Author Topic: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners  (Read 7757 times)

Lineageholder

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The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« on: January 19, 2011, 09:32:05 AM »
(Translated from Tibetan which was posted in http://tibet.net/tb/2011/01/14)

His Holiness the Dalai Lama has been kind to deliver his second day teaching at Varanasi.

14-01-2011

When I engage spiritually with Chinese Dharma friends, I say that we, as junior students, do pay respect. Likewise, if there are Dholgya (Shugden) worshipers among the public, please don’t come to [my] empowerment. Whether it is in Tibet, or in exile, or in Himalayan regions, all the heads of Tibetan has corrected advantage and disadvantage; and found reasons in my suggestions on top of their own thought. Most are very good, and it is not necessary for me to speak particularly. Therefore, although it is not necessary always to speak, some say that the Dalai Lama said nothing about Dholgyal although I met him, and that perhaps it might be rumors.

I worshiped Gyalpo Shugden. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabhongkha have worshiped. Under this influence I worshiped too. At the beginning of 1970 I felt ambivalent towards it. Later when I examined from all angels, this proved to be wrong. I then gave up the worship.  Being thoroughly researched, [I found that] the biography of the fifth Dalai Lama has written about Gyalpo Shugden. The reason of the ban I imposed on it is that I found reasons and significant in the course of my examination.

Since I, as an ordinary body of Amdho, got the name of fourteen Dalai Lama, I ought to follow the steps of my predecessors.  It is my responsibility to serve the Rigme teachings of Tibet. You must fully know the matter. If you, by knowing it, turn back, it is your freedom. If with one sided information you wonder how the Dalai Lama is, it is not right if I don’t prove once.  Examine the history. Although many monasteries in Tibet have never worshipped Dholgyal before, they embraced the worship, and result into developments of misfortune.

Most important, you, who came from Tibet, understood these matters! Meanwhile after I imposed ban on it, many Tibetans in Tibet followed properly. As a result, all different monasteries and sects are in harmony and law-abiding, and the monasteries begun to have harmony with their patrons – many has told me. Therefore all of you here must bear in mind and be careful.

Heartspoon

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2011, 06:50:14 AM »
Nowadays, some of HH the Dalai Lama's followers have their own special pride. They claim that HH the Dalai Lama is so superior that they themselves should be considered superior.

HH the Dalai Lama, it is true, is very great, but it does not necessarily follow that one who claims to be among His followers is also great. The greatness of a master depends upon his realization. Blind allegiance to a master cannot make a practitioner superior.

It is common for them to look down on the practitioners of Dorje Shugden, thinking of them
as ignorant practitioners whose practice is not supported by right understanding of the Dharma's true meaning.

Some of them claim that the Dorje Shugden practitioners don't belong anymore to their Gelugpa tradition. Others, go as far as claiming that the Dorje Shugden practitioners are not to be considered as Dharma followers.

These are attitudes commonly found among Tibetan Buddhist monks and lay people.
They may be common attitudes, but they are not Buddhist attitudes.

One who despises another Buddhist school despises the Buddha. He impairs the transmission of the Dharma. The presence of the Dharma is jeopardized by such an attitude, and one becomes cut off from its transmission. This is so because one's refuge vows are based upon reliance on the Enlightened One, His Teachings, and the Holy Community. If one rejects Dharma one breaks one's refuge vow and thereby becomes cut off from the Dharma. By rejecting this Dharma that is the only door to happiness for beings and oneself, one accumulates inexhaustible sin.

Therefore, the Buddha taught that one should also not despise the Dharma of non-Buddhists for it is their source of happiness and benefit. One should not despise or harbour contempt for the doctrines of the Hindus, Christians, or other non-Buddhist religions because this attitude of attachment to one's own side while rejecting the possibility of differences is harmful to one's own spiritual career.

Those people who harbour voiced or unvoiced contempt for the teachings and the lineage of other schools incur great sin and terrible consequences. Worst of all, this attitude is as unnecessary as it is harmful.

One whose Dharma career is tainted by narrow-mindedness and attachment to one's own interests while rejecting those of others will never overcome the many obstacles to the attainment of wisdom or insight.

Sectarianism turns the pure Dharma into poison. Through it, one accumulates great sin. In this life one will be frustrated in one's own Dharma efforts. Upon death, one will fall into hell as swiftly as an arrow shot from a bow. These are the consequences of spending a lifetime in rejecting others' spiritual efforts on such narrow-minded grounds.

Therefore be mindful not to indulge in this attitude that brings so much unsought harm upon yourself. Do not create obstacles to your own Dharma. Strive instead for pure faith and maintain that faith in all manifestations of the Three Jewels, no matter whether they are represented in one school of Tibetan Buddhism or in another. Painstakingly nurture your refuge vows and pure faith and thereby grow truly in the Dharma.

