Author Topic: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!  (Read 11562 times)

wisdombuddha

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Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« on: May 11, 2008, 01:39:32 AM »
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=Organisations+accuse+Dhoegyal+Society+of+undermining+Tibetan+freedom+struggle&id=21174

Today was the final day that the Tibetans all had to sign the agreement never to worship Dorje Shugden.
It figures that this comes out on that day....

We are now in league with China, murders, and trying to stop Tibetan freedom.
Nice Dalai Lama... Nice. How about you stop lying now?

Bhuyakpo

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2008, 09:19:51 AM »
Friend my sincere request to you is not to defame His Holiness The Dalai Lama. Because of his supreme presence that we tibetans no matter whether you follow Him or not are deeply indebted and thankful for our survival. I am sure might not agree but if you are a pure buddha dharma protector then fight for the tibetan cause for the freedom for the country and we could discuss about the religous freedom once we gain our independence.   

kelsang

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2008, 10:28:38 AM »
The Dalai Lama has his position not because of his good qualities...
He is kind of charismatic yes but his position in the world has nothing to do with his character, he was promoted by Lamas already living in the west who worked very hard to get him into tv interviews and this kind of stuff, now hes repaying it by destroying their lineage.
The very truth about the Dalai Lama is that he is an angry old man so much involved into politics, magic and surrounded by mannipulative people, fake oracles and a childish and ignorant "government", that he lost control.
I have very good reason for saying this and although i dont know Dalai Lama personally i know many people who do and who were with him since he left tibet.

love
Kelsang

theloneranger

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2008, 11:20:06 AM »
Quote
Friend my sincere request to you is not to defame His Holiness The Dalai Lama. Because of his supreme presence that we tibetans no matter whether you follow Him or not are deeply indebted and thankful for our survival. I am sure might not agree but if you are a pure buddha dharma protector then fight for the tibetan cause for the freedom for the country and we could discuss about the religous freedom once we gain our independence.


In my research on the Dorje Shudgen controversery over the past five years, i hereby solemnly swear that the Dalai Lama or should we now call him the Dalai Lier is a hypocrite, lier and bent politician.

I also don't care much for tibetan independence, it is a complete waste of time and effort. Learn to cherish your chinese brothers and sisters, have compassion for them, they are after all provoked by your very own karma. 

I think you are better off with the chinese to be honest, they will give you much more freedom then the Dalai Lama ever will. Infact since the chinese have come to Tibet, slavery has disappeared and the standard of living has greatly improved. Actually if you check you will see that human rights have actually improved in tibet since the chinese came.

If i was tibetan, i would be trying my best to make friends with the chinese, rather than antagonize them. Isn't it better to have friends than enemies? Tibetan Independence will never happen in a million years and the Dalai Lama will never be allowed back to Tibet. It is a completely hopeless cause, it will never happen, not in a million years! 

I have noticed from reading alot of posts from phayul that the Dalai Lama and his government have brainwashed the majority of tibetans, the majority of tibetans sort of remind me of the maoist youth congregation.  Completely brainwashed and unable to think for themselves!!

So better to conserve your energy and use that energy to cherish your chinese brothers and sisters and learn to live in harmony.  When the Olympics is over, the world's media will forget about you tibetans again. Thats the reality, better to live in reality than the realms of fantasy.  The more you demonstrate against the chinese, the more they will suppress you tibetans.  The chinese are a world super power now, so they listen to nowbody but themselves. 

Fighting for tibetan independence is like a gambler backing a one legged horse, in a race where the other horses all have legs  ;D

« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 06:57:30 AM by Admin »

beggar

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2008, 11:53:57 AM »

Thank you Bhuyakpo,

This is our request here as well, and even those who personally dislike His Holiness - it would be nice to look deeper before making derogatory statements like 'angry old man'. If you and i, Kelsang, got on TV  as much as the Dalai Lama - i don't think we would be world-famous as humanitarians and spiritual leaders.

