Author Topic: Why do only Tibetans inside Tibet self-immolate? Not Tibetans outside of Tibet?  (Read 57287 times)

thaimonk

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I am not asking for anyone to harm themselves. But think carefully. How come there is no 'successful' self-immolations outside of Tibet? How come it is only the Tibetans inside Tibet that self immolate? Even if there was one self-immolation or even an attempt from Tibetans outside of Tibet, how come not two or three or more? How come the Tibetans in Bhutan, India, Nepal, Canada, Europe, Japan, Hong Kong, China mainland, Taiwan, Australia, etc do not self immolate? Is it because they know Tibetan govt in exile (CTA) is not worth it? Why are the Tibetans outside and inside Tibet different?

Think about that?

Is it because the CTA can brainwash Tibetans inside Tibet easier than outside Tibetans because outside Tibetans are more exposed and have a 'good' life? Do they promise the less exposed Tibetans inside Tibet that they go to heaven if they self-immolate for the Dalai Lama as he is a god (Chenresig) and or for their country? Do Tibetans inside Tibet buy that 'promise' easier? Are Tibetans inside Tibet more gullible to the rhetoric of the Tibetan govt in exile?

Tibetans outside, their life is too good so they don't care nor want to sacrifice their lives for Dalai Lama, Tibet and Tibetans in Tibet?

Again I am not asking for nor wanting any Tibetans anywhere to self immolate, but you think about this. It somehow leads to the corruption of Tibetan govt in exile and their sinister unspoken wish for these self-immolations to happen inside Tibet and do not put their foot down on it. It's their way to secure sympathy to keep getting free money from western governments?

In Buddhism, killing oneself is a grave sin which the person takes rebirth in a lowly place after death.

Tibetan govt. in exile can order and demand all Tibetans to stop doing this strongly but they don't. They can say Dalai Lama condemns this and they will go to hell for killing even themselves if they do this, but they don't. They can say it makes the Dalai Lama very angry if they do this. The Dalai Lama can condemn this in a much stronger method. He can come out with videos, books and more to stop this. He should order his people to stop this as a Buddhist leader to save lives. So why don't they stop the self-immolations with stronger methods/speech in order the Tibetans inside Tibet to stop killing themselves? They believe Dalai Lama is a god and they will listen if the Dalai Lama condemns self-immolations strongly and consistently. Don't leaders have an obligation to preserve the lives of their people? Why the silence?

The freedom of Tibet from China should be equally important to the Tibetans inside Tibet and outside Tibet. All Tibetans must make this a priority. If this is the case, why is only the Tibetans inside Tibet self-immolating? If the CTA 'allows' Tibetans outside Tibet to self-immolate, Tibetan govt. in exile (Tibetan leaders) will have to self-immolate themselves wouldn't they? They are too corrupt to sacrifice anything in their comfortable lives let alone their actual lives. Again, no one should self-immolate, but this analogy is to point out the deep corruption and deceptive policies of the Tibetan govt. in exile in North India. How the Tibetan leaders in exile sacrifice their people for their own comfort.



It is not good at all there is another person self-immolating and the Tibetan leaders in exile do not heavily condemn this.






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Youth immolates self in Ngaba

[Phayul.com-Sunday, December 09, 2018 10:46]

Dharamshala, Dec. 9: A Tibetan youth named Dugkho has set himself ablaze in Ngaba's Soruma township on Saturday. It is not known if he is still alive.

This marks the 164th self-immolation by a Tibetan since 1998 in Tibet and exile.

Ngaba, home of the Kirti monastery with a record number of protests and self immolation just recently saw a self-immolation by a 23-year-old Dhorbo who succumbed to burns while calling for the long life and the return of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

(Photos: Phayul article and self-immolated youth) http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41013&article=Youth+immolates+self+in+Ngaba
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 01:04:31 PM by Admin »

lotus1

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thaimonk brought up a very interesting point - Why only Tibetans inside Tibet self-immolate?

I think CTA purposely stir up the emotion for Tibetans in Tibet and in directly encourage them to self-immolate. If not, why would any leadership not strongly discourage their people to self-immolate? 164 lost their lives and their leaders, who are practicing Buddhism (a religion that discourage killing of own lives and others' lives) just kept quiet.  :'( :'( :'( The CTA just want to create more news so that their Western donors will believe and support them on their Free Tibet drive and give them more donation. They are just using their people.

Another point that I can think of is the CTA and the Tibetans-in-exile do not really want Dalai Lama to go back Tibet. If they support Dalai Lama's wishes to go back China, they will not keep provoking China. They will ask for dialog with China and come out with a plan so that China will not treat Dalai Lama as enemy and will let Dalai Lama to go back China.

