Author Topic: Pastor Patel now states "WE SHOULD NOT PRACTICE SHANGMO DORJE PUTRI"  (Read 861 times)

Harold Musetescu

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It's seems that Pastor Niral Patel is now stating that we should not practice Shangmo Dorje Putri.

He has stated in the past that she is part of Dorje Shugden's entourage and that her image(thangka) is on display at Tsem Tulku's Ladrang building.

He claims that she is too dangerous to practice since she is and "unenlightened" being.

That is a strange claim for him to make since both Namkar Barzin and Methar are also both "unenlightened" beings.

With Pastor Patel's logic since Shangmo is "unenlightened" and should not be practiced then Namkar Barzin and Methar should not be practiced.

Should we now believe that Dorje Shugden would place such a dangerous "Bamo" into his entourage?

That Kache Marpo would place Shangmo into his personal entourage along side of Methar if she was so dangerous?

Would the 1st Domo Geshe Rinpoche have knowingly placed a "Dangerous unenlightened" being into the entourage of Kache Marpo?

Would the 1st Domo Geshe Rinpoche build a "Chapel" for her at Tharpa Choling Monastery if she was so dangerous to his followers?

The answer is NO!!

I think that Pastor Patel is stuck with the false idea that Shangmo is a SAKYA BAMO and not a DORJE SHUGEN Dharmapala.

Shangmo "escaped" the Sakya and presented herself to Domo Geshe Rinpoche who accepted her as HIS dharmapala.

Not as a "SAKYA BAMO WITCH" but worthy of being in Kache Marpo's entourage.

Of being worthy of being in Dorje Shugden's retinue.

Of being worthy to we the followers of Dorje Shugden, Kache Marpo, Namkar Barzin and Methar.

Do any of us fear to practice Dorje Shugden, Kache Marpo, Namkar Barzin or Methar?

NOOOO!!

If we do not fear them then we should not fear Shangmo Dorje Putri.

The following link follows this discussion on "Ask a Pastor".

https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/ask-the-pastors

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Question from Margo

Thank you Pastor Patel for answering my two questions about Shangmo Dorje Putri.

The thangka you display of Shangmo is from the Sakya lineage.

Did Domo Geshe Rinpoche create one for his Gelugpa monastery?

They must have one at her chapel at his Tharpa Choling Monastery in India.

here is a link I found on researching Shangmo.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1589.msg21216#msg21216

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5. Shrine for Shangmo Dorje Bhuti: It is said that Shangmo was once a demon who disguised as a nomad woman. She was tamed by Sakya Gongma Rinpoche.
Around 1902, Shangmo escaped from the Sakya Monastery and followed Domo Geshe Rinpoche to Dungkar Gonpa, as Rinpoche also was the native of the same place, “Shang”. There at Dungkar Gonpa, she was bound under solemn oath to protect the monastery. In Tharpa Cholling, the storekeeper ordered Shangmo to protect the ration store room of Tharpa Choling monastery. Shangmo stayed in the store room up to the renovation of monastery. Now her abode has been shifted to Mani Lhagang with her special shrine.
Unquote

As a woman I would love to engage Shangmo Dorje Putri in my Dharmapala practice along side my Dorje Shugden practice.

Could you help me with that?

I'm sure there are many other woman who follow Dorje Shugden who would dearly love to practice this wonderful female companion of Dorje Shugden.

Thank you
Unquote

This is Pastor Niral Patel's reply.

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Dear Margo,

Unfortunately, we are not aware what sort of image was used for Shangmo Dorje Putri’s installation at Tharpa Choling Monastery. It could have been in the form of a thangka, or statue, or even another medium. All we know for a fact is that she has her own special altar there. You can read the information we have on Shangmo Dorje Putri here: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/shangmo-dorje-putri-the-bamo-of-sakya.html

As for the practice of Shangmo Dorje Putri, since she is not an enlightened being, it is advised not to engage in her practice unless authorised to do so by a high lama who can explain the practice to you. This is because Shangmo Dorje Putri is an unenlightened Bamo spirit, who can cause great harm to those who are not qualified enough or authorised to interact with her. It is better to rely on enlightened Dharma Protectors if we have not been assigned a Dharma Protector by our qualified Guru..........
Unquote

This is Margo's follow up question to Pastor Niral Patel which awaits his reply.

