Author Topic: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith  (Read 17401 times)

Ensapa

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2012, 11:52:10 AM »
Yes this is an interesting post. The Dalai Lama is asking us to check for ourselves whether something is real or false. Perhaps the Dalai is being the ultimate guru to us asking us to examine and find out for ourselves what is the truth and what is false. The Dalai Lama was Dromtonpa who helped Lama Atisha when Lama Atisha made the teachings pure again in Tibet so his lineage of incarnations is impeccable, I have read some of Dalai Lama's books his explanation on the 12 links is so profound, I have to read it over and over again to get more out of that text. Dalai Lama is enlightened no doubt in my mind.

It is fallacious and not logical that HHDL can produce such flawless texts on one side, and poorly written ones on the other, unless he is doing it deliberately to send a message to people to really wake up, or that he is doing this under pressure from a certain party who wishes to have this ban for whatever reason that exists. It does not appear that he is very serious about the ban.

Sometimes, due to certain situations and obstacles enlightened beings have to manifest in a way that is not pleasant for us to bear, but instead of getting disillusioned, we should really just play our parts as students and be diligent in our practice and not give up, and at the same time not hate HHDL because that is not what the protector wants and it contradicts Dharma practice.

Else, why would he slide the teachings on examining the teachings together with the ban? What message is he trying to send to the people but to examine what he says carefully before accepting? From this, nongelug Lamas would automatically draw the conclusion that Dorje Shugden is bad while the Gelug Lamas would automatically draw the conclusion that he is good, of course from investigation.

Throughout the course of history there are many lamas who are not comfortable with Dorje Shugden, so why would their opinions override that of those who is in favor of Dorje Shugden? Shouldnt a more detailed investigation be carried out before such conclusions, based on facts and not based on the preference of a few Lamas alone? Time to think.

kris

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2012, 05:26:55 PM »
This is how I look at it: Buddhism can be considered as a "way of life" (philosophical) or a religion. When you take it as philosophically, it is a "concept", and if you like it, just take it apply it to your daily life. On the other hand, if you want to take it as "religion", then I felt "blind faith" is inevitable.

For example, how can I proof to my friend the karma theory works? I have no power to proof that whatever problems are happening to me now are the cause of my wrong doings in the previous lives. How do I actually prove that Pujas work? The karma theory to me is a "blind faith"...

But I do agree that for beginners, we should not stress too much on blind faith. At least that's how I got attracted to Buddhism. But after studying it a little bit, I will say that certain level of blind faith is required because I don't hv the wisdom and I will need to rely on my Guru...


Positive Change

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 07:26:43 PM »
Thinking about this matter more, it is actually no surprise HHDL rejects so called blind faith. I believe strongly that there is NO so called blind faith. What we deem as blind faith I feel is just a coined term to justify our laziness to contemplate or understand why we "choose" to have faith. We just say we "believe" even though we actually do not or cannot reason with ourself as to why we "believe". Faith is something we have to truly believe in and understand why we do. Nothing "blind" about it!

Here are some interesting points I researched online:

Faith in Buddhism
Faith (P?li: saddh?, Sanskrit: ?raddh?) is an important constituent element of the teachings of the Buddha for all traditions of Buddhism, though the kind and nature of faith changes in the different schools. According to received Pali-Buddhist tradition, some of the first words voiced by the Buddha after resolving to teach Dharma were, "Wide opened is the door of the Immortal to all who have ears to hear; let them send forth faith [saddha] to meet it."

The treasure, faculty and power of faith
The P?li suttas (scriptures) list faith as one of seven treasures (dhanas), one of five spiritual faculties (indriyas), one of four "streams of merit", and one of the spiritual powers (balas).

By the power of faith, we are able to eliminate the two types of obscurations. Through the power of faith both ontological and phenomenological knowledge arises. It is also by the power of faith that both the common and uncommon siddhis arise.

And I found this most interesting article which I would like to share which I think hits the nail right on the head:

The Dharma of the Buddha is not a religion of blind faith. It is far more demanding than that. It is a religion of experience; of exploration and discovery. The Buddha said that his teaching was "ehipassiko" (is a Pali word that means that instead of blind faith, investigate for yourself and then make up your mind based upon the evidence... which literally means "come and see"). Few of the great teachers in history have made such a bold and confident claim. His teachings not only withstand methodical examination, they demand it.