How the stage has been set by great Dorje Shugden practitioners chosen by His Holiness himself, we have described here. How politics and un-holy advisers create huge obstacles and broken samaya i think is evident wherever we look. To follow oracles who say the sky is blue...the sky is green... the sky has no color... the sky is blood red... the sky kills... seems definitely problematic, especially when trying to convince non-Tibetans. And that it all takes on a bizarre look as the 'problem' didn't just go away after a few inflammatory remarks is undisputed. And yes, i don't think what is being said about Dorje Shugden and us practitioners is skillful, but does that mean i have to adopt the same methods? If i want to win this debate based on my opinions, will it be enough to make categorical remarks? Then the 'power' of these would have to be based on my reputation, and i have none (and wish for none).

So, again and again - what is it that we wish to achieve? To express our feelings? There's plenty of forums for that. Or be of help to all including ourselves? Then we have to practice Dharma mind, Dharma speech and action now more than ever.

It seems one of the big unspoken problems from which Dorje Shugden is a welcome distraction is that there is no such thing as 'the Tibetan cause for freedom of the country' anymore. I remember well how dismayed and angry many younger Tibetans were when that cause was relinquished in Strasbourg, and i wonder what they felt when later the state oracle suddenly announced that Tibet would be free by the year 2000, and the year of 2000 came and went...

Wisdombuddha, to tell the Dalai Lama to stop lying is going to convince no one of anything except that you are some fanatic, CAN'T YOU SEE IT?

EVERYONE, IF YOU WISH TO HELP IT'S GOING TO INVOLVE SKILLFUL WORK AND REAL COMMITMENT.
ONE POST BY TRINLEY KALSANG HAS MORE LONG TERM BENEFICIAL POWER THAN A MILLION "WHY", "YOU SHOULD", "IF THEY HADN'T..", "HE IS.."

LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN IN A WAY THE WORLD CAN RECOGNIZE IT - FACTUAL, PRECISE, POLITE.

AND IF WRITING SKILFULLY IS NOT OUR STRENGTH, THEN LET'S FUNDRAISE FOR TRINLEY KALSANG AND DECLARE HIM HEAD OF THE RESEARCH DEPARTMENT OF THE VIRTUAL JE TSONGKHAPA UNIVERSITY!



jeff Ryan

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2008, 12:41:26 PM »
i second the motion! TK for Chair of research! :)

kelsang

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2008, 12:44:46 PM »
Dear beggar,
its rue that its mainly people surrounding the Dalai Lama who caused and started this problem ( did you know that after he arrived in india safely he asked HH Trijang Rinpoche to grant him sog de (life empowerment) of Dorje Shugden and some days before the empowerment he got an advice from fake Nechung oracle not to take it ... if you want to know i can write the whole story here) anyway the Dalai Lama himself is responsible for his own actions and he has the power to change life of thousands of people for the good. I still think many of us have no clue how much people suffer in india right now.
If it comes to what is skillfull and appropriate, personally i think its always good to tell the truth, obviously not in a respectless manner but also not with unnessesary respect for a title or a position.
And about Dalai Lamas fame well, may i gues that you are not a god king with a tragic life story and hundrets of people of great influence supporting you. I am not (although iam pretty charismatic too ;) ) i dont think we can compare that.
However nothing i say is meant to hurt anybodys feelings especially as i remember quite well how hurt i was when i had to read all the lies about my Lamas.

many different people, many different points of view on the "same" thing, i very much agree with the request to respect and tolerate them.


love and prayers

Kelsang


beggar

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2008, 12:59:30 PM »

Dear Kelsang,

I heard and also read here the story about the empowerment - in brief.

What we need are well-funded, well-written true accounts of the important events that happened and are happening.

So it would be great if you could write that detailed account!!

