Author Topic: Discovery of the shocking truth revealed by the head of Karma Kagyu lineage  (Read 1395 times)

Rowntree

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Since 1983, the tradition of the Kagyu Monlam Chenmo (Great Prayer Festival) was revived by His Eminence Kalu Rinpoche and His Eminence Bokar Rinpoche, every year this tradition that was established by His Holiness the 7th Karmapa Chodrak Gyatso, continue to bring together members of the Karma Kagyu lineage to pray for the benefit of all sentient beings. It is an event used to promote peace and harmony.

This year, the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje sent a special message through broadcast to the Monlam Festival where he openly expressed his frustration and its reason. Not only did he criticised the behavior of the high lamas of his tradition, he also directly blamed the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA; Tibetan leadership in Dharamsala) for being controlled politically for 18 years and how depressed he is to be dragged into the political scene.

One interesting point he mentioned was his wish to have joined the Gelug tradition and to be trained in that complete Tibetan Buddhism monastic education system. The Gelug tradition is well known for the well rounded systematic monastic system but since he has a position to hold, as the head of the Karma Kagyu school, it is only logical that he is trained in the tradition which he claimed to be incomplete. I wonder if he wish to practise Dorje Shugden as well.

DharmaSpace

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The 16th Karmapa did mention that one day many people would have to rely on Dorje Shugden, this was quoted by Dagom Dorjechang. So it is no surprise, the 17th Karmapa said this. I do think knowledge and training are ever necessary for such reincarnate lamas to be better equipped to turn the wheel of dharma and the CTA seeks to create divisions and disharmony amongst the the three pillars of Gaden reestablished in India. 

Yes CTA, has turned the Tibetans in exile community into a highly politicized nation, and not a spiritual one like how they want to portray themselves as.   

michaela

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The 17th Karmapa's speech really revealed many things re the problem in Karma Kagyu lineage. If we look at the life story of Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, he did not have it easy.

First he left China to India to have more freedom to practice his belief without much pressure. But in India, the CTA has been trying to control him too, he was facing a lot of internal problem from his closest people.

I do hope he won't resign and continue to be a great lama that benefit many.

dsnowlion

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I was actually quite sad to see his sharing. He sounded very sad, frustrated and it is proof that the Tibetan leadership may have been very very controlling over him and also he did not like politics but looks like he was pressured to get involved... probably to condemn us Dorje Shugden practitioners!

All he wanted to sincerely do was study and learn Dharma. I respect him a whole lot more now and I think he is definitely a real Boddhisattva. Only one with such pure mind would say something like this. Or this shows a very true and pure Dharma practitioner.

I do hope something positive will happen and may the Karmapa be able to expand his education and learn from the best teachers, Gelug or not, Dharma is Dharma... hey maybe he can learn from H.H Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche? I believe the Kagyupas and the Gelugs used to have a close relationship  ;)

If the Karmapa comes here, I hope he does not give up but speak up more. It is inspiring!

Pema8

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Listening to the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley reveals the many difficulties that he has to face. Although being recognised, he has not received the training for his difficult and vast task.

It is quite painful to see what happens in Tibetan Buddhism and the many obstacles that different schools have to face. I believe that the Karmapa only wants the best yet so much depends on him and the harmony within the Kagyu school with the Sharmapa issue for example.

I think that our time is crucial and the survival of Buddhism needs the glorious and all powerful Dorje Shugden to guide us through these though times.


Harold Musetescu

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I really would not be surprised if the 17th Karampa suddenly returned to Tibet.

There he would live in the "Official" Karmapa's monastery and not rent a room in a Gelugpa monastery.

In Tibet he would be treated by his Lamas and attendants as the real 17th Karmapa and not as poorly as he's stated he has been in India.

He would have access to all the living Karma Kagyu Masters in Tibet and not have to hope for a visit from one of his "Three Heart Sons".

The utter disrespect he has suffered in India is disgusting.

Go home, Ogyen Trinley Dorje, go home to Tibet.

PrajNa

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I asked a few Tibetan Buddhist practitioners who are in the scene, and some told me they were disappointed with the Karmapa. They were of the opinion that the Karmapa just went on and on about his difficulties and challenges, and how he did not receive a proper education, how he had problems in India, how his Changtso are mismanaging him. Just a lot of complaints that he gets no support and if he wants to continue, he expects support. No wonder he is depressed.

I personally think think that nothing will change. The situation in India is not getting any better, thanks to the leadership, or rather lack of, by Lobsang Sangay, and now the Indians are starting to snub the Dalai Lama, despite saying that they respect His Holiness as a religious figure.

One even suggests for Karmapa to just stay in the US, get foreign disciples, and never go back to depressing India. By the way anyone heard anything about Karmapa's legal case? It was reported that the court will hear Karmapa's appeal for withdrawal of prosecution against him in a corruption case in February 2018. It's mid March.

Rowntree

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I suspect he is insinuating that he is not the real Karmapa. Perhaps the other Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje is the real one but he is quite confusing in the sense that he is married but he is still in robes. Only ordained people should be in robes, not lay. This confuses a lot of people and reduces the prestige of those holding the pure vow kindly laid out by Lord Buddha. No wonder Lama Tsongkhapa had to establish the Gelug tradition and emphasized the importance of holding vows. I believe it was way confusing and worst back in the 10-13th century before the establishment of the Gelug school.