Because of this, the role of the faith faculty in Buddhism may be difficult to grasp. We should clarify that by "faith" I mean the enlightenment factor and spiritual faculty of "saddha." This is often translated "confidence" or "conviction" and both of these words are very good, but I still prefer the straightforward "faith" precisely because it is a loaded word which challenges us to deal with the implications.

Faith is a key factor in the list of wholesome states. It is one of the uplifting enlightenment factors, together with the related states of joy and energy. It is also one of the spiritual faculties, to be balanced with discriminating wisdom. Without wisdom, faith becomes superstition just as without faith wisdom is only a low cunning which justifies the defilements.

If I might make a purely personal observation, having lived in one kind of practice situation or another for twenty years and been involved in teaching others for the last few, I can't help noticing that some meditators make great progress quickly and some struggle for years with little or no results. I've been putting some serious thought into what might be the common factor which determines the difference, and it seems to me that the strength or weakness of the faith faculty is perhaps the one key element.

The question naturally arises, "faith in what exactly?" I would like to suggest three things we ought to have faith in. Looking at this question strictly from the practical viewpoint of progress in meditation, the yogi must first of all have faith in the practice. Without this confidence, you will get nowhere. In an actual retreat situation this also implies faith in the teacher and his instructions. If you can't feel complete confidence in the teacher, then find another teacher. You won't get anywhere if you question the meditation instructions all the time. For the duration of the retreat, just surrender and do it.

It shouldn't need to be pointed out that faith in the teacher is not guru worship, which has no place in Theravada Buddhism. Faith here is not a helpless dependence on another, nor is a blind belief that the teacher is flawless. It is, or ought to be, a feeling of trust and confidence in the Dhamma presented by the teacher, as something valuable and worth heeding. During a practice session, it should be the courage and discipline to follow the instructions instead of the whisperings of monkey mind.

The second thing that the Buddhist must have faith in to succeed is the Third Noble Truth, that there IS an end to suffering. This is, I think, the only metaphysical belief that is absolutely essential. Indeed, it may very well be the only one that is not actually a hindrance. It is not something susceptible to logical proof, only to the confirmation of direct realization. Before this point, you can only have faith that it is there to be found. If you don't believe this, then you are not doing meditation in the Buddhist sense at all, at least not Vipassana, but only self-psychotherapy. There is no point to speculation about what the end of suffering implies, it can't be arrived at by reason anyway. And until you actually glimpse it for yourself, you have to go on faith.

The third and final element of essential faith is for many of us the most difficult. It is one I struggled with myself for many years. You must somehow find faith in yourself. Many people can happily believe that the Buddha or Ajahn Chah or Krishnamurti was enlightened, but that they could never do it. We need to recognize that this is a form of egoism. Who do you think you are anyway to be the only sentient being in the universe without the seed of Buddhahood?

The reason that this arises is alienation, and the key to overcoming it lies in understanding that. You belong to the universe, you are part of the earth and the stars. In one sense, you are nothing special; you are made of the same elements and mental factors as all other beings and are an integral part of the pattern. Another angle on the same theme is to realize that you are very special indeed, because your innermost mind is absolute light, clear voidness and bliss. Learn never to doubt this and you are more than halfway there.

Besides these three things, there is really nothing else to be believed. In fact a lot of the work of insight meditation is disbelieving. It is very difficult to acquire the knack of seeing the arising phenomena fully and honestly without imposing an imaginary matrix of mental proliferation. In the depths of meditation, you must be ruthlessly honest and radically skeptical.

But this skepticism is far more profound and cuts far deeper than the niggling cynicism that usually passes for the word. It is not the chattering of doubt, which is one of the defilements, but the bold clarity of direct seeing, from which alone can arise the quality of Knowledge and Vision of Things as They Are. May we all find the faith to be so radically skeptical.

