Author Topic: A pledge from a Forum member  (Read 22609 times)

a friend

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A pledge from a Forum member
« on: July 04, 2010, 08:09:15 PM »

Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen WILL NEVER BE SILENCED!
Dulzin Drakpa Gyeltsen will never be silenced!!
Panchen Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Dakpo Dorje Chang will never be silenced!
Pabongka DORJE CHANG WILL NEVER BE SILENCED!
TRIJANG DORJE CHANG WILL NEVER BE SILENCED!
Zong Dorje Chang will never be silenced!!
Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Geshe Tendar Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Kaybje Zemey Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Kyabje Geshe Rabten will never be silenced!
Kyabje Denma Gonsa Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Sogpu Rinpoche Guru Deva will never be silenced!
Kyabje Dromo Geshe Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Lama Yeshe will never be silenced!
Serkong Dorje Chang will never be silenced!
Kenchen Geshe Yeshe Wangchuk will never be silenced!
Kyabje Daknak Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Serkong Tritul Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Kyabje Gangchen Rinpoche will never be silenced!
His Eminence Geshe Kelsang Gyatso will never be silenced!
Para Dorje Chang will never be silenced!
Gaden Trisur Rinpoche Lungrik Namgyal will never be silenced!
Sakya Throne Holder Kunkhyen Ngawang Kunga Lodro will never be silenced!
Gonsar Rinpoche will never be silenced!
Shar Gaden Ken Rinpoche Lobsang Pende will never be silenced!
Serpom Monastery will never be silenced!
Trode Khangsar Chapel will never be silenced.
Denma Gonsar Monastery will never be silenced!
Tashi Lumpo Monastery will never be silenced!
Jampa Ling Monastery will never be silenced!
Chatreng Monastery will never be silenced!
Shar Gaden will never be silenced!
Sera Boompra Kuten (oracle) will never be silenced!
Gameng Dulzin Kuten (oracle) will never be silenced!
Tsongkapa's lineage will never be silenced!

Dorje Shugden will never be silenced!!
Four Faced Mahakala will never be silenced!
Kache Marpo will never be silenced!


a friend

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2010, 08:12:17 PM »

Sorry, TK, your extraordinary statement could not stay hidden in another thread.

This is TK's pledge, and I assume all of us can join in such a declaration.



Zach

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2010, 08:27:49 PM »
The Truth always has a habit of escaping the Bondage of Lies.  :)

LosangKhyentse

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2010, 10:08:42 PM »

Sorry, TK, your extraordinary statement could not stay hidden in another thread.

This is TK's pledge, and I assume all of us can join in such a declaration.





THANK YOU AND ALSO THE PEOPLE OF THIS FORUM WILL NEVER BE SILENCED!!!!

TK


WisdomBeing

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2010, 04:29:20 PM »

Sorry, TK, your extraordinary statement could not stay hidden in another thread.

This is TK's pledge, and I assume all of us can join in such a declaration.




Thank you TK for posting this and A Friend for starting this thread!

Dorje Shugden and his illustrious lineage will never be silenced as long as his practitioners are loyal, keep their Guru samaya and keep their vows. The biggest threat to Dorje Shugden is disharmony and lack of commitment and integrity.

Dorje Shugden will prevail as long as each of us STEPS UP and represents his enlightened presence WELL.



Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

honeydakini

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2010, 09:16:15 PM »
And certainly he hasn't been silenced. He may have been, literally (but only), silenced by words, but most definitely never in actions, deeds and the legacy of his lineage and practice, as can be seen EVERYWHERE in the world today. Looks like the more they try to silence him, the "louder" he shouts in other ways.

It is also by his most committed and devoted practitioners, who are standing up for him and speaking up, as I believe we are all trying to do in this forum, that will keep his voice strong in the world. Most importantly, and ultimately, it is by OUR own action, practice, samaya and commitment that will ring to the furthest corners of the world. Truth prevails, and speaks most clearly and resoundingly.

The many Lamas on that list are sheer testament to this. They are "silent" in the politics, they don't retaliate negatively, ever, or even speak badly against anyone (including the Dalai Lama). It is by their very "silence", patience, tolerance, strength and tenacity in the face of all their obstacles that is making them grow bigger and bigger in the world.

Sometimes "silence", perhaps, speaks much louder than all the talk. There's that old adage, after all, that actions speak far louder than words.

I am grateful, deeply appreciative and humbled by all that these Lamas are continuing to do for the growth of Dharma and our protector, even when they can literally almost say nothing.

crazycloud

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2010, 02:29:10 AM »
The many Lamas on that list are sheer testament to this. They are "silent" in the politics, they don't retaliate negatively, ever, or even speak badly against anyone (including the Dalai Lama). It is by their very "silence", patience, tolerance, strength and tenacity in the face of all their obstacles that is making them grow bigger and bigger in the world.

