Author Topic: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations  (Read 8191 times)

DharmaDefender

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Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« on: August 20, 2017, 01:40:41 AM »
https://youtu.be/AkciWqBBg9M

One of the channels I subscribed to just uploaded this second vid on self immolations. Its an interesting one because some Tibetans are protesting against the Dalai Lama and his silence on self immolations. The first older chap, Lhasang Tsering, is an outspoken activist from Dharmsala who has been protesting for over 30 years. From what he says in the short snippet, seems like the fellas frustrated by the lack of progress in the movement and the Dalai Lamas failed methods of winning back independence for Tibet.

Regardless of my personal feelings about anti-Shugden people, I can see how and why hed be frustrated and strangely feel a little sorry for him. Must be rubbish living under the rule of a government that you know wont be able to get much done. And remember yeah, hes on the Beeb so his criticisms are being broadcasted worldwide, publicly and to basically everyone who has a telly.

Then youve got the second fella, Karma Chophel who is a Tibetan member of parliament out there on the streets in a hunger strike to protest the Dalai Lama.

Imagine if a Dorje Shugden person were to speak like that, or to go on a hunger strike against the Dalai Lama. Imagine the wrath that would follow!

Rowntree

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 03:54:02 AM »
Double standard. As long as you are not on the hot seat, you can basically do anything since the CTA is supposed to practise democracy on the surface. This is the same with any other country since politicians are still politicians, their lives are used to do the complete opposite of what they say, generally speaking. The CTA is definitely like this not only from their actions but also their demeanor. They are a bunch of corrupted, small minded and greedy arseh**e who are out to use their power for their personal gain.

Lhasang Tsering and Karma Chophel are knocking on the wrong door since the Dalai Lama has passed all his political responsibilities to the so-called President who have done nothing but to get himself a USA citizenship, migrated his family there and had his mortgage cleared from the kind donations people from all around the world gave. These two chaps should really save their energies barking at the Dalai Lama and destroying their own health. They should just take up the Indian citizenships and encourage more people to do so and really live their life for a greater purpose.

Shitty "government" will always remain shitty as this is the nature of samsara!

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 09:48:25 AM »
Rowntree, you are kind to say DOUBLE STANDARD of the attitude of the CTA.  I would say it is massacre of their people.  How nice let them die off by suicide and less people to take care.  Even however minimal the care maybe is still a burden to the corrupt members of the CTA leaders.

The more the Tibetans self immolate, the more CTA can get donations, with a victim story.  The Donors should wake up and realise that CTA will not and cannot do anything. 

If the Tibetans are frustrated, the Donors should feel worse.

AshRao

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 03:18:19 PM »
Rowntree, no matter who should be commenting or making policies about stopping self-immolations, the fact is that it should not be happening. Whether you want to come at it from the religious angle, coming from the Dalai Lama, or the political angle, from the Central Tibetan Administration, neither have done anything about it. Instead their silence, is passive acceptance or even encouragement for such acts to keep on occurring. If neither of the two most important spheres of influence within the Tibetan community stop these acts, something is seriously wrong. Something is seriously wrong because the current way the whole community is set up, there is no value on human life. And communities that do not value human life, degenerate quickly, like terrorists. But perhaps that is what the CTA actually are, terrorists in guise of a leadership? Any thoughts?

dsnowlion

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 06:57:28 PM »
No way a Dorje Shugden person(s) would ever be allowed to talk like that or even be allowed to hold a protest of like this and to be interviewed on BBC for the whole world to see! Wow... this would never ever be allowed to a Shugden practitioner, they would literally be killed I believe.

Tibetans are speaking up more and more now with their frustration in the way the Tibetan leadership is treating them. I think this is all karma returning in full circle to them for what they have done to their people. Decades of oppression, tricks, lies and murder, all the horrible things they have done to their people for years is now coming back to them in the lack of faith and trusts.   

michaela

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 07:27:12 PM »
I think Lhasang Tsering was very brave in speaking up his mind. I am sure many people including the family members of the victims do not want anymore self-immolation because nobody is happy to see perfectly healthy men to burn themselves and die in pain. It is about time for the Dalai Lama to step in and say that self-immolation is wrong.

Big Uncle

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 12:47:49 AM »
Wow! This shows how unhappy the Tibetans are with the current political situation with CTA and the stalemate CTA is with its negotiations with China. People are so unhappy that they are even will to criticise the Dalai Lama openly because they have reached wits end.

As the Tibetan leadership continues on to be at loggerheads with China, they continue to loose more ground and when it will reach a state where even self-immolations will have no effect. Even now, self-immolations would embarrass China, raised a few eyebrows but nothing substantial is accomplished. I really pity those that have given their lives for this cause that would have been for nothing.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Gabby Potter

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 04:11:02 AM »
Situations like this are not seen very often, Tibetans traditionally only listen to the Dalai Lama. If he asks them to walk, they won't dare to sit, and of course they are doing this due to their immense faith and respect in the Dalai Lama. What Lhasang Tsering says makes sense, Tibetans have been killing themselves in hope that Tibet will become free. But what they don't understand is, killing themselves is definitely not the way, because what can you achieve when you are dead? Life is precious, and it is in the Buddhist scriptures that killing is an extremely negative action, therefore we should not simply take our own life. The Dalai Lama knows clearly about this and what most Tibetan are wondering is why doesn't he comment on this issue? Why doesn't he say something to stop it? Why is he allowing people to self immolate by staying silent? I hope one day the Dalai Lama will speak up and discourage people to hurt themselves.

michaela

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2017, 03:20:32 PM »
Dear Gaby

I share your sentiment. Without reducing my respect for the Dalai Lama, I can't help but wonder why the Dalai Lama did not speak up to prevent Tibetan self-immolation. He is a Dharma teacher and he knows that committing suicide is wrong because killing oneself is wrong. How could someone see the self-immolation victim to die such a painful death for a lost cause such as Tibetan independence?