Ensapa

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 08:58:36 PM »
I found this text on the Buddha talking about how one should have faith in the Dharma and in the Buddha and I feel this applies very much to our teacher and to ourselves as well with regards to faith:

Quote
II
The second enlightenment factor is dhammavicaya, keen investigation of the Dhamma. It is the sharp analytical knowledge of understanding the true nature of all constituent things animate or inanimate, human or divine. It is seeing things as they really are; seeing things in their proper perspective. It is the analysis of all component things into their fundamental elements, right down to their ultimates. Through keen investigation one understands that all compounded things pass through the inconceivably rapid moments of uppada, thiti, and bhanga, or of arising, reaching a peak, and ceasing, just as a river in flood sweeps to a climax and fades away. The whole universe is constantly changing, not remaining the same for two consecutive moments. All things in fact are subjected to causes, conditions, and effects (hetu, paccaya, and phala). Systematic reflection (yoniso manasikara) comes naturally through right mindfulness, and it urges one to discriminate, to reason and investigate. Shallow thinking, unsystematic investigation (ayoniso manasikara) makes men muddle-headed; and then they fail to investigate the nature of things. Such people cannot see cause and effect, seed and fruit, the rise and fall of compounded things. Says the Buddha: "This doctrine is for the wise and not for the unwise."[9]

Buddhism is free from compulsion and coercion and does not demand of the follower blind faith. At the very outset the skeptic will be pleased to hear of its call for investigation. Buddhism from beginning to end is open to all those who have eyes to see and minds to understand. The Buddha never endeavored to wring out of his followers blind and submissive faith in him and his teaching. He tutors his disciples in the ways of discrimination and intelligent inquiry. To the inquiring Kalamas the Buddha answered: "Right is it to doubt, right is it to question what is doubtful and what is not clear. In a doubtful matter wavering does arise."

We find this dialogue between the Master and his disciples:

[The Buddha:] "If, now knowing this and perceiving this, would you say: 'We honor our Master and through respect for him we respect what he teaches?'"

"Nay, Lord."

"That which you affirm, O disciples, is it not only that which you yourselves have recognized, seen and grasped?"

"Yes, Lord."

— MN 38

And in conformity with this thoroughly correct attitude of true inquiry the philosophers of later times observed: "As the wise test the purity of gold by burning, cutting and examining it by means of a piece of touchstone, so should you accept my words after examining them and not merely out of regard and reverence for me."[10] Thus blind belief is condemned in the analytic teaching (vibhajjavada) of the Buddha. The truth of the dhamma can be grasped only through calm concentrative thought and insight (samatha and vipassana) and never through blind faith. One who goes in quest of truth is never satisfied with surface knowledge. He wants to delve deep and see what is beneath. That is the sort of search encouraged in Buddhism. That type of search yields right understanding.

We read in the texts the following story: On one occasion Upali, a fervent follower of Nigantha Nathaputta, the Jain, visited the Buddha, thoughtfully listened to the dhamma, gained saddha (confidence based on knowledge) and forthwith manifested his readiness to become a follower of the Master. Nevertheless the Master said: "Of a truth, Upali, make thorough investigation," and thus discouraged him.

This clearly shows that the Buddha was not keen on converting people to his way of thinking, and to his fold. He did not interfere with another man's freedom of thought; for freedom of thought is the birthright of every individual. It is wrong to force someone out of the way of life which accords with his outlook and character, spiritual inclinations and tendencies; compulsion in every form is bad. It is coercion of the blackest kind to make a man gulp down beliefs for which he has no relish. Such forced feeding cannot be good for anybody, anywhere.

He that cultivates dhammavicaya, investigation of the dhamma, focuses his mind on the five aggregates of grasping, the pañcupadanakkhandha, and endeavors to realize the rise and fall or the arising and passing away (udaya-vaya) of this conglomeration of bare forces (suddha sankhara puñja), this conflux of mind and matter (nama-rupa santati). It is only when he fully realizes the evanescent nature of his own mind and body that he experiences happiness, joyous anticipation. Therefore, it is said:


Yato yato sammasati  —  khandhanam udayabbayam
Labhati piti pamojjam  —  amatam tam vijanatam
Whenever he reflects on the rise and fall of the aggregates, he experiences unalloyed joy and happiness. To the discerning one that (reflection) is deathless, Nibbana.


