Author Topic: Dorje Shugden oracle composes long life prayer for Geshe Kelsang Gyatso  (Read 37036 times)

Lineageholder

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There is no reference anywhere to a "common tradition of Mahamudra". What is this view? Mahamudra is not common, is not ordinary and is taught but not governed by the crown ornament of the scholars of the land of the snows. Mahamudra is something in this above view, but the truth is not a fixed view.

There is a common lineage of Mahamudra that is shared between the Kagyu and Gelugpa traditions and was practised by Milarepa and his disciples which comes from the Six Yogas of Naropa. The principal object of meditation of this method is the tummo or inner fire at the navel channel wheel.

The uncommon lineage of Mahamudra is very rare and very few know about it. It comes from the Ganden Oral Lineage, from the Ganden Emanation Scripture which was passed directly from Buddha Manjushri to Je Tsongkhapa. The first Panchen Lama extracted these instructions and wrote them down in ordinary language in his text, The Main Path of the Conquerors. The principal object of meditation of this method is the indestructible drop at the centre of the heart channel wheel.

According to Trijang Rinpoche's assistant, Palden-la, the principal holder of these instructions in this modern age is Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche. A detailed explanation of the instructions can be found in his book The Oral Instructions of Mahamudra published by Tharpa Publications.

JD

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There is no reference anywhere to a "common tradition of Mahamudra". What is this view? Mahamudra is not common, is not ordinary and is taught but not governed by the crown ornament of the scholars of the land of the snows. Mahamudra is something in this above view, but the truth is not a fixed view.

There is a common lineage of Mahamudra that is shared between the Kagyu and Gelugpa traditions and was practised by Milarepa and his disciples which comes from the Six Yogas of Naropa. The principal object of meditation of this method is the tummo or inner fire at the navel channel wheel.

The uncommon lineage of Mahamudra is very rare and very few know about it. It comes from the Ganden Oral Lineage, from the Ganden Emanation Scripture which was passed directly from Buddha Manjushri to Je Tsongkhapa. The first Panchen Lama extracted these instructions and wrote them down in ordinary language in his text, The Main Path of the Conquerors. The principal object of meditation of this method is the indestructible drop at the centre of the heart channel wheel.

According to Trijang Rinpoche's assistant, Palden-la, the principal holder of these instructions in this modern age is Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche. A detailed explanation of the instructions can be found in his book The Oral Instructions of Mahamudra published by Tharpa Publications.

Rejoice that the Ganden Oral Lineage has spread in the 10 directions! Mahamudra is not common or uncommon. The instructions on the indestructible drop are in Part 2 of The Oral Instructions of Mahamudra. The book extends into Part 4 with great detail. I am blessed to have a copy of the 2nd English edition - it was only first published 2015 - it is not clear when it was written.

In Part 3: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso writes on the self-generation as Heruka with consort in Part 3 (p97)- the section is presented as "An Instruction of the Ganden Oral Lineage". Gelugpa lineage lamas are named in the Mahamudra lineage prayers on p249. The practice is in the lineage and the high Gelug lamas are transmitting the instructions, including other subtle practices too. May Geshe Kelsang Gyatso manifest strong and well to give his oral transmission.

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso refers to Mahasiddha Ghantapa: p100, p127, p146. Who is Mahasiddha Ghantapa? <3 We can benefit GREATLY from reading about the exalted life of Ghantapa in these very confused times.

In Part 4: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso writes about consort practice, especially p138-147. Let there be no doubt, this is expressed very clearly.

If Geshe Kelsang Gyatso authored this book, then we can be clear that his message is of peace and ultimate truth.

May the NKT managers not be obstructed by ordinary appearance. If you see something you do not like, examine closely what you do not like, where is that adversion coming from? May there be massive inspiration and energy arising from restoring samaya. There is great love and compassion out there.

May everyone be so blessed <3 overflowing with love for everyone!



