Author Topic: Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task  (Read 6009 times)

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
« on: July 10, 2013, 03:23:12 AM »
I came across this article, Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task, which i thought was interesting because of the following points. I have attached the full article below my comments:

1. "Deep divisions among Buddhist devotees over issues like succession of 17th Gyalwang Karmapa and rifts between Dalai Lama and Shugden community are perceived as potential threat perceptions,"

What are "potential threat perceptions"? If it is a perception, it means that it is a view, which may or may not be true. Obviously there is NO threat from Dorje Shugden practitioners, in fact, the threats are experienced BY the Dorje Shugden practitioners as have been documented in articles and videos on this very website. This includes the tight security for HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, which would not be necessary if there was no threat. The difference between the "potential threat perceptions" and threats to Dorje Shugden lamas and practitioners are the latter is VERY real.

2. "But it is almost impossible for security agencies to identify these anti-elements from Tibetan population."

Perhaps because there ARE none?

3. "We cannot ignore the community's recent activities against Dalai Lama."

What activities? I haven't heard of any threat to the Dalai Lama in the media or anywhere - by anyone, let alone Dorje Shugden practitioners.

4. "...We have already identified some of their places and monasteries in Tibetan settlements across India," said Ngodup Dorjee, security chief of the Tibetan exile government."

Oh my goodness. Do they mean....er... Shar Ganden? Ser Pom monastery?  That would be incredibly perceptive of them to have been able to identify those. Applause all round to the CTA. Ngodup Dorgee gets a medal.

5. "The Tibetan community is divided over Dorje Shugden controversy, evidently in recent days, as local police station has received an unnamed parcel from Singapore bearing the sender's name as Shugden, which contained a DVD and a letter questioning the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in the Tibetan struggle for an autonomous region within China."

Wow. The fact that the community is divided over this issue is nothing new. Is receiving a DVD and a letter questioning the role of the Dalai Lama in the Tibetan struggle constitute as a threat?

6. "Shugden is a segment of Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden, reportedly a Dharma protector of Sakya Gelug tradition. But it has not been recognized by the Dalai Lama and had been socially boycotted. Dalai Lama had issued an explicit ban order on this section of practitioners in 1996, stating that they do not comply with the principles of Buddhism."

Please let us be clear - Dorje Shugden was recognised by the Dalai Lama, after all, see the praise written to Dorje Shugden by the Dalai Lama himself. It was only later, that the Dalai Lama, for reasons of his own which have never been made clear, decided to condemn Dorje Shugden and CAUSED the boycott of this Buddha.

7. "Dorje Shugden practitioners have also been stripped off voting rights, which other Tibetans enjoy. They have also severed all connections with Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan administration."

Thank you TNN for highlighting that practitioners have been stripped of their voting rights. Actually they have been stripped of so much more. Monks have been expelled from their monasteries. Children are not permitted to go to schools. Dorje Shugden practitioners are forbidden from entering shops to buy basic necessities and are often spat on. They are not given travel papers which means they cannot leave their refugee camp.

Also, it is not that they have severed all connections with the Dalai Lama and the CTA. On the contrary, it is the Dalai Lama and the CTA who have cut all ties with them.

8. ""Dorje Shugden followers are damaging the websites openly and have their people in all Tibetan settlements. We are worried about their sources of funding. It might be China or some other anti-Tibetan elements," sources in the religion and culture department of Tibetan government in exile said."

Damage what websites??? Dorjeshugden.com, the largest and most popular website on Dorje Shugden in the world, even has a very public (and enforced) policy that people are respectful of and should NOT criticise the Dalai Lama.

Re having "their people in all Tibetan settlements", considering Dorje Shugden is widely practiced, of course Dorje Shugden practitioners will be in all the Tibetan settlements. And - considering that they have been part of the Tibetan settlements for so many years since the ban in 1996, what incidents have their been of Dorje Shugden practitioners being disruptive or threatening. Most commonly cited is a murder case, where the assailants are allegedly Dorje Shugden practitioners. However, there has been no case - the murderers were not arrested so everything is merely alleged.

