Eight Worldly Preoccupations, namely:

The eight worldly preoccupations (or concerns) or samsaric dharmas (Wyl. ‘jig rten chos brgyad) are where all one’s actions are governed by:

    * hope for happiness and fear of suffering,
    * hope for fame and fear of insignificance,
    * hope for praise and fear of blame,
    * hope for gain and fear of loss;

basically attachment and aversion.

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Eight_worldly_preoccupations

(hmm am i gonna be done for copyright infringement for posting this here)

I know it's not easy to be free of these preoccupations after lifetimes about being concerned about this is MINE. Again, it's the hippy in me who wishes that everything belongs to everyone. Yes, sometimes I wish I could be living in a commune at Findhorn :)

I agree with you that if we have a Dharma motivation, we should be happy if what we are writing is spread everywhere - whether we have the credit or not shouldn't matter. But saying that, i guess we have to understand that people are at different levels in the Dharma, which is why some people will react if they see what is perceived as theirs being used. So we have to have compassion for them because they don't know better. That will help us have less frustration. Saying that, I don't mean that we don't try to help them, which you are doing here in your post. :)



Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Lone Hermit

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2010, 10:11:58 AM »

Dear Lone Hermit,

I don't doubt that HH Trijang Rinpoche has affection and respect for HH Dalai Lama.

Re my earlier post, I was referring to this:

"I doubt however that this campaign will stop there.

If you didn’t know, they have already “CLEANED UP” the LAM RIM lineage prayer and REMOVED "Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name from that lineage.

Sherig Pharkhang, the official printer for the Department of Religion and Culture, has even removed Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang’s name mantra from the consecration mantras that they print.

This means that if one were to order the collection of mantras that are used to fill statues, stupas and many holy objects they WILL NOT INCLUDE Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang."

(extracted from Thomas David Canada in the Guestbook: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/Guestbook/ )



OK I see what you mean WB thanks. Can anyone else prove that this is really happening because I don't think our recently departed friend TC is a reliable source. It would be good if someone who lives in India and reads Tibetan can confirm it.

Quote
Helena says:
If they (whoever the powers may be, and it looks like only a certain group has that kind of power) have systematically removed HH Trijang Dorje Chang's name from the mantras, then is that not the same as eradicating Trijang Rinpoche in the most obvious way?


Yes 'IF' so some proof would be nice and probably even necessary before we go around making accusations like this. Even if it's true it doesn't change the fact that Rinpoche seems to enjoy a good relationship with HHDL and vice versa - I'm sure HH didn't go to Trijang Institute in Vermont uninvited and I would be surprised if the picture of His Holiness in not on display in the shrine room. It would be interesting to have confirmation of this one way or the other as well.

It looks like lot of people want to believe there is a serious rift between these two holy beings, as if there was a major breach in their spiritual relationship, but that doesn't seem to be the case. IMHO Rinpoche shows a good example in choosing to distance himself from the messy and sometimes violent politics of the Shugden affair without abandoning his connection to the protector and without any implied or actual criticism of HH or the monasteries and Lamas who have given up the practice.

beggar

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2010, 11:22:04 AM »
It is true that the "dilemma" that Trijang Rinpoche faces is the same that many countless lamas go through today. This is what makes it very difficult and many find themselves on both sides of the the camp without intending to go against either side. From the average practitioner to high lamas, there is a definite and strong conflict that many have to struggle with as they attempt to reconcile their practice of the protector with their continued respect and allegiance to the dalai lama.

This is why it is quite sad to see that many people are quick to criticise the dalai lama or, on the other hand, go all out to crush DS practitioners. the situation becomes split into two extremes, so either you practice ds but must speak against dalai lama or you follow dalai lama but must denounce ds. There is a huge, huge majority that exist in the "grey area" in between the two. We just don't hear about them because they are not up in arms speaking against any side. They are quietly doing their practices while refusing to say anything bad about either side.

