Author Topic: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message  (Read 9426 times)

vajratruth

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'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« on: January 10, 2015, 09:16:10 PM »
When the Dalai Lama imposed the Dorje Shugden ban, not only did he breach just about every freedom of religion provision in the Constitutions of real democratic countries and the UN Charter, but he also forced Shugden Buddhists into a spiritual suicide.

The basis of Buddhism is about the keeping of vows - Refuge Vows, Bodhisattva Vows, and Tantric Vows and it is in the keeping of the vows that a practitioner progresses on his training and eventually gains liberation. Conversely, the breaking of vows creates the opposite effect with the most serious consequences arising from breaking vows under the Fourteen Root Downfalls.

A ‘root downfall’ is so termed because such a fault ruptures our connection with the sacred world of the Vajrayana, into which initiation permitted us to enter. It makes spiritual practice impossible and thus utterly severs the root of any accomplishment. A ‘branch downfall’, by contrast, is a less severe fault, which merely delays such accomplishment." http://www.tricycle.com/blog/vidyadhara-vow-reading-small-print-vajrayana . It is further understood that the breaking of a Root Downfall creates the causes for the practitioners to take rebirth in a 'Vajra Hell'.

When the Dalai Lama and his absurd 'government' the CTA insisted that Shugden Buddhists break their vows and commitments to their gurus, they do not care if anyone is bound by such vows or similar, the breaking of which results in terrible rebirth. To say as the Dalai Lama has on many occasions, that the breaking of vows has no negative consequences, is to make a joke out of taking the vows to begin with. One of the reasons why higher practices are treated as secret, is so that the guru will only give it to students who have proven to be able to keep their commitments. Vows is central to our practice and even if we were to disregard the spiritual aspect, at the most ordinary and mundane level, keeping promises is a crucial trait of a person with integrity.

So why does the Dalai Lama force Buddhists into the opposite direction? And what Bodhisattva would commit a person to Vajra Hell?

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/theological-implications-of-the-dalai-lamas-religious-ban/

Gabby Potter

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 09:38:46 PM »
Breaking our commitment is when we don't do what we have promised our Guru to do, it's not by what others say about your Guru. For example, we don't stop our practise, even if anyone happen to tell us that our practise is wrong, and that our Guru is bad etc, stuff like this, we just ignore them. We took refuge from our Gurus, not the CTA. If they were a little bit more intelligent, they wouldn't have come out with all those meaningless rules and regulations.

dondrup

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2015, 08:59:09 AM »
It has become increasingly difficult to have any faith in the Dalai Lama or the one who is supposed to be an emanation of Buddha Chenrzig.  An emanation of a Buddha has the same nature of the Buddha.  Buddha Chenrezig will not harm any sentient being but Dalai Lama had inflicted so much pain and suffering on the pitiful sentient beings which by the way includes Dorje Shugden followers. 

It is unbelieveable and impossible that Dalai Lama - if he truly is Buddha Chenrezig - continue to enforce the ban.  The ban had lasted for almost two decades already! The damage done and the sufferings endured by all the Dorje Shugden practitioners since the inception of the ban are beyond words!  How much more suffering do Dalai Lama and CTA want Dorje Shugden followers to suffer? How could "Buddha Cherezig" be so uncompassionate and cruel?

Like Vajratruth just shared, broken sacred samayas with the vajra gurus means the practitioners go straight to the vajra hells upon their death.  Those practitioners who have the dilemmas of having more than two teachers where one teacher practises Dorje Shugden while another doesn't practise Dorje Shugden (because this teacher abides by Dalai Lama's instruction to abandon Dorje Shugden) will be put into a very difficult situation.  Whether this Dorje Shugden practitioner continue to practise or otherwise he will break his samaya with one of his gurus!  There is no way out for these practitioners in this dilemma unless the ban is lifted! Dalai Lama gave the Dorje Shugden follower concerned no choice.  Since he implemented the ban, Dalai Lama had already sent so many sincere Dorje Shugden followers to vajra hell due to their broken samayas.  Sending a sentient being to vajra hell is the worst negative action!  This is really atrocious! This is not even the practice of Buddhism.  Buddhism does not advocate harming others!  A Buddha will not harm any sentient being! 

Seriously, is the Dalai Lama a Buddha?  Dalai Lama's actions do not conform to the acceptable worldly conventions or views expected of a Buddha.  Let just say Dalai Lama is not a Buddha, as a Nobel Peace Laureate, Dalai Lama is the symbol of peace, love and compassion.  So we expect Dalai Lama to exude these qualities of peace, love and compassion.  However, in reality his actions in relation to the Dorje Shugden ban is simply despicable! 

Why is it so difficult for Dalai Lama to give religious freedom to Dorje Shugden practitioners?  Bodhisattvas or Buddhas are concerned with creating the causes of sufferings but Dalai Lama had created so many causes of sufferings for Dorje Shugden followers and himself! Every sentient being wants to be happy and be free from suffering.  Dalai Lama, your ban is depriving them these!  For humanity's sake, return Dorje Shugden practitioners their basic human right to practise what they chose to practise. This human right does not belong to Dalai Lama or CTA.  Maintaining the ban is tantamount to stealing the Dorje Shugden followers' freedom of religious practice; their human rights!  Here we see Dalai Lama had broken the fundamental Buddhist principles of non-stealing!

Can we allow someone like Dalai Lama and CTA continue to break the worldly laws, conventions and Buddhist principles? Can we allow Dalai Lama to continue to destroy Buddhism?

Lift the ban please Dalai Lama! Lift the ban NOW Dalai Lama!




ilikeshugden

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2015, 11:26:11 AM »
It is such a shame that His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who is supposed to be a manifestation of a Buddha himself, would end up condemning his followers to hell for cutting connections with their gurus and breaking their vows. I mean no disrespect to His Holiness but this is really unfortunate. Maybe he has a back up plan to save these people from their fate?