As i have said elsewhere on the forum also, IF the murderers did HAPPEN to be Dorje Shugden practitioners, it does not mean that they represent ALL Dorje Shugden practitioners anyway. For example, just because a mass murderer is a Christian, who psychotically thinks that he is killing all non-Christians in the name of Christ, it does not mean that all Christians are bad or condone that behaviour or thought. It is so logical, i do not know why the CTA cannot see this.

9. "While they are enthroned as the 17th Karmapa by their followers and supporters, Ogyen Trinley Dorje has been accepted as the 17th Karmapa by Dalai Lama and the Chinese government."

Re the Karmapa issue, this topic has been extensively addressed on this website, interestingly enough. And the interesting point is the Dalai Lama and the Chinese government actually agree on Ogyen Trinley Dorje. This is a fascinating issue which has been covered extensively already and I strongly recommend forum participants to read the articles on the main website as well as on forum and add your thoughts.


Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
S Gopal Puri, TNN | Jul 10, 2013, 05.00 AM IST
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rift-among-Tibetans-riddles-security-agencies-task/articleshow/20996330.cms

DHARAMSHALA: The headquarters of Tibetan government in exile here witnessed high alert for the third consecutive day with security tightened around Dalai Lama's exile home, the Karmapa's monastery and Kangra airport. Meanwhile, threat perceptions to Buddhist leaders from divided Tibetan groups itself is an acid-test for the security agencies here, sources said.

Deep divisions among Buddhist devotees over issues like succession of 17th Gyalwang Karmapa and rifts between Dalai Lama and Shugden community are perceived as potential threat perceptions, sources said. But it is almost impossible for security agencies to identify these anti-elements from Tibetan population. Even Tibetan security agencies find it an uphill task, they pointed out.

"We are weighing every threat perception to Buddhist leaders and Tibetan pilgrimage places. This (Dorjee Shigden) threat is also under our scanner. We cannot ignore the community's recent activities against Dalai Lama. We have already identified some of their places and monasteries in Tibetan settlements across India," said Ngodup Dorjee, security chief of the Tibetan exile government.

The Tibetan community is divided over Dorje Shugden controversy, evidently in recent days, as local police station has received an unnamed parcel from Singapore bearing the sender's name as Shugden, which contained a DVD and a letter questioning the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in the Tibetan struggle for an autonomous region within China.

Shugden is a segment of Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden, reportedly a Dharma protector of Sakya Gelug tradition. But it has not been recognized by the Dalai Lama and had been socially boycotted. Dalai Lama had issued an explicit ban order on this section of practitioners in 1996, stating that they do not comply with the principles of Buddhism.

Dorje Shugden practitioners have also been stripped off voting rights, which other Tibetans enjoy. They have also severed all connections with Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan administration.

"Dorje Shugden followers are damaging the websites openly and have their people in all Tibetan settlements. We are worried about their sources of funding. It might be China or some other anti-Tibetan elements," sources in the religion and culture department of Tibetan government in exile said.

On the other hand, the second most followed leader of Tibetan community -- Ogyen Trinley Dorje, the 17th Karmapa -- is also being opposed by a group of Tibetans.

Since the death of 16th Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje, in 1981, the seat of Karmapa has courted controversy as there are two claimants -- Ogyen Trinley Dorje and Trinley Thaye Dorje. While they are enthroned as the 17th Karmapa by their followers and supporters, Ogyen Trinley Dorje has been accepted as the 17th Karmapa by Dalai Lama and the Chinese government.

Karmapa is the third highest spiritual leader of the Tibetans and heads the Kagyu sect. Among Tibetan Buddhists, he is ranked only after Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama. The historical seat of the Karmapa is Tsurphu monastery in Tolung valley of Tibet, while the principal seat-in-exile is at Rumtek monastery in Sikkim.

In 1994, Trinley Thaye was enthroned by Shamar Rinpoche as the 17th Karmapa at Karmapa International Buddhist Institute in New Delhi. The situation soon worsened at Rumtek monastery (the seat of the Karmapa) as it got divided into two opposing camps.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 06:22:36 AM »
This article was obviously written by the CTA to incite fear, but on the other hand it also shows that they are fanatical supporters of the Dalai Lama who support him as if he was a dictator, supreme commander. The threats that they have said are trumped up and have been exaggerated to make it seem like a very bad thing. What is wrong with going against the Dalai Lama? They make it sound as if it was the most horrible thing in the world and as you can see here, they are explicitly going all out against Thaye Dorje and the Sharmapa. Sigh.