This is why I also find it quite sad when I am criticised for not speaking against the dalai lama or criticising him because I know for a sure fact that there are many people out there who also choose to not speak against the dalai lama and see him still as their teacher, as Chenrezig. It is also confusing and difficult for them to hear negativities hurled against the dalai lama in the same way that it hurts for them to hear bad things being done to ds practitioners and places of worship.

Lamas like Trijang Rinpoche demonstrate a lot of courage for us because he is forced into a spotlight where he HAS to speak for or against one side. Even then, he shows us with his great wisdom and skilfulness how to still not speak against either and still attempt to maintain good relations with as many people as possible. What a true sign of a great lama and an example we can all follow to bring more peace around us. Sometimes, unfortunately, it looks like we don't have a choice but to sit on a fence for awhile until the time is right and this is not always a bad thing.

yours, beggar

beggar

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2010, 11:24:36 AM »
There has also been some earlier discussion about Trijang Rinpoche's name being removed from mantras. It comes from the same source (Thomas Canada, as extracted from the guestbook):

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=744.0

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2010, 11:27:15 AM »
This is the way it should be. We do not give up or practice of dorje shugden. We create awareness among the general public regarding his practice the best we can eg by giving brochures is one way. We help those students who wish to help the monks of dorje shugden monasteries eg tenzin sungrab. We donate to Tenzin Sungrab. We can become pen pals of monks at Serpom/Shar Gaden. Sponsor them. Get information about them and post it here and everywhere to create awareness. Send monetary donations to them.  Post information here that are relevant/educational/and informational that will educate the thousands of readers who visit here and have a right to know what is happening. Negative rhetoric on the Dalai Lama convinces no one and impresses no one. These are some positive and constructive ways to expend our energy and resources for Dorje Shugen's cause.

We may not agree with some of Dalai Lama's policies. We make our stance clear, we write letters and and we refrain from harsh descriptives such as liar, dictator and hypocrite. We must present the information without sounding fanatical or motivated by anger. When we present the information such as on this forum, WE LET THE READERS DECIDE IF DALAI LAMA IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING.

It is important NEVER TO HAVE HATE SITES THAT explicitly and obviously slander the Dalai Lama. Because we are Buddhists. Dorje Shugden would never approve of that.  And it would be much better to present the information to the public and newcomers in a even and fair manner. In the end, we want Dalai Lama to retract his ban and words against Shugden, but we do not want Dalai Lama harmed in anyway. It does us no good.

So this is important to understand here. I may not be screaming down with the Dalai Lama but that does not mean I agree with his policy on Shugden. But I choose Buddhist methods that does not infringe on my Bodhisattva/tantric vows to get the point across. After all, after I die, I face my karma. The intent is good, but the method must accord.

tk

beggar

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's sacred name being smeared!
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2010, 12:18:46 PM »
Negative rhetoric on the Dalai Lama convinces no one and impresses no one. These are some positive and constructive ways to expend our energy and resources for Dorje Shugen's cause.


I couldn't have said it better. Thank you tk!

More than that, negative rhetoric, like tk has pointed out, also reflects very badly on us ds practitioners. People just take one look at a new report and will think, "why are there buddhists in robes standing on the street protesting against their own pope?" It doesn't matter if the protest is a peaceful protest or if they are throwing bottles and setting fires. The general public still sees that it is a protest and they wonder why a supposedly non-attached buddhist should be protesting against their own people!


When we present the information such as on this forum, WE LET THE READERS DECIDE IF DALAI LAMA IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING.   

this is most important. allow people to come to an informed decision with all the facts in place. any other way turns people's minds by fear, confusion or pressure which will then never be a firm and stable stand where they really understand what they are supposedly believing in or siding with.

there is a big misunderstanding that just because you do not denounce the dalai lama, it means you are not a "real" ds practitioner. this is such an illogical accusation. on the contrary, a real ds practitioner would never criticise or speak badly of ANYONE, least of all another lama.

Isn't dharma about learning, knowledge and understanding? then be a real dharma practitioner by giving this to others so they can form their own informed decisions. if they decide to do ds practice, then it comes from a "clear and clean" place that is not based upon hating the dalai lama or hating anyone for that matter.