What I see is just CTA is using their people and Dalai Lama for them to get more donation.


 

Alex

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It is amazing on how one Tibetan in Tibet kills themselves one after another while there are no such cases with the Tibetans in foreign countries. This tells us alot about how the CTA works and the situation of Tibetans in other countries. It is obvious that CTA can influence the Tibetans in Tibet easily because of their unwavering faith in His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Another factor is the Tibetans in Tibet are generally less educated and underexposed. It is very easy to influence their thinking and can even encourage them to give up their life for something that is totally unnecessary. Tibetans who are in a foreign country are exposed and have a taste of life outside of Tibet. They are also the ones who are fighting for a better future and have less chance of giving up their lives easier.

CTA is very cruel for exploiting their people and show no concern for their wellbeing at all. All they care about is the money and attention that they can get from the western countries. They did not do anything to discourage the trend of self-immolating while other high lamas actually advised for Tibetans to stop killing themselves because that is not a suitable solution for whatever that they are trying to solve. I think CTA is the only government in the world that actually rejoicing when their own people take their own life.

Drolma

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The Tibetans in Tibet are less exposed to the information outside, they can be easily manipulated. For the Tibetans outside Tibet, they are more exposed and they know self-immolation will not help them to get their country back that is why they are not burning themselves to death.

The fact that the CTA glorifies self-immolation is an indirect way of encouraging more to burn themselves. The CTA needs more people to self-immolate so they can use these cases to condemn China and ask for donations from the sponsors. The CTA is making money at the expense of someone's life.

It is quite disturbing that the CTA did not try to stop people from self-immolating but they actually encourage that. It seems like their lives are more precious than those in Tibet. How come? They knew it very well that self-immolation will not help them to get their country back, why are they not stopping the Tibetan from doing that? The CTA is so selfish, they only care about the money.

thaimonk

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My Tibetan acquaintance (Lobseng) in India sent me this message about the newest self-immolation. It makes him very upset and sad. He said he has lost hope in the Tibetan govt in exile (CTA):

 
1. The Tibetans in Tibet are really not exposed. Many of them still live a simple life, without internet and live a basic life. Even if they have internet, China government block many of the websites, the Tibetans in Tibet will not have the access to the most of the websites. CTA has been using HHDL for every of their so-called cause, and for HHDL, the Tibetans would do everything for HHDL, including self-sacrifice. I believe CTA somehow encourage people in Tibet to self-immolate, by telling them this will help HHDL to return Tibet and gain freedom.

2. Tibetans in Tibet self-immolate will only bring problems to China government and CTA's hands are 'clean' because CTA can say the people kill themselves because of China oppression. If many Tibetans in India self-immolate, then CTA will be under the spotlight, so they are very 'smart' to let the Tibetans in Tibet to kill themselves. From this, the world sees more evil in China and they can get more free money from the West.

3. Tibetans outside, they see no hope in CTA and started to have new direction already,so whether rangzen or umaylam, it doesn't make a difference. They don't want to be controlled by CTA, knowing how nasty and useless they are, they also don't want to be controlled by the Chinese. So they just leave it and not involved.

It is very cruel that CTA allows and encourage Tibetans in Tibet to self-immolate to get China into trouble and then they get support and money from the West out of this. Because, like what many Tibetans in India said, CTA can easily stop the people from self-immolate but they don't. What other reason can it be?

Sent by Lobseng in Majnukatilla Tibetan camp- Old Delhi


(photos-Majnukatilla Tibetan camp in Old Delhi)

Lawrence L

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Wow, what thaimonk shared from Lobseng is very explosive!

I also have no doubt that the Central Tibetan Administration would actually tell the Tibetans in Tibet to kill themselves for a great cause, for example to die for the Dalai Lama. It's like a great honour to die, and that is exactly why self-immolation by the Tibetans in Tibet never stop!


And what more incredible is, Tibetans in the exile actually see through the true faces of the Central Tibetan Administration! They are evil, corrupted and always hungry for power and money. They never think for the Tibetans, both in exiled and in Tibet. If they truly work for the sake of the Tibetans, they would have getting results, no matter for the cause of Rangzen or Umaylam. But the Tibetans in exile and the rest of the world see clearly that the Central Tibetan Administration is getting nowhere, but more and more scandals are coming out from them. Shame shame.

The Tibetans in exile should stand by and voice out their disagreements to their government which is Central Tibetan Administration! Practice true democracy please!!!

thaimonk

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Tibetan government in exile or CTA and HH Dalai Lama can make videos, pamphlets, include in their official websites and books orders to stop self-immolations. Be consistent and firm about it. It's high time.