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 11:12:35 AM »
This article was not written by the CTA. I don't think they are even capable of it. Unfortunately though, because of the public relations spin over the years to promote the Dalai Lama, he is given god-like status in the world and people take his word as the gospel. As such, even non-Buddhists, which i am presuming the author of this article to be, will not question what the Dalai Lama says. It is not that I am saying that the Dalai Lama does not deserve his status. I do still think of the Dalai Lama as Chenrezig. However, the Dalai Lama himself has explicitly said - don't just believe what i say, check it out. But nobody is checking out his illogical ban on Dorje Shugden. Now a really good news coup would be to question this ban - purely on evidence which is plentiful on this website! Unfortunately, until there is a journalist who is willing to think outside of the box, we will get articles like this. However, at least the Shugden issue is still being raised - so there is awareness of the Dorje Shugden. And because of this article, i hope people will search for more information, come to this website and read all about it!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2013, 03:06:52 AM »
This article was not written by the CTA. I don't think they are even capable of it. Unfortunately though, because of the public relations spin over the years to promote the Dalai Lama, he is given god-like status in the world and people take his word as the gospel. As such, even non-Buddhists, which i am presuming the author of this article to be, will not question what the Dalai Lama says. It is not that I am saying that the Dalai Lama does not deserve his status. I do still think of the Dalai Lama as Chenrezig. However, the Dalai Lama himself has explicitly said - don't just believe what i say, check it out. But nobody is checking out his illogical ban on Dorje Shugden. Now a really good news coup would be to question this ban - purely on evidence which is plentiful on this website! Unfortunately, until there is a journalist who is willing to think outside of the box, we will get articles like this. However, at least the Shugden issue is still being raised - so there is awareness of the Dorje Shugden. And because of this article, i hope people will search for more information, come to this website and read all about it!

The CTA is sadly capable of writing spin stories as the CIA is backing them up. A hint that this was written, at least, with influence from the CTA is here:

Quote
"We are weighing every threat perception to Buddhist leaders and Tibetan pilgrimage places. This (Dorjee Shigden) threat is also under our scanner. We cannot ignore the community's recent activities against Dalai Lama. We have already identified some of their places and monasteries in Tibetan settlements across India," said Ngodup Dorjee, security chief of the Tibetan exile government

This article is merely more propaganda material rather than actual news and it is meant to sow dischord, disharmony, fear and hatred amongst Tibetan symphatizers against Dorje Shugden followers and those who are on Thaye Dorje's camp, and does not reflect what the Tibetans think.

Rinchen

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
Re: Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2013, 06:04:13 PM »
I too agree with WisdomBeing, I do not think this is written by the CTA for a simple reason. They would not be able to pull this off so easily when they are not even able to convince the Chinese on why they should have their land back.

To me, I feel that the writer has not much knowledge on Buddhism at all, and he/she is a strong supporter of the Dalai Lama. So much so that the writer believes in everything that the Dalai Lama says without even verifying the truth from other sources.

The writer of the article is just taking major news that are going around to put it together to propaganda those who are easily influenced by the words in this article.

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2013, 05:17:47 AM »
I too agree with WisdomBeing, I do not think this is written by the CTA for a simple reason. They would not be able to pull this off so easily when they are not even able to convince the Chinese on why they should have their land back.

To me, I feel that the writer has not much knowledge on Buddhism at all, and he/she is a strong supporter of the Dalai Lama. So much so that the writer believes in everything that the Dalai Lama says without even verifying the truth from other sources.

The writer of the article is just taking major news that are going around to put it together to propaganda those who are easily influenced by the words in this article.

The CTA alone may not be able to write such an article, but with the help of CIA, they can. It may not even be the CTA people who wrote this, they only told the CTA what they want written and how it should be written because again, the main purpose of this article is to cement people's faith to the Dalai Lama and also to the CTA. If it was merely written by another person which is not CTA, they would not have even brought up CTA at all because nobody cares much about them, but here the CTA is very emphasized.

