Author Topic: Tibetologists: image of 6th Dalai Lama misunderstood by people  (Read 5110 times)

WisdomBeing

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I wonder if in the future, some people will claim that the 14th Dalai Lama was misunderstood by the people because he didn't actually institute the Dorje Shugden ban. There are people who don't believe the holocaust happened, what more this irrational ban!

Perhaps the difference between the time of the 6th Dalai Lama and now is that we have youtube and websites! So there can be no dispute of what the Dalai Lama said about Dorje Shugden.

Everything is recorded - like karma!



Tibetologists: image of 6th Dalai Lama misunderstood by people
http://english.cntv.cn/2014/04/25/ARTI1398413621752786.shtml

Tibetologists stressed that the real 6th Dalai Lama Tsangyang Gyatso is far from the image of "a master of love songs" fancied and chased by people in recent years.

"From the top of the east mountain rise the silver moon, which is like a maiden that appears in my heart..." This is a popular ballad loved by many Chinese people in recent years, and is known as written by the 6th Dalai Lama Tsangyang Gyatso.

Yet, his identity of "a master of love songs" has been refuted by Tibetologists, Xinhua reported.

"That so-called love song is actually a meditation realm of Tsangyang Gyatso when he practiced Buddhism cultivation," said Bawam, a Tibetologist from the Tibet Academy of Social Sciences, adding that the ballads by Tsangyang Gyatso are in fact lyrics of Buddhism cultivation written according to his practice of Tantric Tibetan Buddhism (or Esoteric Buddhism).

The 6th Dalai Lama Tsangyang Gyatso is a prestigious lama good at writing poems. Born in 1683 at Tawang County at Monyul area in today's Lhoka Prefecture in southern part of Tibet Autonomous Region, Tsangyang Gyatso was escorted to the Potala Palace.

In recent years, there's been a heat in the circle of literature and art about this legendary lama, and the annotation and interpretation of his poems also have got plenty versions.

"In fact, people are far from knowing the real Tsangyang Gyatso and we need to unveil his actual image in history," said Palsang Norbu, the assistant dean of the Tibet Academy of Social Sciences and also a Tibetologist, pointing out that many domestic researchers characterized Tsangyang Gyatso from a historical personage to a literary hero only out of a mindset of seeking novelty.

There are many collections on the market labeled as poems by Tsangyang Gyatso. Some publications said to have collected hundreds of works by Tsangyang Gyatso. Got this, Tibetologist Palsang said there are only 62 works confirmed to be original poems by Tsang Gyatso, and the rest of the "works by Tsangyang Gyatso" allegedly haven't been proved.

He suggested that to get to know about the real life and inner world of the 6th Dalai Lama Tsangyang Gyatso, scholars should not simply rely on other's research findings but need to read original Tibetan documents and historical records about Tsangyang Gyatso and his peers in the same age.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Big Uncle

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Re: Tibetologists: image of 6th Dalai Lama misunderstood by people
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2014, 06:44:03 AM »
I wonder if in the future, some people will claim that the 14th Dalai Lama was misunderstood by the people because he didn't actually institute the Dorje Shugden ban. There are people who don't believe the holocaust happened, what more this irrational ban!

Perhaps the difference between the time of the 6th Dalai Lama and now is that we have youtube and websites! So there can be no dispute of what the Dalai Lama said about Dorje Shugden.

Everything is recorded - like karma!

Excellent thought Wisdom Being! However, I don't think people will doubt whether the 14th Dalai Lama instituted the ban or not but perhaps people would dispute the reasons for the ban. For example, during his time, the 6th Dalai Lama was known to have returned his vows, believed to be a fake Dalai Lama, drunkard, womanizer and a great poet of love songs. However, today we know his poems are incredible expression of his Tantric realizations and the woman he courted are known by many lamas, to be part of his grand plan to father a dynasty not unlike the father-son patriarchs of the Sakya Trizins. The continuity of the father-son tradition of the Sakyas resulted in an extremely stable rulership of the Sakya tradition.

However, it is said that the 6th Dalai Lama's plan failed as people did no understand his vision and the Mongols capture the 6th Dalai Lama, caught one of his consorts and killed her. She was with his baby - which enraged the Mongols who thought that she had polluted the Dalai Lama. In their rage, they cut out the fetus from the stomach of the mother only to find that it was in the shape of a 1000-armed Chenrezig. Not long after, the 6th Dalai Lama in captivity entered meditation and passed into clear light. His subsequent incarnation, the 7th Dalai Lama Kelsang Gyatso grew up to be a reserved pious Gelug monk, who shunned politics and fulfilled the preconceived notions of how a Dalai Lama should act. However, he would never again try to establish a father-son dynasty. This has been interpreted by lamas that Tibet did not have the merits to sustain the glory, power and stability of a father-son Dalai Lama dynasty.

Likewise, people may not understand the Dalai Lamas' reasons for instituting the ban and many may call him names and call him a fake Dalai Lama as well (reminiscent of the 6th Dalai Lama) but we will later find out the reasons for the Dorje Shugden ban and will not be because of worldly power.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 06:49:08 AM by Big Uncle »

DharmaSpace

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Re: Tibetologists: image of 6th Dalai Lama misunderstood by people
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2014, 02:30:41 PM »
Thank you Wisdom Being and Big Uncle for sharing this. Reading what you wrote Big Uncle I feel it is so tragic reading about how the Mongols discovered about the fetus of the 6th Dalai Lama's consort was in the shape of 1000 armed Chenrezig. Hope the Chinese Tibetologist can shed more details about who the 6th Dalai Lama truly is.