The Tibetan leaders should talk about how self-immolation is a big sin according to Buddhism. Killing oneself is negative. The Tibetan leaders make videos, books and all that against Dorje Shugden people for over 20 years now taking away their religious freedom and spent so much money on doing this. Surely self-immolations is much more important to spend money to make books, websites, pamphlets and videos for?

HH Dalai Lama speaks at all public talks for many years against Shugden. Banning Shugden's worship. That is amazing because that is not democratic. Instead of speaking about Shugden at every public talk, he can speak AGAINST self-immolations. If people self-immolate, HH Dalai Lama should block them to see him and attend his teachings. Then if he does this, they will stop. Because HH Dalai Lama blocks Dorje Shugden practitioners old and young to attend his meetings and speeches which is so unfair and total religious discrimination and this forces many to give up Shugden practice unwillingly. So Dalai Lama should apply this to self immolation families to discourage others to do it.


If Dalai Lama consistently tells his people to stop the self-immolations, they will listen. Especially if he threatens them by saying he will be angry and he will not allow them to his teachings. Why not do more to stop his  people from killing themselves? Save the Tibetan lives. Tibetan lives matter!


thaimonk

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Although this article by Stephen Prothero a CNN contributor is dated back to July 12th, 2012, his advice to the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan leaders is so appropriate and timeless. I will let you read without commenting much. PLEASE TAKE A READ because Mr. Stephen Prothero speaks with candid wisdom and compassion.


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My Take: Dalai Lama should condemn Tibetan self-immolations

Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "The American Bible: How Our Words Unite, Divide, and Define a Nation," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.

By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN

When the Vietnamese monk Thich Quang Duc immolated himself in Saigon in 1963 to protest the persecution of Buddhists by the South Vietnamese government of Ngo Dinh Diem, the world took notice. Malcolm Browne’s photograph of the monk becoming a martyr won the Pulitzer Prize, and Diem's Roman Catholic regime fell before the year’s end.

Today, Tibet is witnessing an epidemic of self-immolations. In fact, since March 16, 2011, more than 40 Tibetans have followed Thich Quang Duc’s lead, setting themselves on fire to protest the Chinese occupation of Tibet.

Westerners react with revulsion to sati, the Hindu practice of widow-burning outlawed by the British in 1829, and of course to Islamist suicide bombers. The New Atheists are right to protest all this killing in the name of God (or the Buddha) - the way believers both prompt violence and justify it in the name of some higher good.

So where are the protests against these Tibetan protesters?

When asked about the recent spate of self-immolations in Tibet, the Dalai Lama has offered the response of no response. In a July 9 interview, the spiritual leader of the Tibetan people said he wanted “to remain neutral,” telling The Hindu:

This is a very, very delicate political issue. Now, the reality is that if I say something positive, then the Chinese immediately blame me. If I say something negative, then the family members of those people feel very sad. They sacrificed their own life. It is not easy. So I do not want to create some kind of impression that this is wrong. So the best thing is to remain neutral.

CNN's Belief Blog: the faith angles behind the big stories

I know it is impolitic to criticize the Dalai Lama, a Nobel Peace Prize winner who is revered as a bodhisattva by many Buddhists.  But he deserves criticism in this case. Why not "create some kind of impression" that killing is wrong? Why not use his vast storehouse of moral and spiritual capital to denounce this ritual of human sacrifice?

If the Dalai Lama were to speak out unequivocally against these deaths, they would surely stop. So in a very real sense, their blood is on his hands. But the bad karma the Dalai Lama is accruing here extends far beyond Tibet and these particular protesters.

In an important article on suicide in the Boston Globe, Jennifer Michael Hecht has noted that suicides beget suicides. “One of the best predictors of suicide is knowing a suicide,” she writes. “That means that every suicide may be a delayed homicide.”

And so it goes with self-immolations. The suicide by fire of Tunisian street vendor Mohamed Bouazizi is widely seen as a key catalyst of the Tunisian revolution and the wider Arab Spring. Less well known is the fact that over a hundred Tunisians later set themselves on fire in copycat incidents.

I understand that there is a tradition of self-immolation in Buddhism dating back at least to the fourth century. But there is also a strong ethic of compassion. So where is the compassion here?

Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

The Dalai Lama isn’t just a Nobel Peace Prize winner. He is also a man of peace. It is time in this crisis that he started to act like one.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero.