Thanks, b

kelsang

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2008, 02:52:36 PM »
Hm ..
i am not very good in remembering details and names...
but i will tell u what i remember as clear as possible. When Dalai Lama was about to leave Tibet it was mainly Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche who planed the escape, however he also asked the Dorje Shugden oracle       
for advice the oracle gave exact details about date route and time of the escape he also gave them a blessed sword and promised them a successful escape if they would do everything as said and find a person in the entourage with the name Dorje who was supposed to point with the sword 3 times towards the way they were going, every morning. As we all know they successfully arrived and the Dalai Lama was very thankful
towards Dorje Shugden and did many things to show his gratefulness he told his personal (namgyal) monastery to learn the original melodies from Kyabje Phabonkha rinpoche and they had to do kangso often. He also asked Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche for the sog de empowerment and Rinpoche agreed, started to do the propper preperations like blessing a Thanka painter his colours and everything for painting the picture of Dorje Shugden you need for the empowerment. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche also gave the Dalai Lama a very precius Lamrim text printed from woodblocks blessed by Je Tsongkhapa.
Before the empowerment was supposed to take place there was a anual festival where traditionally the Nechung oracle went into trance. The Nechung oracle of that time was fake and the "Kuten Lama" himself and others who manipulated the Dalai Lama with this oracle thought they would loose their influence to Dorje Shugden so the oracle made some very skillful wrong predictions on that day.
It said that the Dalai Lama was about to take an empowerment wich was maybe not suitable for him at the moment and if he would take it Palden Lhamo would be upsed...
The Dalai Lama was talking to Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche the next day and seeing the little doubts in Dalai Lamas mind he agreed to do the empowerment another time he still told the Dalai Lama that it was impossible that Palden Lhamo would be upsed with him taking the empowerment of Dorje Shugden.
However the Dalai Lama didnt give up his plan to take the impowerment untill the beginning of the 70s (that is when he gave the Thanka and the text back to Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche) although from that moment on the oracle started to speak against Dorje Shugden and later blamed him for his lies and wrong predictions.

I heard this story from a person who directly talked to His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche some days after the epowerment was supposed to take place.
i appologise for anything i may have missunderstood written in the wrong way or left out.

love and prayers

Kelsang

theloneranger

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2008, 03:21:00 PM »
Dear All

When my teacher visited a new kadampa centre recently to recieve info regarding the protests, many people were asking why some of the wording was so strong in the pdf book, A nun who is leading the protests and the Western Shugden Society replied that she understood everyone's concerns but explained that when one is protesting, the words must have an impact otherwise we will not be heard.  In my opinion, there is a strategy and a very good reason why strong words are being used.  I suppose as much as some of us may dislike the content, the words must have an impact with the media and the folks who are not buddhists.  Also i was told one of the reasons why the tibetans were joining up was because of the pdf book.  I believe if tibetans start turning against the Dalai Lama it will have a massive impact.  If his own people start turning against him, the media will be straight onto it. I don't belief the Dalai Lama will ever have an open debate, this in my opinion will never happen.  There is one massive difference between the protests of now and the the protests of 1997-98, the internet!

cheers

the lone ranger

a friend

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2008, 09:46:50 PM »
Friend my sincere request to you is not to defame His Holiness The Dalai Lama. Because of his supreme presence that we tibetans no matter whether you follow Him or not are deeply indebted and thankful for our survival. I am sure might not agree but if you are a pure buddha dharma protector then fight for the tibetan cause for the freedom for the country and we could discuss about the religous freedom once we gain our independence.   

Dear Bhuyakpo,

If by "defame" you mean "give a bad name" here in this website for a long time we have tried our best to do all sorts of mental and verbal maneuvers to try to salvage his name somehow... Then the Dalai Lama attacked again, with extraordinary force and intent, and is doing terrible things against the pure Gelugpa Sangha in all Tibetan monasteries, and is making lay Tibetans segregate and discriminate and shun and harm the practitioners, or even their families. What a shame!

So who is defaming him, if not HIMSELF? Persecuting the Sangha who is faithful to Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, his own Tsawe Lama! If this is not shameful, what is?

................

