Author Topic: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?  (Read 27782 times)

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2010, 12:38:01 AM »
The image can be found in the pictures thread. I just took out the portion of Kyabje Takpu Dorje Chang and Kyabje Pabongkha Dorje Chang.

It is a great picture and presents the lineage as it was received by Je Pabongkha.


For your convenience - here's the link to the picture in the gallery:
http://dorjeshugden.com/images/gallery2/clear-resolution.jpg

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

WoselTenzin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2010, 04:43:30 AM »
Thank you very much to everyone for all your explanations.  I have summarized my understanding from the discussion above as follows:-

Dagpo Lama Rinpoche Jampael Lhuendrub Gyatso
-  root Lama of Pabongka Rinpoche
 - this is not the Lama who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment of Dorje Shugden

Tagphu Padmavajra
– also root Lama of Pabongka Rinpoche
- went to Tushita Heaven and received the teachings/empowerment from Dorje Shugden

Dagpo Kelsang Kedrub
- is two generation above Pabongka Rinpoche, guru of Dagpo Lama Rinpoche Jampael Lhuendrub Gyatso who was Pabongka Rinpoche’s root lama
- may have composed the praise to Dorje Shugden as mentioned in Trijang Rinpoche’s commentary in Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors but not necessarily have gone to Tushita
- he is not a guru of Pabangka Rinpoche.

Please confirm if I have understood correctly.  The close similarity of the names of these Lamas is quite confusing to me. 

Also, I have one question.  Who transmitted Lamrin to Pabongka Rinpoche??  Was it Dagpo Lama Rinpoche Jampael Lhuendrub Gyatso or Tagphu Padmavajra??

HELP!!!

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2010, 09:34:09 AM »
Dear WT,

Thanks for summarising the whole info in this thread to make it easier for the rest of us. I also hope that someone can help shed more light into this. It is confusing indeed as sometimes some Lamas' names have been spelt differently but it is the same Lama, and sometimes it is two different persons.

I second the call for HELP.

Thank you all in advance.
Helena

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2010, 09:43:34 AM »
Wosel... i'm curious - can one person have TWO root Lamas? I thought that we only have a single root Guru who is the teacher who made the biggest impact on us?

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

thor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1431
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2010, 11:04:03 AM »
Wosel... i'm curious - can one person have TWO root Lamas? I thought that we only have a single root Guru who is the teacher who made the biggest impact on us?



I do not have an answer to your question from any text or reference, but by logic, perhaps I can offer an explanation.

The definition of root lama or Tsawai Lama is the lama under whom you learn the most, who is able to bring you furthest in your spiritual journey, your spiritual guide and spiritual friend.

To say that there can be only one root lama is too confining. Just as one's yidam can change over the course of one's life, according to what one's need is at the time, then logically so too can one have different root lamas for different periods of one's life.

Another way to look at a root lama is by different areas of practice. To have one root lama for say, sutra, and another for tantra, with each lama being supremely qualified in their special area of expertise, perhaps this is another explanation for having more than one root lama.

Any comments would be appreciated  :)

Vajraprotector

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 610
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2010, 02:39:56 PM »
I too was quite confused until I read through this below. Hope it helps! Although I still have some questions to ask (later!). WoselTenzin has summarised the facts correctly.



a) Tagphu Padmavajra (1876-1935) – one of Pabongkha Rinpoche’s Root Guru whom he met EARLIER, who went to Tushita to receive teachings on Dorje Shugden

Tagphu Padmavajra was born in 1876, and at age 13 he entered Drepung Monastery and studied the Five Great Classic Texts. At age 19 he returned to Kham. Then again at age 30 he returned to Central Tibet for a pilgrimage. In particular according to a secret prophecy from his tutelary deity, Tagphu Dorje Chang purposely came to Central Tibet and met with Pabongkha Rinpoche.

In the iron bird year (1921) and several times earlier, Dorje Shugden entered a human medium to request Pabongkha Rinpoche to write a new life entrustment ritual. Pabongkha first wrote the “seed text” for this but felt it was inadequate. So he gave this “seed text” to Tagphu Rinpoche and made detailed requests to him. Tagphu Rinpoche later travelled to Tushita pure land and received this initiation from Je Tsongkhapa and Dulzin Dragpa Gyaltsen.
From: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1876.html


b) Dagpo Jampel Lhundrub (1845-1919) - one of Pabongkha Rinpoche’s Root Guru who taught Pabongkha Rinpoche Lamrim

i) One evening Pabongkha Rinpoche heard of the unsurpassed Dagpo Lama Rinpoche (Dagpo Lama Jampel Lhundrub)   residing in the Dagpo region. At this time Pabongkha Rinpoche requested Tagphu Rinpoche for advice on when he should go to Dagpo Rinpoche (Dagpo Lama Jampel Lhundrub)   and how long he should stay there.
From: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1876.html