Faith in Buddhism comes through study and understanding, and is never without any basis at all. This is the reason why we need to do a lot of investigations and study in order for our faith in the Buddha, Dharma and our Guru, to well up, and from there apply them to our daily lives.

dsiluvu

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2012, 12:46:29 PM »
If we were to analyse thoroughly and logically, we cannot find any solid reason to support HH Dalai Lama’s claims about Dorje Shugden! We can refute point by point to prove HH Dalai Lama is wrong. It is impossible that HH Dalai Lama, who is an emanation of Chenrezig, fully enlightened and omniscient to make a mistake about Dorje Shugden.  Anti-Shugdenites have been blindly adhering to the ban on Dorje Shugden without even questioning the validity or grounds for its enforcement.  Has it not occurred to them that the ban was merely for a bigger purpose and not to be taken literally?

For most people... without proper advice from their Gurus... to the norm... this is CRAZY! His Holiness is a wolf in sheeps clothing, a fake etc etc etc... but if you have someone explaining things to you, making you go back and forth to analyse, see, listen and check...and based on experience can share with you knowledge... then I would say YES you are fortunate to have the positive perspective of it all.

I am fortunate to have my Guru explain... I do not particularly know His Holiness but you know from what I see and what I am experiencing, He is a genuine Bodhisattva. Simple... NO ONE is that stupid to RISK their entire reputation, work and effort, sponsors etc etc for saying a bunch of stuff that would cause so much fraction and hope that the world would not NOTICE? No leader is that silly if you do not believe His Holiness is Bodhisattva. NO WAY... even I am not that stupid, and I am, what more a spiritual LEADER. That is enough logic for me to conclude there must be a FAR deeper meaning behind all this controversial chaos.  It is just too obvious.... for one... because of this BAN... we all know, we have ourselves have actually pushed ourselves to talk and share about Dorje Shugden. We're not doing it so hard core with the "LEGAL BUDDHAS" lol... well would we being promoting Dorje Shugden so much if every thing was fine and dandy?
Probably NOT... Hence I have faith in My GUru, My Protector Dorje Shugden and His Holiness the Dalai Lama.




shugdenprotect

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2012, 04:59:28 PM »
Hi Big Uncle, I completely agree with you about the importance of a Guru in developing our faith in the Dharma to persevere in our practice of it. In addition to the importance of a Guru to navigate our train of comprehension, debating also contributes to our deeper contemplation, understanding and realization. A powerful example of the benefit of debate to create greater understanding of the Dharma is this forum where people from all walks of life gather in constructive debate and learning. Thus, I see the reliance on a Guru and the proactive engagement in debate as a complimentary method aligned to the notion: let the outer Buddha (our Guru) bring forth our inner Buddha (our own ability to contemplate and engage in debate).

Ensapa made a good point about HHDL’s followers being selective in their obedience to His advice. Selective is very dangerous because it is not outright disregard that can be easily identified. Selectiveness can be subtle and a form of playing safe, where one cannot conclude to be “good” or “bad”. Selectiveness stems from laziness, which stems from selfishness. Our selectiveness in Dharma practice shows our lack of sincerity because convenience and laziness to research deeper has greater priority.

Aurore brought up the contradictions in the actions of HHDL. It seems impossible that the enlightened Dalai Lama can cause a contradiction as it is clearly stated in the Lamrim that there is no contradiction is any of Lord Buddha’s teachings. So, perhaps HHDL is being our mirror. HH’s stand on Dorje Shugden could be a zoom-in illustration of the way our minds operate. In seeing the ridiculousness of our own minds reflected in the Dorje Shugden controversy, we may be prompted to realize the urgent need to transform.

Ps: Thank you Positive Change for the beautiful article about faith!

Ensapa

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2012, 08:35:18 AM »
Hi Big Uncle, I completely agree with you about the importance of a Guru in developing our faith in the Dharma to persevere in our practice of it. In addition to the importance of a Guru to navigate our train of comprehension, debating also contributes to our deeper contemplation, understanding and realization. A powerful example of the benefit of debate to create greater understanding of the Dharma is this forum where people from all walks of life gather in constructive debate and learning. Thus, I see the reliance on a Guru and the proactive engagement in debate as a complimentary method aligned to the notion: let the outer Buddha (our Guru) bring forth our inner Buddha (our own ability to contemplate and engage in debate).