Dear friend, how come you love the Dalai Lama and want to gain independence for Tibet? He doesn't want it.
The Dalai Lama gave up independence in 1988, and he banned Dorje Shugden in order to distract your patriotic minds from this fact.
I beg you to please go to another part of this forum and read A SUMMARY OF THE POLITICAL MOTIVATIONS DISCERNIBLE BEHIND THE DORJE SHUGDEN ISSUE. (Right now it's in page 2 of the Forum).

So I suggest that you defend your fellow Tibetans harmed by the Dalai Lama's actions, they are quite numerous. They are your living Tibet that you can defend.


...

jeff Ryan

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 10:06:22 PM »
Friend my sincere request to you is not to defame His Holiness The Dalai Lama. Because of his supreme presence that we tibetans no matter whether you follow Him or not are deeply indebted and thankful for our survival. I am sure might not agree but if you are a pure buddha dharma protector then fight for the tibetan cause for the freedom for the country and we could discuss about the religous freedom once we gain our independence.   

Dear Bhuyakpo,

How about if we stop the atrocities being persecuted on fellow Tibetans by Tibetans. The segregation and resulting suffering being persecuted by the Dalai Lama is NOT in accord with Buddhist ethics and IS illegal in all countries that value human rights! He shames himself and all freedom loving Tibetans everywhere. When the truth of the Dalai Lama's tyranny becomes well known in the world the Tibetan cause will be lost because respect for Dalai Lama will be lost. If you love your country then work to stop the tyranny first so your spokesperson will have a chance to remain respected in the world community.

Bhuyakpo

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2008, 02:14:25 PM »
you know guys,

I am a tibetan born and brought in India. As far as my education is concerned I am a software professional with a reputed MNC. If you guys says we have been brainwashed then I don't agree with you as I am in a position to judge who is bad and who is good by judging the two sides. I am not saying don't worship your God but atleast don't try to create a hindrance to His Holiness The Dalai Lama and don't try to create a rift between the tibetan brothers and sisters. You guys do whatever you want! When I saw Trichang Rinpoche TEARS ROLLED DOWN MY EYES. His age is same as mine and I am really worried whether he has been brainwashed by you as a human being when one spends too much time with somebodyelse then the other person tends to draw and agree with the people who the other person stays with. Trichang Rinpoche is very dear to the Tibetan in Exile  no matter whether he is a monk or not, he will be always there and we admire and love him lot. So my message don't try to create a crack between His Holiness The Dalai Lama and The Trichang Rinpoche. May their relation last forever.

Alexis

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2008, 02:37:49 PM »
Dear Bhuyakpo,

Trijang Dorjechang (the previous one) was the main Dorje Shugden Lama in Tibet and in Exile. Trijang Dorjechang was the main Holder of this particuliar Lineage and promoted fully it until his parinirvana in 1981.

In fact, if you knew better, you would understand that Trijang Dorjechang has the same Body, Speech and Mind as Dorje Shugden. He is, in a certain way, Dorje Shugden himself.

So, to see the DL shacking hands (photo) with an emanation of Dorje Shugden is very auspicious indeed!

The DL, however, having broken his commitments to his guru long time ago, doesn't seem to understand the meaning of his actions... ;)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 08:35:53 PM by Alexis »

a friend

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Re: Dalai Lama STOP LYING!
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 03:49:58 PM »
Dear Bhuyakpo,

You are the one who iniciated this discussion.
It would be nice if you would not add more and more reasons to your side before answering the first ones that you yourself put forward.
So please read what has been answered to you about your two original subjects:

1-Please not to defame the Dalai Lama
2-To wait until Tibet gains its independence and only then talk about religious freedom.

We already answered to you, in moderate detail, saying that

1-He is the one defaming himself with his actions.
2-The Dalai Lama does not want independence for Tibet, so why are you requesting it as a requisite for religious freedom?

Please, we sincerely request you, read what we answered to your two original subjects. And read at least some of the historical material contained in this website.

Like that you will avoid being brainwashed yourself. This, to be brainwashed, is a pity for such a young man. Come on, be brave, dare investigate the truth by yourself!

...