Blueupali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
    • Email
Re: Rift among Tibetans riddles security agencies' task
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2013, 10:16:58 PM »

 "While they are enthroned as the 17th Karmapa by their followers and supporters, Ogyen Trinley Dorje has been accepted as the 17th Karmapa by Dalai Lama and the Chinese government."
 
Quoting WisdomBeing:
"Re the Karmapa issue, this topic has been extensively addressed on this website, interestingly enough. And the interesting point is the Dalai Lama and the Chinese government actually agree on Ogyen Trinley Dorje. This is a fascinating issue which has been covered extensively already and I strongly recommend forum participants to read the articles on the main website as well as on forum and add your thoughts."

The Karmapas of Tibet are the oldest lineage of reincarnate lamas in Tibet, preceeding the lineage of reincarnating Dalai Lamas by 300 years.
  http://www.karmapa-issue.org/arguments.htm
  There is no historical precedent for the necessity of a government recongizing a Karmapa nor of the Gelugpa school at all.  Having the Gelugpas discover who a Karmapa is resembles allowing the (American) Republicans to pick the Democrats next candidate or vice versa; it would spiritually make as much sense as the Methodist Church announcing that they had found the next Pope for the Catholics.  Furthermore, as mentioned in the letter from the Kagyu conference in Kathmandu 2001 (link above), during the time of the 16th Karmapa, the Tibetan Government in Exile had proposed putting all 4 schools of Tibetan Buddhism under the Dalai Lama's jurisdiction; the 16th Karmapa had opposed this, and there were already some Gelugpas approaching certain Kagyu lamas offering to 'help' find the 17th Karmapa for the Kagyus.
  The Shamar Rinpoches, the Red Hat Lama of Tibet are the second oldest recognized lineage in Tibet:
  http://www.shamarpa.org/
  The Shamar Rinpoches are generally responsible for finding the Karmapa recogniztions, and are the 2nd highest lama in the Karma Kagyu lineage, after Karmapa:
  As Shamar Rinpoche says," After all, by long-standing practice, it is Shamarpas who are empowered to identify and recognize reincarnated Karmapas."
  http://www.karmapa-issue.org/history.htm
  Tai Situ, who is ranked third behind Shamar Rinpoche and Karmapa, found the China Karmapa, faxed the Dalai Lama, erroneously mentioned that Shamar Rinpoche and others agreed that this was the Karmapa.  Tai Situ asked the Dalai Lama for his endorsement, which the Dalai Lama gave. 
  Why would the 3rd in command suddenly pick the Karmapa  rather than the 2nd in command which had historically been the case?  Why would he need the unprecedented backing of the head of the Tibetan Government in Exile, the Dalai Lama?  Why would this happen to coincide with something that China wanted?  I don't know how to answer that, but to say that this has the appearance of political decisions, so I am sure that we are being shown, by magical display of the guru, to keep politics and religion separate.  In other words, Tai Situ and the Dalai Lama are showing "Buddhas teaching in reverse," showing us what not to do.
 For a good article, written from Shamar Rinpoche's perspective:
  http://www.karmapa-issue.org/history/controversy.htm
  To me, it seems as though the government of China wished to pick a Karmapa, because they don't believe that there is reincarnation anyway, so they just want to pick someone that will do as they want. If they pick a communist educated leader for the Tibetan people (such as perhaps they envisioned their Karmapa to become) then he would presumably do as China wishes.  It seemed that by backing the Chinese candiadate, that the Dalai Lama might be making way for a puppet government in an autonomous Tibet.
   As far as the Tibetan Govt in Exile, they apparently do believe in reincarnation, but want to pick a Karmapa that is easier for them to control; in other words they wouldn't maybe want the real 17th Karmapa since he would presumably act the 16th, and be opposed to the Gelugpa/Tibetan Government then ruler Dalai Lama taking control of all 4 schools.
  Tai Situ Rinpoche has been in trouble with the government of India in the past and was banned in 1994 from India, presumably for Chinese- related activities:   
 http://www.karmapa-issue.org/history/overview.htm
  So why do the Dalai Lama and China coincide on something?  Politics.  What is the result?  The appearance of the selling out of Buddhism and also the selling out of Tibet.