I guess the thing is that you can't follow one person blindly just because he so happens to be a high authority. By doing so, you would hurt yourselves and others. People need to understand that there is such a thing as too far. When a spiritual practice demands that you revoke every essence and loyalty you posses, then it is clear that the spiritual practice is unfit for your needs and would benefit someone else better.

VeronicaSmith

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2015, 02:54:48 PM »
Yes this is very sad indeed because the poor poor monks were forced to not worship Shugden anymore which is very bad because it takes away their right to believe which is very sad and terrible for the monks. Also since they have vows that they had to break to obey the Dalai Lama. We all know that if they break vows they will go to "hell" because that is a spiritual break.

So why would they force them into such a hard place? That is why I respect the Shugden monks that worship in private because they went through so much and still keep their vows and their will to believe. Also it is very sad because the poor monks had to be torn between the Dalai Lama (who they respect so much) and Dorje Shugden. But forcing them to break their vows is forcing them to walk into hell. Why would they do that?

angelica

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2015, 04:25:31 PM »
Guru is very important in our spiritual path. He is the guiding light that lead us out of samsara. If we are not able to be out of samsara yet in this life time, at least we have a better rebirth in our next life to continue our practice.

When Dalai Lama ban the Dorje Shugden practice, this has caused many broke their samaya with their guru. When the relationship broken, the guiding light is gone, the road ahead is unknown. Hope that Dalai Lama will respect the freedom to religion and be very very compassionate to lift the ban.

Blueupali

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 04:52:21 AM »
I think the Dalai Lama is hell bound himself; I don't think people can REALLY go to hell if they follow their true guru's lineage--- if they had initation with a Shugden lama and one that followed the Dalai Lama and broke samaya, well, obviously follow the one that stayed with the Buddha and kept samaya ok.
  Unfortunately, the idea of guru devotion has been very misused by the Dalai Lama; his followers think they have met a guru when they go to his Kalachakra or something because he claims to be giving the empowerment and is so worldly and famous.  But the issue is, these poor people really have no samaya at all they have to keep with the Dalai Lama, because having broken with his gurus and banned a legit practice and caused a bunch of schisms, he is not able to hold or give the samaya vows.
  I am sorry everybody in the west runs around telling each other to keep samaya at the cost of their lives... I think in the case of people really taking it and giving it, it's not necessary to really say that all the time.  It's necessary only when someone like the Dalai Lama uses it to control everyone like robots.

kris

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2015, 09:50:57 AM »
Thank you @vajratruth about the logic. I have not actually thought about it from this angle before, and now that you mention it, it is very logic.

Ultimately, we take refuge from our own guru, and our guru is the kindest person to us because our guru give us the initiation, the teachings etc. Just because a famous lama said otherwise, should we just forget the kindness of our own guru and just throw away all the teachings from our own guru? It does not make sense to me.

In time like this, we need to stand firm on our practice and stay loyal to our guru.

sandra

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2015, 12:51:41 AM »
Thank you for this sharing. It is a good sharing as to create awareness to those Buddhist practitioners whereby they have their vows and commitment with guru. They must know how to weight it and realise no matter what not to forego their practice. The blessings come from guru devotion. Strong guru devotion and faith will lead them firm with their practice or teaching given by their guru. It will not easy to shake by any instruction or advise given by third party.  We should not have two mind. We should know this if we have a guru.

fruven

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2015, 11:26:05 PM »
Thank you for explaining the implications of breaking one's vows when one give up Dorje Shugden practice due to the ban.  For a spiritual practitioner one would not act in ways that would harm the guru-disciple relationship because doing so would result of one getting back the same karma in future. From a secular point of view the ban is politically motivated. In which the ban can take effect also reflects the CTA maturity over the separation between secular matters and spiritual matters, ie CTA allows mixing them together. As others have mentioned many times that outwardly CTA claims to be democratic but we can see it is not such the case.

eyesoftara

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 04:56:56 AM »
That is the reason why we have to really know who our Guru is. If one regard His Holiness as the root Guru we just follow his instructions no matter how "wrong" He is. For Shugdens, it is obvious that we have our own Guru and we just follow the advise of our Guru. If we all do that, there is no problem. Just follow your Guru and make any of conclusions if you are not learned.
This is like a Great lesson in Guru Devotion. And a Great karma detoxification. Go to hell and come up fast perhaps and be on the way to Enlightenment.

Kim Hyun Jae

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 06:50:19 AM »
Can we allow someone like Dalai Lama and CTA continue to break the worldly laws, conventions and Buddhist principles? Can we allow Dalai Lama to continue to destroy Buddhism?

No one can be above the worldly laws of humanity or human rights. All DS practitioners have suffered so much and the situation of the ban further bring unhappiness amongst Buddhists and continue to create factions. There have been vulgar remarks and negative comments made by the pro-Dalai Lama factions on social media and this continues to create negative karma for them. Their utter disrespect and dislikes of DS practitioners were obvious to the world.

I hope the ban be lifted soon for the good of all Buddhists and create harmony.

pinecone

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Re: 'Go To Hell' Is the Dalai Lama's Message
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 02:59:34 PM »
The moment we have decided to take  refuge from our Guru , doubt or uncertainty should not  arise in us.  Putting full trust and faith in one’s Guru is a stepping stone for us to be free from samsara . The role of a guru is similar to our parents, will any father nor mother will like to see his child suffer and lead him to  disaster? One’s faith and  devotion in his Guru should not be sway by listening to another’s criticism or accusations against his Guru. Therefore a clean samaya with our Guru will eventually tie a strong Guru-disciple relationship into the future lives , no amount of circumstances should lead us to break it.