Author Topic: What's up with the Noob's?  (Read 37753 times)

crazycloud

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What's up with the Noob's?
« on: February 02, 2010, 05:06:38 PM »
So what's the deal with a whole slew of Newbies all joining more or less at the same time (from January 12 to Jan 19 or so), and then all representing the same (or similar views) back and forth in what look like conversations?

Is it just me?

I'm all for diversity of views, but on of the things that makes this forum refreshing is that we keep it real, and this stuff doesn't feel real to me, it looks staged.

main points of the conversation....
  • WSS book not enjoyable.
    Dalai Lama is a wisdom being pretending to be against Ds to spread the practice.

There is a lack of clarity in these views, and they look to me to be a result of fear of being straigthforward about what is going on. If the DL is actually promoting the practice by opposing it, and people keep mentioning how he keeps up a hard stand for appearances, then we also need to do our part and keep the attention-getting conflict going. So why are we being urged to keep quiet, focus on our practice, "make love, not war?"

If DL pretends to make war, we should do the same. If DL indicates the time to let the conflict die down has come, let's do that. But it makes no sense that we should allow DL to slander our practice and use his political power to oppress pratitioners, while we keep quiet and do not oppose him.

Just my two cents. Sorry if I have misrepresented anyone, as a noob myself, I'm always glad to see new voices on the forum....



emptymountains

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 06:07:03 PM »
Quote
...then we also need to do our part and keep the attention-getting conflict going. So why are we being urged to keep quiet, focus on our practice, "make love, not war?"

Excellent! The whole "maybe there's a bigger picture" take on things makes me want to puke.

a friend

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 06:48:48 PM »
I agree that it does not sound real. That´s why I was saying that it seems that Beggar procreated and his kids are invading the website. Although I love Beggar very much we kept until the end this serious disagreement about his wrong view "DL and DSh spreading Dharma together".

Whoever he is or they are, one thing is sure, debaters they ain´t. They are incapable of finding one single good reason to counter what we have already told them. Of course, how can they answer Lord Atisha´s view about conventional truth ... So, they just keep repeating their feel-good gospel. They remind me politicians that just keep repeating what goes against truth or reason in the hope that a bunch of innocent people is going to take them seriously.

Well, this is a free country.

 

Lineageholder

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 07:01:59 PM »
Excellent! The whole "maybe there's a bigger picture" take on things makes me want to puke.

Amen Brother!  Let's tell it like it is.  I completely endorse the WSS view that the Dalai Lama is an ordinary being, an imposter, who is harming the Dharma.  Why can't it be so?  I'm sorry if that upsets those who have faith in the Dalai Lama.

Of course the Dalai Lama has given Dharma teachings to thousands but his teachings are popular because of the big name he's developed for himself as a Buddhist holy being, emanation of the Buddha of Compassion, but mainly due to the power of the Dharma. where did those teachings come from?  Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang and Ling Dorjechang, but does the Dalai Lama ever mention them AT ALL?  No - he gives the teachings as if they are his own whilst disparaging his Gurus.

That tells me all I need to know about his motivation.

DharmaDefender

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 07:57:04 PM »
So what's the deal with a whole slew of Newbies all joining more or less at the same time (from January 12 to Jan 19 or so), and then all representing the same (or similar views) back and forth in what look like conversations?

Is it just me?

I'm all for diversity of views, but on of the things that makes this forum refreshing is that we keep it real, and this stuff doesn't feel real to me, it looks staged.

main points of the conversation....
  • WSS book not enjoyable.
    Dalai Lama is a wisdom being pretending to be against Ds to spread the practice.

There is a lack of clarity in these views, and they look to me to be a result of fear of being straigthforward about what is going on. If the DL is actually promoting the practice by opposing it, and people keep mentioning how he keeps up a hard stand for appearances, then we also need to do our part and keep the attention-getting conflict going. So why are we being urged to keep quiet, focus on our practice, "make love, not war?"

If DL pretends to make war, we should do the same. If DL indicates the time to let the conflict die down has come, let's do that. But it makes no sense that we should allow DL to slander our practice and use his political power to oppress pratitioners, while we keep quiet and do not oppose him.

Just my two cents. Sorry if I have misrepresented anyone, as a noob myself, I'm always glad to see new voices on the forum....

As one of the noobs I assume you're talking about, I agree with you - there probably is a lack of clarity in my views, hence why I joined the forum, to expand my knowledge. I'm getting pretty fed up of people criticising our Protector, talking badly about high lamas and at the same time, being very disrespectful to His Holiness.

Anyway, I think the "keep quiet and focus on our practice" advice applies more to those vehemently against or for the practice because there's just no balance in those views and it doesn't serve anyone. In fact, for a lot of newbies who have just come in on the issue, it becomes even more confusing and might even turn them away from Buddhism (just look at A Great Deception - if that was the first 'dharma' book I read, I wouldn't want to be Buddhist).