Ensapa made a good point about HHDL’s followers being selective in their obedience to His advice. Selective is very dangerous because it is not outright disregard that can be easily identified. Selectiveness can be subtle and a form of playing safe, where one cannot conclude to be “good” or “bad”. Selectiveness stems from laziness, which stems from selfishness. Our selectiveness in Dharma practice shows our lack of sincerity because convenience and laziness to research deeper has greater priority.

Aurore brought up the contradictions in the actions of HHDL. It seems impossible that the enlightened Dalai Lama can cause a contradiction as it is clearly stated in the Lamrim that there is no contradiction is any of Lord Buddha’s teachings. So, perhaps HHDL is being our mirror. HH’s stand on Dorje Shugden could be a zoom-in illustration of the way our minds operate. In seeing the ridiculousness of our own minds reflected in the Dorje Shugden controversy, we may be prompted to realize the urgent need to transform.

Ps: Thank you Positive Change for the beautiful article about faith!

Selectiveness is just another form of hiding the ego and wanting to be within the comfort zone as opposed to getting rid of the ego. It is just another way of saying that our Guru is wrong and that he is giving us instructions that we think wont benefit us. We are also directly being resistant to the Guru's advice which is the main cause for him to pass away faster. HHDL's ban has brought up these issues to light, and now it is really up to the Tibetans and the CTA to do something about it before HHDL reaches 90, where he will decide whether or not he wants to come back to the CTA or he would go to China instead as China is showing more and more respect to the 11th Panchen Lama and his daughter. That way, he can take care of the Tibetans in China more effectively compared to him being Dharamsala. Does the CTA want that?

The ban has brought up many issues, other than the selectiveness issue. It has also brought up the well hidden fact of sectarianism and jealousy of the other lineages against Gelug and this is expressed by their disapproval of Dorje Shugden right after the ban. They are unable to criticize Gelug directly, so they do it indirectly by criticizing the unique Dharma protector of the Gelug tradition. It would be the same as them saying that Gelug is bad. What does it mean when they say that "we should not take teachings even from Lamas tainted by Dorje Shugden?" All the Gelug lamas of thi?s generation including the Dalai Lama is "tainted" by Dorje Shugden. So what are they really trying to get at?

No matter how it is, if we consider ourselves as Buddhist, we should always base our faith on logic and reason and study. There is no room for blind faith, where there is only belief that is not backed up by logic, reasoning or study. People who follow the ban blindly is a very good example of blind faith as when you ask them why is Dorje Shugden bad, they are unable to explain well when you present proof to them that Dorje Shugden is not really a spirit and resort to saying that the Dalai Lama cant be wrong. HHDL cannot be wrong, but at the same time, why is it that they cannot provide a logical explanation why and go back to "Because HHDL says so?"

lotus1

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2013, 01:59:59 AM »
From day one, the Dalai Lama has been contradictory in regards to anything related to Dorje Shugden.

He preaches world peace but creates disharmony within DS practitioners and non-practitioners.

He rejects blind faith and believe in the logic of reasoning and contemplation, but expects practitioners to give up DS practice without any solid proof and reasons.

He is supposed to be the Buddha of Compassion who can subdue any evil spirit and have control over his death, yet he is worried about his life being shorten by DS practitioners.

He accepts all religion and other people's faith, yet he does not allow those who propitiates DS to attend his teachings.

The list goes on. HHDL is being contradictory to the point that it doesn't make any sense unless it's for a bigger purpose.


I just read on an article that listed all the contradictions that HH Dalai Lama said in his public statements throughout the years. Please read on : http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/contradiction-in-the-dalai-lamas-public-statements/

Some of the points that I gathered are :
1.     HHDL claimed that he had not forced anyone to give up Dorje Shugden’s practices but merely told him or her the logic and reason behind abandoning it. However, in 2008, he fully support the Dorje Shugden monks be expelled from the monastery. He is actually enforcing the ban and said that it is wrong for not following his advice.