ii) When he  (Pabongkha Rinpoche) was young, he received lamrim teachings from Dagpo Lama Jampel Lhundrub, and when the customary ritual for generation of bodhichitta was held at the end of the teachings, he actually generated bodhichitta. When this happened, Jampel Lhundrub ordered a throne to be set up for the young Phabongka. On hearing the Sevenfold Cause-and-Effect instructions for the first time, his mind was greatly moved, and he wept.
From: Chod in the Ganden Tradition The Oral Instructions of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche By Kyabje Zong Rinpoche Snow lion 2006


c) Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub – Lineage guru of Pabongkha Rinpoche

Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub is listed in Pabongkha Rinpoche’s works as a lineage lama. Pabongkha Rinpoche mentions that this particular tradition has a long history of great masters in the Dagpo region who achieved great results in conjunction with the Heruka body mandala. These masters were most likely hermits, dwelling in rural Dagpo, isolated from the Lhasa traditions.

Thus, their works and lives are less well known, and it was Pabongkha Rinpoche through his connection with Dagpo Jampel Lhundrub (1845-1919) [one of his root Gurus] who brought them and their southern tradition of this Lam-Rim out of obscurity.
Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub received this lineage from Kelsang Tenzin, and Dagpo Kelsang Khedrub later passed it on to Dagpo Jampel Lhundrub, who in turn passed it on to Pabongkha Rinpoche, as quoted from Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand:

He gave the teaching to the powerful adept Kaelzang Kaedrub, who also achieved his clairvoyant powers through the Chakrasamvara practices. My own precious guru, my refuge and protector, heard the teachings from him.

From: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1800a.html


« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 03:54:47 PM by Vajraprotector »

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2010, 07:13:46 AM »
Just to add to this topic:

http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/ribur-rinpoche-on-je-pabongka/

His root guru was Dagpo Lama Rinpoche Jampael Lhuendrub Gyatso, from Lhoka. He was Je Pabongka's Root Guru, Dagpo Bamcho definitely a bodhisattva, and Pabongka Rinpoche was his foremost disciple. He lived in a cave in Pasang and his main practice was bodhichitta; his main deity was Avalokiteshvara and he would recite 50,000 manis [the mantra, om mani padme hum] every night. When Kyabje Pabongka first met Dagpo Rinpoche at a tsog offering ceremony in Lhasa, he cried out of reverence from beginning to end.

The attached is a picture of Dagpo Lama Rinpoche Jampael Lhuendrub Gyatso.
(more info here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagpo_Rinpoche)


Strange... The current Dagpo Rinpoche who is residing in France gave me the above picture as his past incarnation.  Surely he isn't mistaken.

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2010, 05:21:50 AM »
Just to add to this topic:

http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/ribur-rinpoche-on-je-pabongka/

His root guru was Dagpo Lama Rinpoche Jampael Lhuendrub Gyatso, from Lhoka. He was Je Pabongka's Root Guru, Dagpo Bamcho definitely a bodhisattva, and Pabongka Rinpoche was his foremost disciple. He lived in a cave in Pasang and his main practice was bodhichitta; his main deity was Avalokiteshvara and he would recite 50,000 manis [the mantra, om mani padme hum] every night. When Kyabje Pabongka first met Dagpo Rinpoche at a tsog offering ceremony in Lhasa, he cried out of reverence from beginning to end.

The attached is a picture of Dagpo Lama Rinpoche Jampael Lhuendrub Gyatso.
(more info here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagpo_Rinpoche)


Strange... The current Dagpo Rinpoche who is residing in France gave me the above picture as his past incarnation.  Surely he isn't mistaken.



Dear Icy,

i do believe that the Dagpo Rinpoche currently residing in France is the incarnation of Dagpo Rinpoche mentioned in this article, (http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/ribur-rinpoche-on-je-pabongka/) so he is definitely not mistaken!

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Helena

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2010, 07:19:56 AM »
Thank you all for providing lots of valuable information and especially to, VajraProtect who took the time to list down the various Tagphu, and Dagpo Rinpoches.

I am very glad that there is a Forum like this for continuous learning and sharing of information.

Thank you again and have a good night.
Helena

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Who went to Tushita Heaven to receive the empowerment from Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2010, 09:52:41 AM »
Dear WB

So I see .... Dagpo Rinpoche's past incarnation is not Tagpu Pema Vajra and hence that black and white picture (dakpo bamchoe) of Dagpo Rinpoche's past incarnation which you posted in this forum is not Tagpu Pema Vajra.  Is that so?