You know what? Very good point re "If DL pretends to make war, we should do the same." - I never thought about it that way! That's definitely something I'll keep in mind...but it doesn't mean I'll ever talk bad about the Dalai Lama. I can't, the karmic reprecussion for me would be too great because I don't know if my motivation is pure! (I can say it's pure but whether it really is, is a different story!) Likewise for those who criticise him, perhaps?

emptymountains

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 08:59:40 PM »
I just got two comments posted back-to-back on my blog. They are coming from two different Gmail accounts, but from the same IP address. Their comments are different variations on the theme: "I am a DS practitioner, but I don't like the book." I can discern some similarities between the Gmail accounts and some handles being used on this forum. I suspect sock puppetry. Needless to say, I won't be approving their comments.

Lineageholder

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 10:07:22 PM »
There's similar junk on 'American Buddhist':

http://www.americanbuddhist.net/don039t-be-disheartened-re-dalai-lama-amp-dorje-shugden

'what do you think?' gave it away.... ;)

Zhalmed Pawo

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 10:24:18 PM »
A case of a Dharma Centre or a Sangha who have just found the internet, or a case of dilettantes? ??? ;D

a friend

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 11:04:56 PM »
Dear Dharmadefender, and whoever has been writing along the same lines as yourself.

There is a difference between it doesn't mean I'll ever talk bad about the Dalai Lama and propounding that the Dalai Lama did what he did out of some secret good motivation, because he is a Great Bodhisattva.
There is no Buddha that ever campaigned against his Gurus,
ever campaigned against the lineage Gurus,
ever dared say that his Gurus are WRONG, yes, with this tone, WRONG, and he, right;
ever forced people to break their samaya with their own Gurus,
ever forced a schism in the Sangha
ever persecuted people, let alone for religious reasons.

Lord Atisha didn´t do it
Lord Tsong Khapa didn´t do it

This should suffice for anyone that uses his mind with the tools of reasoning --a very special characteristic of our lineage-- to stop saying such nonsense as we´ve read from some posts in the last days. I would like those who are writing along those lines, whether they are one or many, Noobs or oldies, to think twice before demeaning the enlightened actions of our Buddhas by comparing them to the actions of the Tibetan leader.
One thing is to say I don't know which his intentions were, another, entirely different, is to speculate that he might´ve had good motivations. In Buddhism there is no good motivations for the list of actions described above, in particular there is no good motivation to mistreat your Lama, to betray him. So instead of speculating about the bad karma that those who criticize the DL might incur, think on the karmic repercusions for yourself or those who are disseminating this terrible view, that Guru Buddhas can act in such non Dharmic ways and still be called Guru Buddhas. Now, this brings the destruction of Dharma, to confuse people about such serious matter. So please for your own sake, think twice.

emptymountains

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 11:55:28 PM »
So, now we can add "Pathseeker" to the list. One emanation of the person who posted on my blog today just started their own blog:

Quote
http://gazoksas.wordpress.com/

a friend

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 01:50:20 AM »
Lineageholder,

I looked into that website and it´s exactly the same words with which Beggar started this Dorjeshugden.com website. So my joke about Beggar having kids was a mistake, it´s Beggar himself riding again the internet. Wow.

Beggar,

you should´ve told us. We could've given you a big Welcome Back party ...
Anyway, we are back to the same subject, and we continue to be in disagreement about this DL-DSh contraption of yours. Talk to us openly, no need to hide behind triple masks.


Lineageholder

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 07:50:56 AM »
Dear Beggar,

Welcome back! Why do you need to hide behind multiple IDs such as 'iloveds', 'Vajraprotector', Dharmadefender', 'pathseeker', and 'dsnowlion'?

Do you think that posting the same arguments over and over again under different names will give the impression of widespread acceptance of your view of 'Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden spreading Dharma together' and perhaps convince people to ignore the facts and adopt a wrong view?

Mohani

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 08:34:13 AM »
Hi all
It's not necessarily Beggar, they could just have liked his view and lifted the blurb from this web site!

DharmaDefender

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 01:10:40 PM »
So, now we can add "Pathseeker" to the list. One emanation of the person who posted on my blog today just started their own blog:

Quote
http://gazoksas.wordpress.com/



Sorry to spoil your fun but that's actually me ;D

emptymountains

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Re: What's up with the Noob's?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2010, 01:18:06 PM »
Quote
Sorry to spoil your fun but that's actually me


Exactly! dharmadefender = wisdombeing = gazoksas, do you deny it? Why are you all using the same IP address?

I see you have found a more sympathetic ear on Tenzin Peljor's anti-DS blog:

http://thedorjeshugdengroup.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/amazon-unlocks-a-secret/#comment-930
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 01:26:58 PM by emptymountains »