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Question asked by Margo

Hello Pastor Patel.

The Sakya may consider Shangmo Dorje Putri a "Bamo" but I don't believe Domo Geshe Rinpoche did when he made her a Dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage.

If she was so dangerous why would Domo Geshe Rinpoche have her protect a kitchen store room?
Why would he create a chapel for such a so called dangerous "Bamo"?
Quote
Around 1902, Shangmo escaped from the Sakya Monastery and followed Domo Geshe Rinpoche to Dungkar Gonpa, as Rinpoche also was the native of the same place, “Shang”. There at Dungkar Gonpa, she was bound under solemn oath to protect the monastery. In Tharpa Cholling, the storekeeper ordered Shangmo to protect the ration store room of Tharpa Choling monastery. Shangmo stayed in the store room up to the renovation of monastery.
Unquote

Shangmo Dorje Putri maybe not be enlightened but so are Namkar Barzin and Methar.

Are you saying that they also should not be practiced?

Why did she "Escape" the Sakya and seek out the help and protection of Domo Geshe Rinpoche?

The Sakya fear her yet the followers of Domo Geshe Rinpoche revere her as a Dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage.

Domo Geshe Rinpoche had no fear of introducing her to Kache Marpo.

Kache Marpo supervisors her and Methar and we should have absolute confidence in Kache Marpo.

Are you saying that Dorje Shudgen would have such a dangerous "Bamo" in his entourage?

A "Bamo" that would be such a threat that we should not practice her as a Dharmapala??

Maybe you should contact Domo Geshe Rinpoche to find out if he is in agreement with you about Shangmo Dorje Putri.

Shangmo is no longer a Sakya "Bamo" she "Escaped" and was accepted by the great Dorje Shugden practitioner H.E. Domo Geshe Rinpoche.

Unquote

I do not believe that Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Kache Marpo and Dorje Shugden erred in this matter.

I pray that Pastor Patel will change his view about not allowing the practice of Shangmo Dorje Putri.


Harold Musetescu

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Re: Pastor Patel now states "WE SHOULD NOT PRACTICE SHANGMO DORJE PUTRI"
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2020, 01:30:21 AM »
Some readers may not know that the 1st Domo Geshe Rinpoche made Namkar Barzin a Dharmapla in Dorje Shugden's retinue sometime in the 1920's.

The 1st Domo Geshe Rinpoche made Shangmo Dorje Putri a Dharmapala in Kache Marpo's retinue around 1906.

Namkar Barzin is an "Unenlightened" Dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage who can be practiced.

Shangmo Dorje Putri is an "Unenlightened" Dharmapala who is also in Dorje Shugden's entourage but Pastor Patel declares CAN NOT be practiced by anyone.

This is what Tsem Tulku had to say about Namkar Barzin. ( https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/invocation-to-namkar-barzin.html )

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.....Namkar Barzin showed a lot of effort in helping Dorje Shugden, helping Dharma practitioners, protecting the monasteries and gave a lot of signs. IF A LAMA OF DOMO GESHE RINPOCHE'S CALIBER RECOGNIZES THIS NEW PROTECTOR NAMKAR BARZIN, IT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.   Domo Geshe was very pleased with Namkar Barzin, and made many images of him and spread his practice to many. Domo Geshe also enthroned Namkar Barzin as one of the protectors of his many monasteries. Although he is part of Dorje Shugden’s entourage, Namkar Barzin is a Dharma Protector in his own right and there are rituals, rites and mantras written to Namkar Barzin that specifically invoke his presence, power and blessings. In the Phari area, Namkar Barzin is very famous and very well known. Up till today, the people of Phari practice this Dharma Protector very strongly. I found this to be very interesting and captivating and thought I should share the story here....
Unquote

Let me repeat what Tsem Tulku Rinpoche stated.

"IF A LAMA OF DOMO GESHE RINPOCHE'S CALIBER RECOGNIZES THIS NEW PROTECTOR NAMKAR BARZIN, IT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME."