Sometimes "silence", perhaps, speaks much louder than all the talk. There's that old adage, after all, that actions speak far louder than words.

For those who are using words, what speaks loudest of all is when one's words and actions are in synch.

When someone is trying to destroy a Buddhist tradition using lies, politics and coersion, it is our job to speak up.

I think you are mistakenly conflating "speaking badly against someone," or "retaliating," surely non-virtuous, and speaking up for others, even when it may be awkward for someone who is up to no good. IS speaking up part of politics, as you have implied?

Your attempt to unite "silence" with virtue is here noted.

If the Lamas on that list are quiet, it is either because they are deceased, children, or protecting others who would be harmed if they spoke out.



DharmaDefender

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2010, 04:03:47 AM »
When someone is trying to destroy a Buddhist tradition using lies, politics and coersion, it is our job to speak up.

To each their own. Just like how you don't wish for decisions to be made on your behalf, neither do I.

Your attempt to unite "silence" with virtue is here noted.

If the Lamas on that list are quiet, it is either because they are deceased, children, or protecting others who would be harmed if they spoke out.

Is that not a virtue in itself, wanting to protect people and people's minds?

The many Lamas on that list are sheer testament to this. They are "silent" in the politics, they don't retaliate negatively, ever, or even speak badly against anyone (including the Dalai Lama). It is by their very "silence", patience, tolerance, strength and tenacity in the face of all their obstacles that is making them grow bigger and bigger in the world.

Sometimes "silence", perhaps, speaks much louder than all the talk. There's that old adage, after all, that actions speak far louder than words.

crazycloud has a point in saying that the most powerful is when one's words and actions are in sync (it's called integrity, I believe) - none of us respect the Dalai Lama's practitioners who spit at people immediately after a teaching on compassion. Actions and words there don't match.

But HD, I'm very much in agreement with you. When we look at people whose words we respect and admire, it's not usually the people who take to the streets. Do you respect the youths who took to Parisian streets, protesting against unemployment but destroying shops and business in the process? Or the protestors in Bangkok who scared so many people? After a while, people just got sick of it and wanted to carry on with their everyday lives, undisturbed. I'm not likening DS protestors to the above examples, just showing how we don't usually like people who take to the streets in such a manner.

There are more and different effective ways of expressing our frustration. We usually respect the people who wait for the right time, to say the right thing...here's another old adage for you - fools speak because they have to say something. Wise men speak because they have something to say.

I think when the lamas chose to discard their veil of silence, their message will be even more powerful. "DS was precious enough for me to chose to remain silent...for now"

Mohani

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2010, 05:30:00 AM »
Hi Dharma Defender,
Do you respect the actions of the people who took to the streets to protect our Brothers in india?

DSFriend

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2010, 06:06:19 AM »


Reading through this pledge brought tears to my eyes! YES! These beings will NEVER BE SILENCED and people in this forum WILL NEVER BE SILENCED.

...deep gratitude to my kind guru, yidam and protector who is one in nature...
DSFriend
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 06:08:17 AM by DSFriend »

honeydakini

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2010, 06:31:55 AM »

I think you are mistakenly conflating "speaking badly against someone," or "retaliating," surely non-virtuous, and speaking up for others, even when it may be awkward for someone who is up to no good. IS speaking up part of politics, as you have implied?


Crazycloud, I like what you’ve pointed out and it’s a good point. I think there is a distinction to be made between being political – which I think can tend to lean towards a kind of petty infighting, personal agendas and power trips - and speaking up for the rights and welfare of others, as you have rightly pointed out. I believe that the former contains within it quite a degree of selfishness and a lot of ego; the latter is a method that arises out of focusing outwards and acting on behalf of those who are suffering.

I think even what we are doing right here in this forum is about speaking out in solidarity with those who are suffering far more than us. It is different from hurling abuse at each other, putting each other down or trying to suppress others for our own benefit (such as what Dharma Defender has noted re: Dalai Lama students spitting at others, “speaking up” in the wrong way of just wanting to be right (selfishness, ego)

In short, yes I am agreeing with the point you have made. Sometimes, speaking up can indeed be awkward or more difficult for someone than just keeping mum and “letting things go” – overcoming that challenge then, would be in itself someone’s Dharma practice to confront their own fears and still act/speak for the sake of others.

At the end of the day, like everything else, motivation counts for everything. Do we “keep quiet” because it’s easier, safer, and saves our own face/reputation? Do we speak out just because we want to be right right right and want to prove a point? Like you also noted, it is best when our actions and speech sync and come from a sincerely good intention for others, even in some cases, if it means to not do anything at all for the moment, or to stand up and fight to death.