Heartspoon

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2011, 06:51:49 AM »
Buddha taught that one should  not despise the Dharma of non-Buddhists for it is their source of happiness and benefit. One should not despise or harbour contempt for the doctrines of the Hindus, Christians, or other non-Buddhist religions because this attitude of attachment to one's own side while rejecting the possibility of differences is harmful to one's own spiritual career.

One whose Dharma career is tainted by narrow-mindedness and attachment to one's own interests while rejecting those of others will never overcome the many obstacles to the attainment of wisdom or insight.

Heartspoon

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 06:54:50 AM »
Does one serve the Rigme teachings by imposing a ban on the Dorje Shugden worshipers ?

Heartspoon

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 06:59:39 AM »
Why wouldn't it be possible for HH the Dalai Lama to follow the steps of his predecessors while remaining a Dharma follower ?

Heartspoon

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 09:18:32 AM »
(Translated from Tibetan which was posted in http://tibet.net/tb/2011/01/14)

His Holiness the Dalai Lama has been kind to deliver his second day teaching at Varanasi.

14-01-2011

When I engage spiritually with Chinese Dharma friends, I say that we, as junior students, do pay respect. Likewise, if there are Dholgya (Shugden) worshipers among the public, please don’t come to [my] empowerment. Whether it is in Tibet, or in exile, or in Himalayan regions, all the heads of Tibetan has corrected advantage and disadvantage; and found reasons in my suggestions on top of their own thought. Most are very good, and it is not necessary for me to speak particularly. Therefore, although it is not necessary always to speak, some say that the Dalai Lama said nothing about Dholgyal although I met him, and that perhaps it might be rumors.

I worshiped Gyalpo Shugden. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabhongkha have worshiped. Under this influence I worshiped too. At the beginning of 1970 I felt ambivalent towards it. Later when I examined from all angels, this proved to be wrong. I then gave up the worship.  Being thoroughly researched, [I found that] the biography of the fifth Dalai Lama has written about Gyalpo Shugden. The reason of the ban I imposed on it is that I found reasons and significant in the course of my examination.

Since I, as an ordinary body of Amdho, got the name of fourteen Dalai Lama, I ought to follow the steps of my predecessors.  It is my responsibility to serve the Rigme teachings of Tibet. You must fully know the matter. If you, by knowing it, turn back, it is your freedom. If with one sided information you wonder how the Dalai Lama is, it is not right if I don’t prove once.  Examine the history. Although many monasteries in Tibet have never worshipped Dholgyal before, they embraced the worship, and result into developments of misfortune.

Most important, you, who came from Tibet, understood these matters! Meanwhile after I imposed ban on it, many Tibetans in Tibet followed properly. As a result, all different monasteries and sects are in harmony and law-abiding, and the monasteries begun to have harmony with their patrons – many has told me. Therefore all of you here must bear in mind and be careful.


Dharma is Dharma.
This isn't Dharma...

Lineageholder

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 01:46:41 PM »
Does one serve the Rigme teachings by imposing a ban on the Dorje Shugden worshipers ?

That's the point, really.  This shows the hypocrisy.  How is one non-sectarian by imposing a sectarian ban?

Answers on a postcard, please.  ;D

Lineageholder

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 01:47:43 PM »
Dear Heartspoon,

Thanks for addressing this, the elephant in the room was ignored by everyone else.

beggar

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 04:20:45 PM »
Buddha taught that one should  not despise the Dharma of non-Buddhists for it is their source of happiness and benefit. One should not despise or harbour contempt for the doctrines of the Hindus, Christians, or other non-Buddhist religions because this attitude of attachment to one's own side while rejecting the possibility of differences is harmful to one's own spiritual career.

One whose Dharma career is tainted by narrow-mindedness and attachment to one's own interests while rejecting those of others will never overcome the many obstacles to the attainment of wisdom or insight.

I do believe that there are reasons that the Dalai Lama has imposed the ban (let's not go into this big debate again - we are clear who does believe this and who doesn't so can we agree to disagree). However, I do also think that there is a marked difference between one imposing the ban and the way in which the ban has been carried out by followers of the Dalai Lama which has come out in nothing else than hatred and intolerance.

Wouldn't it be enough to just say, "okay, you practice Dorje Shugden, I don't, we agree to disagree but I still respect your practices and I request you to please respect my practices." Just as what Heartspoon says about - despising the doctrine or any religion, Buddhist or not, brings only harm to ourselves and keeps us forever stuck in the bind of duality: "I am right, he is wrong".

On a closer-to-home, relative level, it also harms the very person that they are supposed to be "defending" and "supporting" - the dalai lama. People look upon their actions and can see clearly what is happening. They will think, "This is what your lama teaches you to do? This is how Buddhists act to other Buddhists? Shame!"