Lineageholder

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You state in your reply that Mahamudra is not common or uncommon but this is incorrect. In Tantric Grounds and Paths, Geshe Kelsang says:

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In Clear Light of Bliss, I explain how to bring the inner winds into the central channel through the sixth of the ten doors, the centre of the navel channel wheel. We do this by visualizing our inner heat inside our navel channel in the aspect of a short-AH and meditating on this. This is a common practice that accords with the tradition of the Six Yogas of Naropa. It was originally explained in Hevajra Root Tantra by Buddha Vajradhara, and since then has been used by many Kagyu? practitioners such as Milarepa and his disciples, and later by practitioners in Je Tsongkhapa's tradition. However, within our tradition we have the uncommon Vajrayana Mahamudra practice of the oral lineage of the unequalled Virtuous Tradition. This is a very special practice of Vajrayana Mahamudra that Je Tsongkhapa received directly from Manjushri, who had received it directly from Buddha Vajradhara.

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso refers to Mahasiddha Ghantapa: p100, p127, p146. Who is Mahasiddha Ghantapa? <3 We can benefit GREATLY from reading about the exalted life of Ghantapa in these very confused times.

I don't understand what point you're making here. All ordained people need to get consorts? The example of Mahasiddha Ghantapa taking a consort is not for the Gelugpa tradition any more than the example of Chogyam Trungpa or false Trijang Choktrul is. We can be inspired by his pure practice but, as I explain below, the uncommon practice of Mahamudra makes consort practice unnecessary.

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In Part 4: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso writes about consort practice, especially p138-147. Let there be no doubt, this is expressed very clearly.

Yes he does because he's presenting Heruka instructions in the context of the common Mahamudra lineage. You will note that he says on page 146:

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In some texts, and as mentioned above, it says that to attain the ultimate example clear light we finally need to rely upon the action mudra or wait until our death. This is in general. In particular, practitioners such as Gyalwa Ensapa and many of his disciples attained ultimate example clear light and meaning clear light and became Buddhas by attaining the Union of No More Learning through the power of the blessings of the Ganden Oral Lineage instructions without relying upon an action mudra.

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May the NKT managers not be obstructed by ordinary appearance. If you see something you do not like, examine closely what you do not like, where is that adversion coming from? May there be massive inspiration and energy arising from restoring samaya. There is great love and compassion out there.

I would like to say the same to you - if you see a strange example, such as a Lineage Holder disrobing, getting married and having a child in contradiction with the life and values of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche whilst claiming to be the Tulku of this great Lama, and at the same time being followed by Shugden monasteries in contradiction with Je Tsongkhapa's tradition, you should question whether this is correct behaviour or not instead of thinking "well, he's Trijang Rinpoche so he can do anything he likes". Using Dharma to justify such unwise behaviour would be abusing Dharma so I hope that your reference to Mahasiddha Ghantapa is not intended for this purpose. Please do not close your eyes to this - the purpose of Tantra is not to excuse wrong moral behaviour. Abandoning ordinary appearance doesn't mean 'anything goes'.

I've said everything I need to say on this topic so likely I will not reply to further posts. May all beings swiftly attain enlightenment and may Je Tsongkhapa's pure tradition flourish forevermore.

Matibhadra

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if you see a strange example, such as a Lineage Holder disrobing, getting married and having a child

So what. The great bodhisattva Vimalakirti was married, had children, and even run a business, but still was above Manjushri and other bodisattvas, and equal only to the Buddha.

The Buddha himself used to be married, and even had a child, Rahula, a deed which is included in his twelve deeds, known as “delighting in the company of the royal consorts”.

Let alone many other mahasiddhas, even Virupa, the previous incarnation of Dorje Shugden, was evicted from the Nalanda monastery after being caught partying with attractive girls is his cell.

Therefore, there could be hardly a more stupid statement than the one above, suggesting that a lineage holder could not disrobe, get married, or have children.