Tracy

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What the17th Karmapa revealed in his message is shocking. Everyone thought he was happy India under the care of the CTA, but he was not. He came to India because many great Buddhist masters of Kagyu lineage were in India, he was very determined to learn the Dharma and then fulfill his duty to preserve and spread the lineage.

Unfortunately, the CTA is only using him as a political puppet. They want to groom him to become the successor of the 14th Dalai Lama. He did not have his own residence, he had to stay in a Gelug monastery.

Finally, he ran away from the CTA, took the citizenship of the Republic of Dominica and never went back to India. I must say he made a very wise choice. At least now he has the freedom to go around the world to give teachings without having to get the approval from the CTA or the Indian government.

Drolma

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It is so sad to see how degenerated the CTA has become. Tibetan Buddhism has become a commercial item for them to make money. High lamas are labeled with a price tag. No one in the CTA cares if the lineage is being protected and preserved.

It has been many years since the CTA starting to sell Dharma. For each public talk by the Dalai Lama overseas, the CTA gets money. They know people are after the fame of the high lamas, not beause CTA is somebody.

Now that the Dalai Lama is old, they have to have someone of a similar status to do what the Dalai Lama has been doing. Hence, the grooming of the 17th Karmapa. Unfortunately, the 17th Karmapa does not want to be part of the dirty political game, he ran away for a better life so just so he can teach and preserve the lineage. He has made a right choice!

Tenzin K

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Re: Discovery of the shocking truth revealed by the head of Karma Kagyu lineage
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2019, 03:07:27 AM »
This is interesting but at the same time it’s sad to know that the 17th Karmapa is being controlled politically for 18 years that affected his spiritual education. That is the downside of politic involvement in spiritual. How can CTA be in control over the sangha as they are laypeople and what they know about sangha conduct? Karma Kargyu is an established and authentic Tibetan school that has been produced so many great practitioners. It’s sad to know that Ogyen Trinley didn’t trained well in his monastic education.

Ogyen Trinley action really give CTA a big slap and proven to the world that how bad CTA is in damaging the Tibetan Buddhism. I truly inspired by the Ogyen Trinley which he braves enough to make a different for better instead of being a puppet under CTA. Whether he’s the real Karmapa is not the question anymore but his action does show that he’s a true practitioners and stand to protect the Buddha Dharma.

Drolma

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Re: Discovery of the shocking truth revealed by the head of Karma Kagyu lineage
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2019, 05:15:47 AM »
This is interesting but at the same time it’s sad to know that the 17th Karmapa is being controlled politically for 18 years that affected his spiritual education. That is the downside of politic involvement in spiritual. How can CTA be in control over the sangha as they are laypeople and what they know about sangha conduct? Karma Kargyu is an established and authentic Tibetan school that has been produced so many great practitioners. It’s sad to know that Ogyen Trinley didn’t trained well in his monastic education.

Ogyen Trinley action really give CTA a big slap and proven to the world that how bad CTA is in damaging the Tibetan Buddhism. I truly inspired by the Ogyen Trinley which he braves enough to make a different for better instead of being a puppet under CTA. Whether he’s the real Karmapa is not the question anymore but his action does show that he’s a true practitioners and stand to protect the Buddha Dharma.
The 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is a sincere Dharma practitioners. He wants to spread Dharma very badly because that is his mission of life. He can get money and fame by staying with the CTA and all he has to do is to listen to them but these are not what he wants. He took the risk to run away from the CTA so he can fulfil his wish to become a Dharma teacher.

Another courageous thing the 17th Karmpa Ogyen Trinley Dorje has done is the reconcile with the other Karmapa. If the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is a power and money hunger lama, he will never reconcile with the other Karmapa. He will be doing what Lobsang Sangay is doing, traveling around the world, undermining the other Karmapa and claiming he is the real one, but he didn't. Both Karmapas even jointly written a long life prayer for Sharmapa. How wonderful!

The Karmapas can put down their difference so their lineage can continue to spread and benefit people, when is the CTA going to do the same to resolve the conflicts in the Tibetan community?

Tracy

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Re: Discovery of the shocking truth revealed by the head of Karma Kagyu lineage
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 08:55:03 AM »
This is interesting but at the same time it’s sad to know that the 17th Karmapa is being controlled politically for 18 years that affected his spiritual education. That is the downside of politic involvement in spiritual. How can CTA be in control over the sangha as they are laypeople and what they know about sangha conduct? Karma Kargyu is an established and authentic Tibetan school that has been produced so many great practitioners. It’s sad to know that Ogyen Trinley didn’t trained well in his monastic education.

Ogyen Trinley action really give CTA a big slap and proven to the world that how bad CTA is in damaging the Tibetan Buddhism. I truly inspired by the Ogyen Trinley which he braves enough to make a different for better instead of being a puppet under CTA. Whether he’s the real Karmapa is not the question anymore but his action does show that he’s a true practitioners and stand to protect the Buddha Dharma.
This has always been the plan of the CTA, to groom the 17th Karmapa to be the successor of the Dalai Lama. The CTA knows that without a high lama to continue to represent them, to make them look wiser, they will soon lose the support from the public. Losing support from the public meaning losing money. The next high lama after the Dalai Lama is the Karmapa. That is why the CTA welcomed the 17th Karmapa when he ran away from China. Fortunately, the 17th Karmapa is a real practitioner, he is not interested in money and power. All he wants to do is to teach Dharma. This is indeed shocking to learn how he felt about the CTA but what he has said is very true.