Gabby Potter

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 03:32:26 PM »
On the outer level, it may look like His Holiness is rejecting Dorje Shugden but by Him doing this, it will make Dorje Shugdne's practise spread even further and wider because the issue has been brought into the limelight especially recently.

Matibhadra

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 04:20:17 PM »
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On the outer level, it may look like His Holiness is rejecting Dorje Shugden but by Him doing this, it will make Dorje Shugdne's practise spread even further and wider

Even if such were the intended consequence of the evil dalie' s witch-hunt, having such intention would only make of him an unscrupulous religionist, capable of inflicting every suffering on ordinary people just for the sake of the expansion of a religious brand.

To you the expansion of your religious brand justifies every crime, which makes of you the typical religionist criminal, together with your evil dalie.

You are infected with the traitorous false flag ideology, which favors an attack on one's own group in order to achieve some self-propagandistic goal.

fruven

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2015, 12:20:01 AM »
Quote
On the outer level, it may look like His Holiness is rejecting Dorje Shugden but by Him doing this, it will make Dorje Shugdne's practise spread even further and wider

Even if such were the intended consequence of the evil dalie' s witch-hunt, having such intention would only make of him an unscrupulous religionist, capable of inflicting every suffering on ordinary people just for the sake of the expansion of a religious brand.

To you the expansion of your religious brand justifies every crime, which makes of you the typical religionist criminal, together with your evil dalie.

You are infected with the traitorous false flag ideology, which favors an attack on one's own group in order to achieve some self-propagandistic goal.

And you're? Without any propaganda?

eyesoftara

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2015, 05:17:08 AM »
Quote
On the outer level, it may look like His Holiness is rejecting Dorje Shugden but by Him doing this, it will make Dorje Shugdne's practise spread even further and wider

Even if such were the intended consequence of the evil dalie' s witch-hunt, having such intention would only make of him an unscrupulous religionist, capable of inflicting every suffering on ordinary people just for the sake of the expansion of a religious brand.

To you the expansion of your religious brand justifies every crime, which makes of you the typical religionist criminal, together with your evil dalie.

You are infected with the traitorous false flag ideology, which favors an attack on one's own group in order to achieve some self-propagandistic goal.

It is not advisable since we are not Omniscient to make conclusions in an extreme manner especially of the Dalai Lama (or any Lamas). Not doubt His actions may have caused much suffering but we must know that no results can be experience if one has not created the causes for it. I am not saying the Dalai Lama's actions can be easily understood but He did do a lot for Buddhism.

I for one wants the ban to be lifted but we must do it without disrespect. Lets' practice the Middle Way as taught by the Buddha.

Matibhadra

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Re: The Dalai Lama's latest rejection of Shugden practitioners
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2015, 01:23:34 PM »
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It is not advisable since we are not Omniscient to make conclusions in an extreme manner especially of the Dalai Lama (or any Lamas).

There is no “extreme” conclusion in referring to a brutal criminal as such. But only out of an extremist fanatical view one would call such a criminal a “Lama”. You are guilty of the very extremism you maliciously ascribe to others.

Quote
Not doubt His actions may have caused much suffering but we must know that no results can be experience if one has not created the causes for it.

Then, since the victims of terrorist attacks such as the 9/11 have also created the causes for it, it follows that the terrorists perpetrating such attacks were also high Lamas and Chenrezig, right? Indeed, both the evil dalie and those terrorists perform the same function, which is to bring to fruition the evil karma of others.

Also, according to your perverted logic, now the function of Chenrezig is to cause suffering to others, as you have just agreed that the evil dalie does, rather than alleviating it.

Besides, you are cynically trying to shift to the victims the blame for the suffering inflicted on them by the perpetrator. This is the hallmark of the thought of a criminal. Your devotion to the evil dalie has corrupted your mind, to the point that now you think like any cold, professional criminal. 

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I am not saying the Dalai Lama's actions can be easily understood

What you want to say is that there is no need to understand the actions of the evil dalie, because as your cult fetish you see him as the very definition of goodness, whatever he does. Your blind, extremist devotion to the criminal cult leader made you lose every sense of human decency.

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but He did do a lot for Buddhism.

The evil entity did and keeps doing a lot to destroy Buddhism, the result and evidence being “Buddhists” like you, people capable of justifying criminality as some kind of “divine action”, and criminals as “Omniscient Lamas”.

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I for one wants the ban to be lifted but we must do it without disrespect.

You show devotional respect to a criminal and to his crimes, which shows that you are part of the problem, not of the solution. The ban exists because of people like you.

Quote
Lets' practice the Middle Way as taught by the Buddha.

Perpetrate any crime and then blame the victim. This is the “Middle Way” taught by your evil cult leader, not by the Buddha.