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in contradiction with the life and values of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche

If so, the previous Trijang Rinpoche would be in contradiction with the life and values of his own previous incarnation, Ra Lotsawa Dorje Drak, who was married and had children.

You ridiculous assumption here is that a lama's current incarnation has to be the exact clone of their previous incarnation, but you did not tell the rest of us from which book you took such a stupidity.

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whilst claiming to be the Tulku of this great Lama,

Which is nothing compared to your own preposterous claim to know how a great lama should reincarnate.

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and at the same time being followed by Shugden monasteries in contradiction with Je Tsongkhapa's tradition,

If so, you should be able to point to the exact passage in Je Tsongkhapa's eighteen volumes where he says that only monastics can hold his tradition.

But maybe you are just confounding NKT's corporate handbooks and policies with the pure scriptures and teachings emanating from Je Tsongkhapa.

Besides, according to your adopted NKT's corporate policies, Shugden monasteries could not follow the Buddha, let alone Saraha, Ghantapa, Luipa, Darikapa, Ra Lotsawa, and so forth.

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you should question whether this is correct behaviour or not

What then precisely is “incorrect” according to you?

To marry and have children as Buddha Shakyamuni, Vimalakirti, and Ra Lotsawa-Trijang Rinpoche did? Or to disrobe as Virupa-Dorje Shugden, Saraha and Ghantapa did?

You might remember that Ghantapa, the very source of the lineage of many of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's most profound teachings, is ironically known as “the monk who became a householder”.

As you can see, NKT, with its obsessive puritanism, and its politically-motivated, corporate-driven approach, has broken Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's lineage, and is now just a corpse, a corporate corpse.

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instead of thinking "well, he's Trijang Rinpoche so he can do anything he likes".

So wrong. One should think “well, he's Trijang Rinpoche so he can only do what some greedy NKT eunuch-bureaucrat transvestite as monk allows him to do”, is it?

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Using Dharma to justify such unwise behaviour would be abusing Dharma so I hope that your reference to Mahasiddha Ghantapa is not intended for this purpose.

What about abusing Dharma to ensure the survival of a caste of greedy pseudo-monks afraid of seeing the demise of their corporate NKT after Geshe Kelsang Gyatso passes away?

Otherwise, what precisely is “unwise” with Ghantapa's behavior according to you puritanistic NKT handbook? Or with Buddha's, Vimalakirti's, Virupa's, Saraha's, or Ra




 Please do not close your eyes to this - the purpose of Tantra is not to excuse wrong moral behaviour. Abandoning ordinary appearance doesn't mean 'anything goes'.

I've said everything I need to say on this topic so likely I will not reply to further posts. May all beings swiftly attain enlightenment and may Je Tsongkhapa's pure tradition flourish forevermore.

Matibhadra

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Using Dharma to justify such unwise behaviour would be abusing Dharma so I hope that your reference to Mahasiddha Ghantapa is not intended for this purpose.

What about abusing Dharma to ensure the survival of a caste of greedy pseudo-monks afraid of seeing the demise of their corporate NKT after Geshe Kelsang Gyatso passes away?

Otherwise, what precisely is “unwise” with Ghantapa's behavior according to you puritanistic NKT handbook? Or with Buddha's, Vimalakirti's, Virupa's, Saraha's, or Ra Lotsawa's behavior to that effect?

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Please do not close your eyes to this - the purpose of Tantra is not to excuse wrong moral behaviour.

Then according to your newly invented, eunuch-corporate pseudo-Dharma, getting married and having children is “wrong moral behavior”, right? Could you please quote the precise book and page where your stated teacher, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, says such an idiocy?

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Abandoning ordinary appearance doesn't mean 'anything goes'.

Let alone abandoning “ordinary appearance”, you would profit from abandoning pseudo-Dharma tenets asserted by some greedy corporate eunuch anxious to ensure the survival of their doomed corporation.

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I've said everything I need to say on this topic

Did you say anything?

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so likely I will not reply to further posts.