So, could we also say "IF A LAMA OF DOMO GESHE RINPOCHE'S CALIBER RECOGNIZES THIS NEW PROTECTOR SHANGMO DORJE PUTRI, IT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME."

I say YES but Pastor Niral Patel says NO.

Tsem Tulku Rinpoche also stated, "Domo Geshe also enthroned Namkar Barzin as one of the protectors of his many monasteries."

Domo Geshe also enthroned Shangmo Dorje Putri as one of the protectors of Tharpa Choling Monastery and built her a "SPECIAL SHRINE" in her honour.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1589.msg21216#msg21216

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.....There at Dungkar Gonpa, she was bound under solemn oath to protect the monastery. In Tharpa Choling, the storekeeper ordered Shangmo to protect the ration store room of Tharpa Choling monastery. Shangmo stayed in the store room up to the renovation of monastery. Now her abode has been shifted to Mani Lhagang with her SPECIAL SHRINE.
Unquote

So Pastor Patel why can we practice one of Domo Geshe's unenlightened Dharmapala's, Namkar Barzin but we are not allowed to practice his other unenlightened Dharmapala Shangmo Dorje Putri?

IF A LAMA OF DOMO GESHE RINPOCHE'S CALIBER RECOGNIZES THIS NEW PROTECTOR SHANGMO DORJE PUTRI, IS IT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.


Harold Musetescu

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Re: Pastor Patel now states "WE SHOULD NOT PRACTICE SHANGMO DORJE PUTRI"
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2020, 09:55:05 PM »
Pastor Patel has answered the newest question from Margo.

Here is Margo's followup question.

Quote

Question asked by Margo

Hello Pastor Patel.

The Sakya may consider Shangmo Dorje Putri a "Bamo" but I don't believe Domo Geshe Rinpoche did when he made her a Dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage.

If she was so dangerous why would Domo Geshe Rinpoche have her protect a kitchen store room?
Why would he create a chapel for such a so called dangerous "Bamo"?
Quote
Around 1902, Shangmo escaped from the Sakya Monastery and followed Domo Geshe Rinpoche to Dungkar Gonpa, as Rinpoche also was the native of the same place, “Shang”. There at Dungkar Gonpa, she was bound under solemn oath to protect the monastery. In Tharpa Cholling, the storekeeper ordered Shangmo to protect the ration store room of Tharpa Choling monastery. Shangmo stayed in the store room up to the renovation of monastery.
Unquote

Shangmo Dorje Putri maybe not be enlightened but so are Namkar Barzin and Methar.

Are you saying that they also should not be practiced?

Why did she "Escape" the Sakya and seek out the help and protection of Domo Geshe Rinpoche?

The Sakya fear her yet the followers of Domo Geshe Rinpoche revere her as a Dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage.

Domo Geshe Rinpoche had no fear of introducing her to Kache Marpo.

Kache Marpo supervisors her and Methar and we should have absolute confidence in Kache Marpo.

Are you saying that Dorje Shudgen would have such a dangerous "Bamo" in his entourage?

A "Bamo" that would be such a threat that we should not practice her as a Dharmapala??

Maybe you should contact Domo Geshe Rinpoche to find out if he is in agreement with you about Shangmo Dorje Putri.

Shangmo is no longer a Sakya "Bamo" she "Escaped" and was accepted by the great Dorje Shugden practitioner H.E. Domo Geshe Rinpoche.

Unquote

Pastor Patel answer was to  REFUSED TO ANSWER "Margo's" question about Shangmo Dorje Putri.

He actually went so far as to REMOVE her question from his blog site.

Her question was originally after "Jason's" question.

Here is the link to his page.  https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/ask-the-pastors.

You will see that her question was removed.




Harold Musetescu

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Re: Pastor Patel now states "WE SHOULD NOT PRACTICE SHANGMO DORJE PUTRI"
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2020, 03:51:42 AM »
I know the exact person who can solve these questions about Shangmo Dorje Putri.

It's really not a person put an "Oracle" (Kuten) named the Panglung Oracle.

The Panglung Oracle lives at the Kechara Forest Retreat along side of Pastor Niral Patel and Tsem Tulku's Ladrang.

