Author Topic: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life  (Read 9432 times)

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« on: August 13, 2013, 01:33:33 PM »
Here's a story extracted from the translation of the Yellow book. It features a story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life. For some reason, his previous life strayed from the Gelug lineage and was punished by Dorje Shugden. Some view this controversially but I think that both Dorje Shugden and Kundeling Rinpoche manifested a divine drama as a lesson and teaching in the importance of upholding and remaining faithful to Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition. In this life, the current Kundeling Rinpoche is manifest extreme loyalty to lama, lineage and practice. He is an ardent practitioner of Dorje Shugden and continues to fight for the freedom to practice Dorje Shugden. 

TATSAK RINPOCHE

In accordance with the prophecy of the deities and lamas, Kundeling Tatsak Rinpoche Losang Thupten Jigme Gyaltsen was recognized as the reincarnation of his predecessor. He completed his religious education from the Gomang College of Drepung monastery. He had the traditional responsibilities to practice and promote a pure Gelug order. But he departed far away from the stainless system of Gelug practice and received treasure text teachings from Lhatsun Rinpoche and received certain corrupted initiations known as the father's experience and the mother's dream which originated from Mongolia. These activities greatly annoyed the king of Gelug Dharma protectors, Dorjee Shugden, and as such Tatsak Rinpoche was accordingly punished. One day he suffered an acute pain in his chest. After consulting many deities and lama, he was told that it was caused by Dorjee Shugden. So, the oracle of the deity was invited and with invocation, he confessed his mistakes with the support of Lhatsun
Rinpoche. It was of no help and in that place Lhatsun Rinpoche was scolded for his impure practice. Tatsak Rinpoche's illness was more serious and he in much pain. So he sent Kundeling Oser Gyaltsen to invite Kyabje
Trijang Dorjeechang. Another appeal was made via Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. I personally witnessed the event. During that time the great Dorjee Shugden said that since he had committed himself to protect the Gelug doctrine, there wasn't much he could do. However, when such evolved Gelug master is supporting, he would see what could be done. But mainly the whole thing depended on how Tatsak Rinpoche behaved. The
deity then asked Tatsak Rinpoche, "What will you do in the future ?" Tatsak Rinpoche wept bitterly and replied that he confessed his past mistakes and promised that henceforth he will stop the practice of Nyingma teachings. After that he recovered to some extent. Because he did not keep his promise, his health deteriorated again. Tatsak Rinpoche then left for India for medical treatment and as well as for the purpose of pilgrimage. He went to a big hospital in Calcutta for treatment. Even that was of no avail and he passed away.


Rinchen

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2013, 10:35:42 PM »
Through this it definitely shows the importance of the devotion towards one's lineage and practices. I believe that our protector Dorje Shugden has punished him to teach him valuable lesson, and also to help him purify his karma for abandoning his lineage and going for another lineage. I believe that when we do this we would have generated many negative karma due to the broken promises and vows that we made previously.

vajrastorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2013, 02:50:48 PM »
This story of the previous incarnation of Kundeling Rinpoche, extracted from the 'infamous' Yellow Book, shows very clearly that Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang's intention, with the contents of the Yellow Book(which were recorded down by Zemey Rinpoche who took down everything that his Guru , Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and explained to him), was to show how fiercely Dorje Shugden protected the purity of the lineage of Je Tsongkhapa . . But this was never done at the expense of putting down another lineage.