Wrong. You will keep compulsively blabbering your hate propaganda until some NKT eunuch-bureaucrat tells you to stop because your stupid arguments bring more harm than help to their sordid enterprise.

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May all beings swiftly attain enlightenment and may Je Tsongkhapa's pure tradition flourish forevermore.

You are lying. Just what you want is to ensure NKT's corporate survival.

Erstvollzug

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Matibadhra,

Your debate, examples and reasonings are excellent.
I enjoy reading what you post. Excellent logic!





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if you see a strange example, such as a Lineage Holder disrobing, getting married and having a child

So what. The great bodhisattva Vimalakirti was married, had children, and even run a business, but still was above Manjushri and other bodisattvas, and equal only to the Buddha.

The Buddha himself used to be married, and even had a child, Rahula, a deed which is included in his twelve deeds, known as “delighting in the company of the royal consorts”.

Let alone many other mahasiddhas, even Virupa, the previous incarnation of Dorje Shugden, was evicted from the Nalanda monastery after being caught partying with attractive girls is his cell.

Therefore, there could be hardly a more stupid statement than the one above, suggesting that a lineage holder could not disrobe, get married, or have children.

Quote
in contradiction with the life and values of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche

If so, the previous Trijang Rinpoche would be in contradiction with the life and values of his own previous incarnation, Ra Lotsawa Dorje Drak, who was married and had children.

You ridiculous assumption here is that a lama's current incarnation has to be the exact clone of their previous incarnation, but you did not tell the rest of us from which book you took such a stupidity.

Quote
whilst claiming to be the Tulku of this great Lama,

Which is nothing compared to your own preposterous claim to know how a great lama should reincarnate.

Quote
and at the same time being followed by Shugden monasteries in contradiction with Je Tsongkhapa's tradition,

If so, you should be able to point to the exact passage in Je Tsongkhapa's eighteen volumes where he says that only monastics can hold his tradition.

But maybe you are just confounding NKT's corporate handbooks and policies with the pure scriptures and teachings emanating from Je Tsongkhapa.

Besides, according to your adopted NKT's corporate policies, Shugden monasteries could not follow the Buddha, let alone Saraha, Ghantapa, Luipa, Darikapa, Ra Lotsawa, and so forth.

Quote
you should question whether this is correct behaviour or not

What then precisely is “incorrect” according to you?

To marry and have children as Buddha Shakyamuni, Vimalakirti, and Ra Lotsawa-Trijang Rinpoche did? Or to disrobe as Virupa-Dorje Shugden, Saraha and Ghantapa did?

You might remember that Ghantapa, the very source of the lineage of many of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's most profound teachings, is ironically known as “the monk who became a householder”.

As you can see, NKT, with its obsessive puritanism, and its politically-motivated, corporate-driven approach, has broken Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's lineage, and is now just a corpse, a corporate corpse.

Quote
instead of thinking "well, he's Trijang Rinpoche so he can do anything he likes".

So wrong. One should think “well, he's Trijang Rinpoche so he can only do what some greedy NKT eunuch-bureaucrat transvestite as monk allows him to do”, is it?

Quote
Using Dharma to justify such unwise behaviour would be abusing Dharma so I hope that your reference to Mahasiddha Ghantapa is not intended for this purpose.

What about abusing Dharma to ensure the survival of a caste of greedy pseudo-monks afraid of seeing the demise of their corporate NKT after Geshe Kelsang Gyatso passes away?

Otherwise, what precisely is “unwise” with Ghantapa's behavior according to you puritanistic NKT handbook? Or with Buddha's, Vimalakirti's, Virupa's, Saraha's, or Ra




 Please do not close your eyes to this - the purpose of Tantra is not to excuse wrong moral behaviour. Abandoning ordinary appearance doesn't mean 'anything goes'.

I've said everything I need to say on this topic so likely I will not reply to further posts. May all beings swiftly attain enlightenment and may Je Tsongkhapa's pure tradition flourish forevermore.