This is what Tsem Tulku wrote about Shangmo Dorje Putri and her connections to certain Oracles.

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She is also known to take trance in trained oracles who can take trance of Dorje Shugden, Setrap and Kache Marpo.

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Here is the link to that article by Tsem Tulku and Shangmo Dorje Putri.

https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/shangmo-dorje-putri-the-bamo-of-sakya.html

So either Pastor Patel or another member of Tsem Tulku's Ladrang can just walk over to the Panglung Oracle's house and ask him to go into trance.

The Panglung Oracle is known to take trance of Dorje Shugden, Setrap, and Kache Marpo and his peaceful emanation Yumar Gyalchen.

He maybe also be able to take trance of Shangmo as per Tsem Tulku's statement about her taking trances of certain Oracles.

Even if the Panglung Oracle can not take trance of Shangmo Dorje Putri he can take trance of "Kache Marpo".

The Oracle can take trance of "Kache Marpo" and through him answer if Shangmo is officially part of Dorje Shugden's entourage and equal to Methar and Namkar Barzin.

He can also be asked if any follower of Dorje Shugden can have Shangmo as their Dharmpala and have nothing to fear from her.

You see WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR from "Namkar Barzin" who was made a Dharmapala by the 1st Domo Geshe Rinpoche.

We SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR since it was the  1st Domo Geshe Rinpoche who made Shangmo Dorje Putri a Dhamapala in Kache Marpo's entourage.

I really don't think that Domo Geshe Rinpoche would have placed a terrible witch that we should fear into Kache Marpo's entourage.

The Sakya may say that she is a terrible witch that should be feared but I really don't think that Domo Geshe Rinpoche feels the say way about Shangmo Dorje Putri.

Do YOU???

So what do you say Pastor Patel why not take a walk over to the Panglung Oracle's house and prove me WRONG!!

Harold Musetescu

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Re: Pastor Patel now states "WE SHOULD NOT PRACTICE SHANGMO DORJE PUTRI"
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2020, 04:43:49 AM »
Tsem Tulku wanted us to embrace Shangmo Dorje Putri as a Dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage.

If not why would he in his article about her post a link to her "Thangka" on his website?

Here is the link to Tsem Tulku's photograph of Shangmo's "Thangka".

https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Shangmo-10.jpg

Why would he publicly post the Sakya "Kangsol" to her if she was so DANGEROUS?

Why would Tsem Tulku publicly post the "Invocation to Shangmo Dorje Putri if she was so DANGEROUS?

Here is the link to Tsem Tulku's article showing all of the above statements.

https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/shangmo-dorje-putri-the-bamo-of-sakya.html

If Shangmo Dorje Putri is SO DANGEROUS why is her image (Thangka) found in Tsem Tulku's Ladrang house.

A quote from Pastor Patel to Margo.

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....An image of Shangmo Dorje Putri is kept at Tsem Ladrang (Rinpoche’s personal household)....

Unquote

In the same reply to Marpo he states to her.

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Unfortunately, we are not aware what sort of image was used for Shangmo Dorje Putri’s installation at Tharpa Choling Monastery. It could have been in the form of a thangka, or statue, or even another medium. All WE KNOW FOR A FACT IS THAT SHE HAS HER OWN SPECIAL ALTER THERE.

Unquote

Pastor Patel stated that Shangmo Dorje Putri HAS "her own special alter there" (Tharpa Choling Monastery).

We also know for a fact that "her own special alter there" was commissioned by the 1st Domo Geshe Rinpoche to HONOUR her presence as a Dharmapala in Kache Marpo's entourage at HIS very own "Tharpa Choling Monastery" in India.

It seems to me that the late Tsem Tulku Rinpoche wanted us to all know about the greatness of Shangmo Dorje Putri.

I don't think that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche did not want us to embrace Shangmo Dorje Putri.

I think he wanted us to know all about the first female dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage.

Thank you Tsem Tulku Rinpoche for introducing Shangmo Dorje Putri to we the followers of Dorje Shugden.

Praise to you Shangmo Dorje Putri the FIRST dharmapala in Dorje Shugden's entourage.