The Dalai Lama knows that there will never be a Tibetan independence, and that is the reason why he settled for the middle way. If you know the cause is lost, why don't prevent further casualties.

dsnowlion

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 07:18:52 PM »
But what they don't understand is, killing themselves is definitely not the way, because what can you achieve when you are dead? Life is precious, and it is in the Buddhist scriptures that killing is an extremely negative action, therefore we should not simply take our own life. The Dalai Lama knows clearly about this and what most Tibetan are wondering is why doesn't he comment on this issue? Why doesn't he say something to stop it? Why is he allowing people to self immolate by staying silent? I hope one day the Dalai Lama will speak up and discourage people to hurt themselves.

Yup you got it Gabby! They must realise who they are and where they stand in the world's eyes. Once they are dead, they are dead and who will then fight for their cause? They are sorry to say, no one important to the world. Ask someone on the street about Tibetans self-immolating, most would not even know about it. It is certainly a lost cause with so many countries rejecting them, the biggest blow would be Nepal as it is the gateway for Tibetans to enter and cross over to India, now that option is close. What are they going to do now? 

Pema8

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 06:25:59 AM »
There is no way that self-immolations will help anything against China. It is good that Tibetans speak up! They should speak up more and ask why their government does not stop people from harming themselves with no benefit for the Tibetan Cause!

Please find ways to get along with the Chinese government as nothing has worked now for 60 years. The CTA and Dalai Lama should protect their people from more harm. Not letting them harm themselves! This is why there is a government - to protect their people!

michaela

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 02:44:37 PM »
There is no way that self-immolations will help anything against China. It is good that Tibetans speak up! They should speak up more and ask why their government does not stop people from harming themselves with no benefit for the Tibetan Cause!

Please find ways to get along with the Chinese government as nothing has worked now for 60 years. The CTA and Dalai Lama should protect their people from more harm. Not letting them harm themselves! This is why there is a government - to protect their people!

Dear Pema

Although initially the CTA president Dr. Lobsang Sangay praised the Tibetan self-immolation victims, lately he issued a statement to discourage self-immolation. However, although he is the head of the Tibetan government in exile, he does not have the type of charisma and influence that the Dalai Lama has. Dr. Lobsang Sangay is only an opportunist that would say anything if it increases his popularity. The Dalai Lama should speak up against self-immolation and much more people will listen to him.

AshRao

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2017, 05:19:37 PM »
Quote
Although initially the CTA president Dr. Lobsang Sangay praised the Tibetan self-immolation victims, lately he issued a statement to discourage self-immolation.

Michaela, can you provide a link to the where you found this news? I haven't see it before, It'll be good for the conversation here. Even if he has issued such a statement, he most probably would not have done it from his own accord. He probably had people pressuring him to release such a statement. If he had never commented on it in the past, but had done the opposite, it doesn't make sense that he would all of a sudden turn around so quickly. More than likely he is facing increased pressure from his own people to say something, and he has done so to cover his face and that is it.

Tibetans are obviously becoming more critical of not only the Dalai Lama but the Tibetan leadership, and this has to translate into some form of action on the part of the Tibetan leadership to remedy the situation. But the matter of the fact remains, no matter what they, it will not make a difference until they put their words into actions and take a real stance against self-immolation, and a whole host of other issues plaguing the community, such as the ban on Dorje Shugden, and many others.

Big Uncle

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 06:21:47 PM »
There is no way that self-immolations will help anything against China. It is good that Tibetans speak up! They should speak up more and ask why their government does not stop people from harming themselves with no benefit for the Tibetan Cause!

Please find ways to get along with the Chinese government as nothing has worked now for 60 years. The CTA and Dalai Lama should protect their people from more harm. Not letting them harm themselves! This is why there is a government - to protect their people!

Dear Pema

Although initially the CTA president Dr. Lobsang Sangay praised the Tibetan self-immolation victims, lately he issued a statement to discourage self-immolation. However, although he is the head of the Tibetan government in exile, he does not have the type of charisma and influence that the Dalai Lama has. Dr. Lobsang Sangay is only an opportunist that would say anything if it increases his popularity. The Dalai Lama should speak up against self-immolation and much more people will listen to him.
Michaela,

From what I read recently, he merely expressed concern about the self-immolation occurring in Tibet recently as a means to agree with it. He was just reacting perfunctorily on the matter and not  His statement did not say that he is discouraging so I am not sure where you are getting your news or that you have read the news wrongly. I hope you are not getting your facts wrong about this one.

Aurore

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Re: Tibetans critical of Dalai Lamas stance on self immolations
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2017, 06:28:27 PM »
"Not facing reality and forcing Tibetans to commit suicide", says Lhasang Tsering.


IMHO, it appears the Tibetans are calling out to their spiritual leader to give up on the Tibetan cause! After 53 years of non-violence and peaceful means, it has brought no success but only despair, anger and death from self-immolation.

It will not be surprising that long term activists like Lhasang Tsering came to this realization. After all, he fought for 30 years and nothing? It's time for Dalai Lama to come to a realization as well and stop this fight. Stop self-immolations because that would be agreeing to violence and contradicts what he preaches.