2.     He said that he began this BAN to continue the Fifth Dalai Lama’s legacy but in fact the Fifth was a practitioners of Dorje Shugden. (see http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/spiritual-lineage/the-time-of-the-great-fifth/)

3.     The Dorje Shugden practitioners are labeled as “terrorist” and enemies that closed to PRC by Samdhong Rinpoche.

4.     HHDL said Dorje Shugden is a spirit but he is consulting worldly spirits via the state oracle who takes trance of Nechung, Pehar and also Gadong, as well as showing reverence to the unenlightened worldly gods and spirits of the Hindu pantheon.

5.     If the HHDL office has concrete proof to backup their claims on Dorje Shugden, why is it the HHDL office until today still remain silence to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s questions that challenge this ban?

6.     As the Vajrayana Buddhism stresses Guru Devotion, why HHDL said his own teachers such as Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and the old lineage masters were wrong? If his teachers are all wrong, does that mean all the other teachings that HHDL received are wrong too? 

7.     If the teaching on Dorje Shugden is wrong, why would HHDL give an exception to the current reincarnation of Trijang Rinpoche to continue Dorje Shugden practice?

8.     Representatives of HHDL claim that no discrimination of Shugden practitioners within the community but from videos we can clearly see that Shugden practitioners have been ostracized from their own monastery, community and family members. In addition, anti-shugden practitioners stoned a Dorje Shugden monastery.

9.     Why is it that HHDL shift in tone and message on Dorje Shugden matters throughout the years, instead of being consistent on it if it is a truth ?

 

gbds3jewels

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2013, 08:06:53 AM »
Totally agree with HHDL here. One of the main reasons I became attracted to Buddhism is because it is not based on blind faith. One is encouraged to question it's logic and to contemplate for oneself what dharma really means. It's also an individual learning / path being that there is none set method enforced on all but still everyone can reach the same end goal of enlightenment.

Similar with the ban of Dorje Shugden practice, everyone should question its logic and contemplate for oneself the choice one wishes to take. While HHDL may seems to be forcing the ban, the decision what one believe is still ultimately your free will. Take nothing on blind faith including the Dorje Shugden ban.

xyz_generation

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2013, 01:41:02 PM »
" The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith " If that is the case, why not do some research on Dorje Shugden ?? I don't think  Dorje Shugden is just another blind faith too!!! Please...please check on all the facts and figures on Dorje Shugden and lift the BAN on Dorje Shugden !!!

sandra

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2013, 01:47:52 PM »
From the general point of view, those pro HHDL find difficult to against his instruction but to give up Dorje Shudgen's practice. Perhaps for the reason of Guru devotion, they have to give up the practice. Or some being force to give up the practice.  However, some continue with the practice until today. The facts is they are still a lot more of Dorje Shudgen practitioners since the ban implemented. Can anybody prove the practice caused significant bad effects to HHDL or did Dorje Shudgen create any harm to those practitioners? For the past year, I only can see a lot of disharmony been created among the Buddhism practitioners since the ban in place. Some Dorje Shudgen practitioners being ostracised from the monastery, some being criticized as "terrorists". A lot of negative karma being created in such situation.

The conclusion is majority of the people can not know whether the ban is right or wrong. However, they will just follow the instruction. Time can prove that the ban only bring harm and nothing more. If we are a genuine Buddhism practitioners, we should at peace all the time, respect others and stop creating any disharmony immediately. Let us be a wise Buddhist. 

Manisha Kudo

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2013, 07:10:39 PM »
In "Music Delighting The Ocean of Protectors", Trijang Rinpoche expounded that an enlightened protector like Dorje Shugden can emanate in a worldly form. So, if it is claimed that the Dalai Lama is an enlightened being, a manifestation of Chenrinzig, then why can't he too appear unenlightened to the untrained mind?  ??? Thus, a person of blind faith without prior and continuous investigations will fail to see the absolute truth and be trapped in ignorance and attachment. 

yontenjamyang

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2013, 07:03:01 AM »
It is without doubt that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is Lord Avalokitesvara and for me Lord Dorje Shugden is Manjushri. This for me is not blind faith and is concluded upon investigation.

In the circle of disciples, followers, CTA officials, groupies and what not surrounding His Holiness, there are many people of high capacities and similarly many of middling and low capacities as well. People of medium and low capacities are susceptible to taking things literally and in their enthusiasm to "please" HHDL, will act upon things wrongly. This I believe, HHDL knows clearly and in his compassion uses skillful means to tame.