WisdomBeing

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2010, 07:53:43 AM »
Coming from a country where going on strike is a national past time, I am quite used to public protests, so they don't bother me as much as they would bother someone in an Asian country, where I think it is less acceptable (or just legally not allowed) to have public protests.

i do believe that the public protests by the DS practitioners achieved their purpose - which was to highlight the insanity of the Dalai Lama's ban. The protestors did what they did out of their heartfelt desire to speak on behalf of our Protector and i think that's pretty cool. And since I still believe in the DL/DS in league hypothesis, the protests served to highlight Dorje Shugden to the world. Without the protests, Dalai Lama's ban would not have achieved its goal.

As such, Serpom and Shar Gaden also had to split. The Lamas who joined these new institutions such as Trijang Rinpoche and the previous Gaden Tripa spoke a thousand words by their action and without any rhetoric.

Re the Lamas who may still be DS practitioners and not speaking up - I do not believe that they are doing so because they are 'silenced'. i agree with HD, that the lamas who are silent are doing so because they are "protecting others who would be harmed if they spoke out."

I would never dare to judge a Lama's actions in any case, since i'm a mere amoeba compared to their learning and practice, but whatever I think of them, I try to make sure it's positive or at the very least, not negative. When the time comes, I can't wait to see how many Lamas come out of DS' closet!

Since the Lamas cannot talk now, let's talk on their behalf - with respect, humility, integrity and the correct motivation.



Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

harrynephew

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2010, 09:01:12 AM »
Re the Lamas who may still be DS practitioners and not speaking up - I do not believe that they are doing so because they are 'silenced'. i agree with HD, that the lamas who are silent are doing so because they are "protecting others who would be harmed if they spoke out."

I would never dare to judge a Lama's actions in any case, since i'm a mere amoeba compared to their learning and practice, but whatever I think of them, I try to make sure it's positive or at the very least, not negative. When the time comes, I can't wait to see how many Lamas come out of DS' closet!

Since the Lamas cannot talk now, let's talk on their behalf - with respect, humility, integrity and the correct motivation.

I do acknowledge the hard work of all these Lamas. They have spent their entire life preserving the Dharma and building faith in the minds of many people and when met with such contraversy, it is so hard for them to come out to fend for a deity and practice which they hold so dear.

Facing such difficulties, they worry for their students if they were to speak up how much more nurturing for the unstable minds of people during these degenerate times and when the time is here for the teacher to pass on, it will be harder for the student to understand amidst all these political issues.

Rest assured, I do have faith that all these Lamas have their say and do know what is right to be done for the benefit of the people whom they have touched.

May Dorje Shugden's sun shine during the setting of the Great Sage's.

H1N1
Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

DharmaDefender

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2010, 06:04:36 PM »
Hi Dharma Defender,
Do you respect the actions of the people who took to the streets to protect our Brothers in india?

I do, but my respect for them diminishes slightly if I ever hear of violence or their harming others. But I hold the same view for everyone, regardless of what cause they are standing up for.

According to Dharma Defender's logic Shar Gaden and Sera Pom themselves are mistakes.  Why?  They decided not to remain silent by not going along with the oath.  So perhaps Ganden Shartse was right, since they are still "silent"?

Eh, no? I never said those words. Note I did say "There are more and different effective ways of expressing our frustration", with particular attention to the word 'different'. Gaden Shartse are doing what they need to do, as are Shar Gaden and Serpom. In remaining silent over the TGIE's policies, Gaden Shartse are still able to provide a livelihood and education for thousands of monks. Is that so wrong? Monasteries already have enough trouble attracting regular sponsorship - how much more difficult would it be for Gaden if they were to take a public stance against the Dalai Lama? How many sponsors would desert them for that?

Coming from a country where going on strike is a national past time, I am quite used to public protests, so they don't bother me as much as they would bother someone in an Asian country, where I think it is less acceptable (or just legally not allowed) to have public protests.

The next time Royal Mail / TfL have a strike...!

thor

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Re: A pledge from a Forum member
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2010, 11:17:25 AM »
According to Dharma Defender's logic Shar Gaden and Sera Pom themselves are mistakes.  Why?  They decided not to remain silent by not going along with the oath.  So perhaps Ganden Shartse was right, since they are still "silent"?

Silence is a method, the motivation and the result also plays a part. Taking all three into account before acting and evaluating another's action will be the most balanced view.

Shar Gaden and Serpom are most definitely NOT mistakes. They preserve the lineage, they give hope to the downtrodden, they demonstrate an aspect of Guru Devotion, they will be the strongholds of Dorje Shugden's practice in the future.

On another note, imagine the day that Kyabje Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen unveils his identity to the public... As Panchen Sonam Drakpa, he was the Abbot of Ganden, Sera and Drepung. Would he not be the logical choice to be the abbot of Shar Gaden and Serpom? My spine tingles at the thought