Kundeling Rinpoche's previous incarnation, Tatsak Rinpoche, was disloyal to the Gelug Lineage. He strayed away from the stainless system of Je Tsongkhapa's teachings by adopting corrupted initiations taken from another lineage. He fell sick and, later, because he promised Dorje Shugden he would stop  practicing another lineage's teachings, he recovered for a while. However, he did not keep his promise. Because of that his health deteriorated once more. Eventually he passed away in a big hospital in Calcutta, where he had gone to seek treatment.

lotus1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2013, 04:59:52 PM »
In the article that it is mentioned that Dorje Shugden punished Tatsak Rinpoche for being disloyal to the Gelug lineage. Would Dorje Shugden “punish” someone? If he is, would he like all the other unenlightened beings that would harm/punish one if one is not following his practice?
In my humble opinion, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and would not harm others although one may not continue with Dorje Shugden practice. I believe it is more likely the negative karma of Tatsak Rinpoche arising from broken samaya and the corrupted initiations that would have caused him to be sick and passed away.

dondrup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2013, 02:17:01 PM »
Dorje Shugden is the Dharma Protector who has pledged to protect and uphold the Gelug Lineage and doctrine.  If someone was to abandon or detract from the pure Gelug teachings for another impure teaching, that will definitely annoy Dorje Shugden!

Loyalty and devotion to our guru and lineage is of utmost importance to ensure our clean samaya with the guru and to receive the blessing of the lineage so that we can progress smoothly in our spiritual training. Integrity is another important quality that Dharmapala Dorje Shugden expects to see in all Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Tatsak Rinpoche has not only annoyed Dorje Shugden for detracting from his pure lineage, he had broken his promises to Dorje Shugden to stop practising polluted practices of another school! Instead of receiving blessing and protection from Dorje Shugden, Tatsak Rinpoche had  succumbed to his own karma, illness and died an earlier death!



Blueupali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
    • Email
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2013, 12:06:33 AM »
I tend to agree with Big Uncle that this is a teaching story, where two Buddha emanations demonstrate something we are supposed to learn.  So, I note that Kundeling Rinpoche had been mixing the Gelug with the Nyingma dharma; the Gelug dharma and the Nyingma dharma are both really excellent, of course, but the point of each is that if we follow whichever one is right for our own karma, we would become a Buddha on either path; mixing it haphazardly without a guru's blessing would be problematic, because while we might think we were practicing a lot, we might turn out to be distracting ourselves from what we really need to do. ( That said, sometimes it's okay, as long as a trusted spiritual guide helps us, like when Nyingmapas used to learn Ganden philosophy at Geshe Kelsang's monestary, while keeping their daily practice Nyingma.  Obviously, since they must have made arrangements with the monestary, this was okay with some enlightened Rinpoches.  In other words, that arrangement must have worked well for the practioners in question to reach Buddhahood.)
  So I agree though, that in reality the Buddhas don't really punish people, though they might do something wrathful to clear the karma of sentient beings, but as it's a teaching story, I guess its supposed to just make clear that it's generally not helpful to mix doctrines.

 

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2013, 10:58:19 AM »
I believe that the cautionary tales as explained in the Yellow book are not to be taken that Dorje Shugden is a jealous and punitive god to all. Most of the people mentioned were literally powerful lamas, who had the ability to control over life and death. Hence, I believe they knowingly created the circumstances for Dorje Shugden to reveal his strength and decisive action. It was kind of a divine play between Dorje Shugden and these lamas. You see, what these lamas do is reflected in the practice of hundreds to thousands of monks and lay followers. Hence, they are powerful examples for the masses.

Hence, Dorje Shugden would no harm the ordinary practitioner who goes wayward. In fact, he has never harmed. What makes you think Dorje Shugden had actually harmed these lamas?

Blueupali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
    • Email
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 04:53:23 AM »
I believe that the cautionary tales as explained in the Yellow book are not to be taken that Dorje Shugden is a jealous and punitive god to all. Most of the people mentioned were literally powerful lamas, who had the ability to control over life and death. Hence, I believe they knowingly created the circumstances for Dorje Shugden to reveal his strength and decisive action. It was kind of a divine play between Dorje Shugden and these lamas. You see, what these lamas do is reflected in the practice of hundreds to thousands of monks and lay followers. Hence, they are powerful examples for the masses.

Hence, Dorje Shugden would no harm the ordinary practitioner who goes wayward. In fact, he has never harmed. What makes you think Dorje Shugden had actually harmed these lamas?