Stephen Prothero - CNN Belief Blog contributor




(photos- Stephen Prothero and Tibetans at a protest in Taipei in 2011 display portraits of people who killed themselves by self-immolation.)

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/12/my-take-dalai-lama-should-condemn-tibetan-self-immolations/
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 08:47:07 PM by Admin »

DharmaSpace

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Compassion is not always directed just to others, it can also be directed towards oneself and one's families.

Tibetans in Tibet especially should have compassion for themselves and their loved ones, to be tricked into taking one's life just does not cut it. The independence movement of Tibet, is dead and gone, the Dalai Lama wants to return to Tibet, and many Tibetans formerly in Nepal and Indian, have made that move to return to Tibet.

CTA and the Dalai Lama can certainly voice out to stop the senseless immolations once and for all.

Lawrence L

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Tibetan government in exile or CTA and HH Dalai Lama can make videos, pamphlets, include in their official websites and books orders to stop self-immolations. Be consistent and firm about it. It's high time.


The Tibetan leaders should talk about how self-immolation is a big sin according to Buddhism. Killing oneself is negative. The Tibetan leaders make videos, books and all that against Dorje Shugden people for over 20 years now taking away their religious freedom and spent so much money on doing this. Surely self-immolations is much more important to spend money to make books, websites, pamphlets and videos for?

HH Dalai Lama speaks at all public talks for many years against Shugden. Banning Shugden's worship. That is amazing because that is not democratic. Instead of speaking about Shugden at every public talk, he can speak AGAINST self-immolations. If people self-immolate, HH Dalai Lama should block them to see him and attend his teachings. Then if he does this, they will stop. Because HH Dalai Lama blocks Dorje Shugden practitioners old and young to attend his meetings and speeches which is so unfair and total religious discrimination and this forces many to give up Shugden practice unwillingly. So Dalai Lama should apply this to self immolation families to discourage others to do it.


If Dalai Lama consistently tells his people to stop the self-immolations, they will listen. Especially if he threatens them by saying he will be angry and he will not allow them to his teachings. Why not do more to stop his  people from killing themselves? Save the Tibetan lives. Tibetan lives matter!



This is what the Central Tibetan Administration should do, but what they should do and what they actually do are two complete different things. Why they never really stop their own people to kill themselves? Because the people are just the tools for them to gain moral and monetary support from the world, from the West especially.

While Lobsang Sangay is talking about making Dalai Lama's dream to return Tibet comes true, he himself couldn't care less about returning to Tibet as he can go to United Sates and enjoy his good life there. We all know he has lots of money and has property there. He is such a hypocrite. The money pumped in for the Central Tibetan Administration all goes to where and who? I need not have to say much.

For almost 60 years, the so-called Tibet Cause is a total failure. How many more people Central Tibetan Administration wants to kill by keeping on to fail their cause? How many more people Central Tibetan Administration wants to kill by encouraging the Tibetans in Tibet to kill themselves for the Dalai Lama so that the Central Tibetan Administration looks pitiful and get easy money?

phyag na rlangs pa

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You know, the situation here is the same as the Dalai Lama's silence on sexual abuses by the elite lamas of Tibetan Buddhism who are staunch supporters of the Central Tibetan Administration.

Just as the Dalai Lama remained silent for nearly three decades and allowed these sexual predators to continue violating the bodies of women which has brought irreversible harm to the reputation of Tibetan Buddhism, the Dalai Lama and Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) saying and doing nothing to prevent future loss of innocent, precious Tibetan lives is as good as committing the murders themselves.[/color]

thaimonk has asked a very pertinent question, and I have often wondered why hasn't a Tibetan self-immolated in front of the UN building or the China Embassy in Washington D.C?

What thaimonk and Lawrence L have said above are logical and come from having knowledge of how Tibetans think and act.

I feel sad for the Tibetans in Tibet who have no way of knowing how biased the CTA are. If only there was a way for them to know, then perhaps they would see that the person they're dying for doesn't give two hoots about them.

This cartoon from the Tibetan Review capture exactly how the CTA manipulates Tibetans-in-exile and in Tibet.


Source: http://www.tibetanreview.net/weekly-cartoon-3/

vajratruth

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These are valid question, Thaimonk.

It is also suspicious that a lot of these self-immolations occur around the Kirti Monastery area. Kirti Monastery in Tibet has a sister monastery in Dharamsala and the 2 monasteries stay in regular contact with one another. I would not surprise anyone to learn that the Kirti conduit is how the CTA gets its messages and propaganda into Tibet.