If Milarepa can have his songs of realisations I can't see why not the 6th Dalai Lama. Tibetan Buddhism there are so many examples of Lamas and practitioners who are Mahasiddhas and do not conform to set rules and forms. Many people love to be judges of others character and want to judge this person or that person, perhaps the stance we should take it lets give people the time to come to the end of their lives for us to make a conclusion about that person. Other than that everyone is a WIP - work in progress before the end. 

Well after many lifetimes of being a pure monk, Trijang Dorje Chang has taken a consort. He is still spreading Je Tsongkhapa's tradition all over the world, there is no lack of faith from the practitioners who have seen this change by Trijang Rinpoche.


hope rainbow

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Re: Tibetologists: image of 6th Dalai Lama misunderstood by people
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2014, 04:31:36 AM »
The parallel between the 6th DL and the 14th DL is indeed interesting.

What I hope though is that we have enough merit so that our 14th Dalai Lama succeeds in establishing Dorje Shugden as THE Dharma Protector of our times.
Not that Dorje Shugden is not already, because He is, but it all depends upon our existing merit and how we get about to create more merit and conditions for us to connect to Him.
Participating to this website is, I believe, one of the ways to gather the necessary merit and help the Dalai Lama to succeed!

The 6th DL failed, not because "He" failed, I mean, that'd be a ridiculous thought...
No, He failed because the people around in His time did not create the merit nor create the merit and conditions for Tibet to become a kingdom where the ruling would have been in the hands of a dynasty rather than in the hands of a line of reincarnations.
After all, if Tibet had been a kingdom in the more conventional way of it, its present political state may be different.
I just take the examples of Bhutan and Nepal as comparisons...

Will the 14th Dalai Lama fail?
Will we allow for that to happen?

fruven

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Re: Tibetologists: image of 6th Dalai Lama misunderstood by people
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2014, 02:03:26 PM »
The parallel between the 6th DL and the 14th DL is indeed interesting.

What I hope though is that we have enough merit so that our 14th Dalai Lama succeeds in establishing Dorje Shugden as THE Dharma Protector of our times.
Not that Dorje Shugden is not already, because He is, but it all depends upon our existing merit and how we get about to create more merit and conditions for us to connect to Him.
Participating to this website is, I believe, one of the ways to gather the necessary merit and help the Dalai Lama to succeed!

The 6th DL failed, not because "He" failed, I mean, that'd be a ridiculous thought...
No, He failed because the people around in His time did not create the merit nor create the merit and conditions for Tibet to become a kingdom where the ruling would have been in the hands of a dynasty rather than in the hands of a line of reincarnations.
After all, if Tibet had been a kingdom in the more conventional way of it, its present political state may be different.
I just take the examples of Bhutan and Nepal as comparisons...

Will the 14th Dalai Lama fail?
Will we allow for that to happen?

Interesting question you brought. I think this parallels to the question of has the Dharma fail? If we read the Dharma and not practicing it, or if we learn the Dharma without a guru guidance and practice it wrongly, why blame Dharma?

For people with secular view the Dalai Lama is just an ordinary human being who shows faults. Failure is a possibility. The problems of others become his responsibility and it can become a fact that problems that doesn't get solve means his failure as a leader. Is it true or is it false? Or is it we become relying on him so much that we fail to do anything worthwhile. For the Tibetans they follow Dalai Lama to the letter. What about the Mongols?

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Tibetologists: image of 6th Dalai Lama misunderstood by people
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 03:26:12 PM »
The parallel between the 6th DL and the 14th DL is indeed interesting.

What I hope though is that we have enough merit so that our 14th Dalai Lama succeeds in establishing Dorje Shugden as THE Dharma Protector of our times.
Not that Dorje Shugden is not already, because He is, but it all depends upon our existing merit and how we get about to create more merit and conditions for us to connect to Him.
Participating to this website is, I believe, one of the ways to gather the necessary merit and help the Dalai Lama to succeed!

The 6th DL failed, not because "He" failed, I mean, that'd be a ridiculous thought...
No, He failed because the people around in His time did not create the merit nor create the merit and conditions for Tibet to become a kingdom where the ruling would have been in the hands of a dynasty rather than in the hands of a line of reincarnations.
After all, if Tibet had been a kingdom in the more conventional way of it, its present political state may be different.
I just take the examples of Bhutan and Nepal as comparisons...

Will the 14th Dalai Lama fail?
Will we allow for that to happen?

I like what is mentioned here. Definitely whether Dorje Shugden will be the supreme Protector of our time will depend on whether we have enough merits for this to happen.

Dorje Shugden helps us in our Dharma practice by removing the obstacles that are in our way, therefore is the Ban the obstacle to be removed by our merits.

Another question is, if the Dalai Lama is an emanation of Chenrizig, should He place the Ban as further obstacles on our spiritual path.

Somehow all the speculations to the good intentions of the Ban do not sit very well with me.  Sorry, that is my lowly point of view.