My understanding of a teaching story, where the lamas in question are enlightened no one really gets harmed; so generally I think a lot of the teaching stories are supposed to be about various Buddhas emanating in various forms; one for instance might be an 'undercover Buddha' who pretends to be an ordinary monk; he breaks a minor vow and then his teacher, who is also an emanation of the Buddha reprimands him and then the entire monastic community realizes the importance of even minor vows.  In reality, of course, the teacher isn't mad at the student, as the teacher and the student are both emanations  of Buddha.  So, in this story, Dorje Shugden wouldn't be really harming any lamas, because I would assume that the lamas are all awake, perhaps even other emanations of Dorje Shugden himself.  Of course Buddhas don't experience real harm, but in order to teach, it might appear that way. 

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 10:27:23 AM »
My understanding of a teaching story, where the lamas in question are enlightened no one really gets harmed; so generally I think a lot of the teaching stories are supposed to be about various Buddhas emanating in various forms; one for instance might be an 'undercover Buddha' who pretends to be an ordinary monk; he breaks a minor vow and then his teacher, who is also an emanation of the Buddha reprimands him and then the entire monastic community realizes the importance of even minor vows.  In reality, of course, the teacher isn't mad at the student, as the teacher and the student are both emanations  of Buddha.  So, in this story, Dorje Shugden wouldn't be really harming any lamas, because I would assume that the lamas are all awake, perhaps even other emanations of Dorje Shugden himself.  Of course Buddhas don't experience real harm, but in order to teach, it might appear that way. 

Yes Blueupali,
Actually, what you are saying pretty much sums up the story better than how I explained it. Perhaps, that's how the requirement of a Dorje Shugden sogtae of being faithful to one's Guru and lineage originated. Whatever it is, one should be faithful to one's lineage and Guru regardless whether one is Nyingma, Kagyu, Sakya or even Gelug. This is so that confusion does not arise and for us to really apply ourselves with all the practices and teachings contained within each tradition. Most practitioners today would not be able to study and practice the entire breadth of an entire lineage in one lifetime anyway. We have too many distractions and attainments are harder to come by these days because of this.

christine V

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • Email
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2013, 01:24:07 PM »
From this story, we can say that Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector for real.
Dorje Shugden will stopped people who practice dharma wrongly. By stopping the practitioner towards practice wrongly, its helps in protecting the practitioner.

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 09:07:54 PM »
From this story, we can say that Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector for real.
Dorje Shugden will stopped people who practice dharma wrongly. By stopping the practitioner towards practice wrongly, its helps in protecting the practitioner.

Thank you Christine for putting in this very simple manner, the essence of Dorje Shugden. He is truly compassionate because he is willing to sacrifice his reputation as a compassionate protector to stop dangerous trends that was happening within the Gelug lineage that was threatening the survival of its highest teachings. Hence, he is praised for this very reason. Like a divine mother, Dorje Shugden is constantly watching with eagle divine eyes on all beings. He will always assist sincere practitioners and even errant practitioners, he will show signs to lead them back to the right path.

Dondrup Shugden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
Re: A story of Kundeling Rinpoche's previous life
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2015, 03:39:41 PM »
In the article that it is mentioned that Dorje Shugden punished Tatsak Rinpoche for being disloyal to the Gelug lineage. Would Dorje Shugden “punish” someone? If he is, would he like all the other unenlightened beings that would harm/punish one if one is not following his practice?
In my humble opinion, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and would not harm others although one may not continue with Dorje Shugden practice. I believe it is more likely the negative karma of Tatsak Rinpoche arising from broken samaya and the corrupted initiations that would have caused him to be sick and passed away.

I agree with Lotus1 point of view on the teachings of this story from the Yellow Book. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and Buddhas do not punish people, they are loving kindness and compassionate.

Tatsak Rinpoche succumbed to the negativities of his karma.