On the side of Lord Dorje Shugden, similarly there are people of different capacities, because of blind faith believe that HHDL is wrong to impose the ban. They take it literally.

If we look at the situation now, it seems that everything is chaotic and on the surface can be very discouraging.

Hence, we need to be able to discern the situation and what is happening with the help of the Guru and senior students. Personally, if we understand the real situation we can have clarity and can practice with a peace of mind. If we do not have the capacities, for me, then we need to practice and observe the results; both of ourselves and of others. If the result is generally positive, then I think the faith is justified.

Imagine now the HHDL, is surrounded by many who are very deluded about the Protector practice. It is not pretty. Well, the Boddhisattvas vowed to have the worst to be with them in order to tame them. HHDL certainly has a lot of work to do.

Kim Hyun Jae

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2014, 01:47:12 AM »
From the stand point of a free thinker, there is no difference between blind faith or any faith for it does not make any difference to free thinkers.

I would reject blind faith solely on the basis that we need to know what we are going into. Free thinkers are mostly floaters who doesn't know what they really want in their lives and are totally lost most of the time, looking for something to fill their empty heart.

If I were to decide to go on a faith, I would strive to learn it, understand it, comprehend it and try to incorporate the teachings into my life to see if it works and it solves my inner issues of being empty.


dsiluvu

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Re: The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2014, 05:36:59 AM »
This is how I look at it: Buddhism can be considered as a "way of life" (philosophical) or a religion. When you take it as philosophically, it is a "concept", and if you like it, just take it apply it to your daily life. On the other hand, if you want to take it as "religion", then I felt "blind faith" is inevitable.

For example, how can I proof to my friend the karma theory works? I have no power to proof that whatever problems are happening to me now are the cause of my wrong doings in the previous lives. How do I actually prove that Pujas work? The karma theory to me is a "blind faith"...

But I do agree that for beginners, we should not stress too much on blind faith. At least that's how I got attracted to Buddhism. But after studying it a little bit, I will say that certain level of blind faith is required because I don't hv the wisdom and I will need to rely on my Guru...


Hahaha... Kris... interesting point you brought up... how to proof to a friend that there is Karma... very easy... "Push him" and see what He/She does to you... there will definitely be a reaction... that is your first evidence to him that every action has an equal reaction back. Then ask your friend to think about certain things or decisions he/she has made in his/her life that has caused "happiness" / "sadness" / "regrets". Those are all evidence of immediate examples for cause and effect and karma. Then ask your friend to go back to the time when he/she was a young boy/girl and what was the things that they are attracted to or if they have a certain talent like art, sports they like just naturally is also another good example of showing the "continuity" of the mind.

So for example if he know how to paint now without anyone really forcing him to learn and it is a naturally instinct and passion to paint, he must have painted before in his previous life otherwise how did he just pick it up naturally. And you can compare with some of the things he does not like and has to learn this life and some things he likes and can do very naturally. There's also tons of videos out there about past life regretions and reincarnation which you can also show your friends. This part is all LOGIC, realised and taught by Lord Buddha some 2500 years ago and people are discovering this truth more and more.

As for blind faith... I tend to disagree with Kris because how I started Buddhism and was attracted to it is strictly because of pure knowledge that is logical and made sense to me. It felt that Buddhism had all the answers I doubt and question in life. So from there, conviction came when the teachings were applied and made sense and tested and worked, then came the faith in the Guru/Teacher and it became real faith and devotion to a point you trust completely and surrender your ego and let go of questioning. It is no longer Blind cos you've checked yourself and your spiritual Guide out. So nothing is randomly decided, if there was an automatic attraction to the particular Guru it can also be explained through karmic affinity, hence there is no "blind-faith".

So for the Dalai Lama to say we should not have "blind-faith"... He is right, it is TRUE! Check things out, check out all teachings and teachers, even HHDL before one jumps in to a "blind-faith" band wagon and just follow like sheeps... so DL is also asking people to check Him out don't you think so. Maybe DL is encouraging people  to start THINKING deeper and more?