I think the biggest difference between Tibetans in China and the Tibetan diaspora is those in the Tibet Autonomous Region still live under the illusion of who the Dalai Lama is and they still have this fantasised concept of the Dalai Lama's government. Those outside Tibet have personally experienced how hopeless and corrupt the CTA is. If the CTA is doing well and looking after the Tibetans in exile, why have so many left the Tibetan settlements under the CTA?

Of the Tibetan people in exile half have struck out on their own after decades o seeing the CTA fail. These Tibetans know that not only is the Tibetan struggle a romantic illusion under the present leadership, they also know that Tibet and its 6 million people would plunge into chaos of the present CTA takes over. Apart from those in the settlements in India, we see Tibetans in Nepal, Bhutan, Canada, America and various countries in Europe - Germany, Switzerland and France especially. They left the Indian settlements for a reason. In fact the number that remain in India is still dwindling. All these point to the fact that Tibetans outside China have in fact given up on their own leadership. Who is going to kill themselves when they know that CTA officials are only interested in lining their own pockets and jockeying for more power.


thaimonk

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Very true there is a Kirti branch monastery in Dharamsala, North India where the Dalai Lama is headquartered. The exile Tibetan govt. is in Dharamsala also. The main Kirti Monastery is in Tibet and it is in this area where most of the self-immolations are happening these days. Definitely Tibetan leaders in Dharamsala are communicating to Kirti Monastery in Dharamsala and passing messages to Kirti Monastery in Tibet. Kirti Monastery in Tibet are most likely allegedly encouraging the locals to self-immolate. The monasteries have a very strong influence on the villagers, herders and farmers. It is not out of reason to think this. Otherwise why the self-immolations are mostly in this area?

Most of the self-immolations are in the Kirti area in Tibet is highly suspicious. Are the abbots and monks there telling people to sacrifice themselves by self-immolation for a rebirth in heaven?

Kirti Monastery builds lavish monastery for their abbot Kirti Rinpoche- https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/honoring-10172016165853.html


(photo-Kirti Monastery in Tibet just built a very lavish residence for their abbot)

Alex

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Very true there is a Kirti branch monastery in Dharamsala, North India where the Dalai Lama is headquartered. The exile Tibetan govt. is in Dharamsala also. The main Kirti Monastery is in Tibet and it is in this area where most of the self-immolations are happening these days. Definitely Tibetan leaders in Dharamsala are communicating to Kirti Monastery in Dharamsala and passing messages to Kirti Monastery in Tibet. Kirti Monastery in Tibet are most likely allegedly encouraging the locals to self-immolate. The monasteries have a very strong influence on the villagers, herders and farmers. It is not out of reason to think this. Otherwise why the self-immolations are mostly in this area?

Most of the self-immolations are in the Kirti area in Tibet is highly suspicious. Are the abbots and monks there telling people to sacrifice themselves by self-immolation for a rebirth in heaven?

Kirti Monastery builds lavish monastery for their abbot Kirti Rinpoche- https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/honoring-10172016165853.html


(photo-Kirti Monastery in Tibet just built a very lavish residence for their abbot)

What Thaimonk said is very logical. The logical reason why most self-immolators comes from that area is that they have a brainwashing centre there. Self-immolation is not an act that anyone would have the courage to do so. The motivation behind the act must be very enticing such as heaven for the afterlife for supporting Dalai Lama by going against China.

It will be just like the terrorist who promised them 72 virgins in heaven waiting for them if they die by suicide bombing. I wonder what are the lamas and monks from Kirti branch monastery are doing. Did they not try to educate the public that taking one's life is against Buddha's teaching and perhaps advise the public to no do something so drastic? Maybe they are the one brainwashing the public since religion is very influential in Tibet.

It is very sad to see how CTA use the name of His Holiness the Dalai Lama to control the people and even indirectly influencing them to kill themselves just for their own benefit. That is why CTA never tell their people to stop self-immolating. In fact, they encourage it by glorifying it further which tells us their ulterior motive. I wonder what is the end of such an evil government?

Tracy

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The CTA will not ask the Tibetan in Tibet to stop self-immolating. They need more cases for them to ask for more money from their sponsors.  They use someone's death to make money for themselves. This is every disturbing.

For the past 60 years, the CTA has been receiving donations from people for their survival in India. The money comes very easy, no hard work, just play the victim. They get millions of dollars from the sponsors but no one really knows where the money goes. Recently, it was found that Lobsang Sangay siphoned USD1.5 million!

The more sufferings the CTA can present to the sponsors, they more money they can get. Self-immolation is the perfect case for the CTA to get more sympathy from their sponsor thus more donation. For this, they will never ask the Tibetans to stop self-immolation.