Author Topic: Self-immolations against Buddhist preachings, says Tibetan spiritual leader  (Read 16213 times)

WisdomBeing

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I am so glad to see this. Despite his position as the spiritual leader of the Tibetan diaspora, HH the Dalai Lama has not criticised the self-immolations but now the HH Karmapa is speaking up and telling the Tibetans to stop. I hope that the Tibetans will take heed of this and realize that if we are following the Buddhist teachings, we should never commit suicide – whatever the purpose. Personally I find that committing suicide for the sake of geography is nonsensical.

Throughout history, borders have changed, political parties have changed. The very fact of impermanence. Hanging on to the past is not only futile, it is against the Buddhist tenets. Instead of fighting for independence, why not fight for human rights and religious freedom? Campaign for the ban against Dorje Shugden to be lifted! I am of course not advocating self-immolation for the Dorje Shugden cause, but raise awareness and lobby the Dalai Lama for a higher cause than geography!



Self-immolations against Buddhist preachings, says Tibetan spiritual leader
http://truthdive.com/2012/12/19/Self-immolations-against-Buddhist-preachings-says-Tibetan-spiritual-leader.html
Posted by News Desk on December 19, 2012

Bodh Gaya (Bihar), Dec. 19 (ANI): Tibetan spiritual leader and claimant to the title of the 17th Karmapa Lama, Trinley Thaye Dorje, said on Tuesday that self-immolation is against Buddhist practices at the Buddhist pilgrimage centre of Bodh Gaya in Bihar.

Urging for a stop to such modes of protest by his compatriots, Dorje described the recent instances of self-immolation as ‘saddening’.

“I have been saying this for the past few days that it is a very saddening fact to come across. It is very difficult to digest, and I really wish that it could be stopped, because it is going very much against the practice of Buddhism. Therefore, I offer my prayers and thoughts that this must stop,” said Dorje.

Dorje added that more than the tangible demand for political freedom, it was important that Tibetans focus on spiritually strengthening themselves.

“Political independence, these are from a mundane perspective. As far as I know from a practitioner’s point of view, such things are always subjective to change. Whatever we have today, tomorrow it might be gone. Whatever we do not have tomorrow, we might get it back. So, it is endless,” he said.

There have been 95 burnings in all to protest Chinese rule since 2009, according to the Tibet-government-in-exile. At least 77 people have died from their injuries. (ANI)
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dsiluvu

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“I have been saying this for the past few days that it is a very saddening fact to come across. It is very difficult to digest, and I really wish that it could be stopped, because it is going very much against the practice of Buddhism. Therefore, I offer my prayers and thoughts that this must stop,” said Dorje.

Dorje added that more than the tangible demand for political freedom, it was important that Tibetans focus on spiritually strengthening themselves.

“Political independence, these are from a mundane perspective. As far as I know from a practitioner’s point of view, such things are always subjective to change. Whatever we have today, tomorrow it might be gone. Whatever we do not have tomorrow, we might get it back. So, it is endless,” he said.

I like how the Karmapa has step up to address this issue yet again! Not only is this what many are in agreement with, goes with Dharma conduct but it will also please China to hear this. A better approach in creating good relations with China if the Karmapa is to be the next successor after HHDL which will create the cause for an opportunities to have dialogue with China (in the future) concerning the well-being of the Tibetans in Tibet. In which for Tibetans to live a healthy, happier life, preserving their culture while their under the Chinese ruling would be far more realistic goal. Instead of shouting and burning themselves to gain independence. Why not accept the progress China is providing, better infrastructure, new developments creating new jobs, education etc which I don't think at this moment CTA has the resources to do for their people any way. 

Though if we really do follow His 2nd comment and follow Dharma, all the burning drama and political talks would be of no concern, and a much waste of time... wise words from a wise man... but would His people listen is a different story. They are not listening to His Holiness why would they listen to the Karmapa? And CTA nothing to say... sad.

   

Ensapa

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Shoudnt giving announcements like these be done by the Dalai Lama and the CTA? Why is the Karmapa having to stand up to make statements like this? Why isnt the Dalai Lama's candidate, Orgyen Trinley not speaking up against the self immolations, or that he is also aware that the CTA is instigating the self immolations, and therefore it would appear to be somewhat hypocritical if he commented against the self immolations? In any case, it is very proper for the Karmapa, or any Buddhist leader to comment against the self immolations as it shows that they still value Buddhist teachings and values.

Lineageholder

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I'm so glad the Karmapa said this!  I'm surprised and saddened that Lamas who are generally held to be more senior have not had the compassion to condemn these pointless suicides. 

Good for Trinley Thaye Dorje!  I hope that people will listen to his view.

Lineageholder

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Dorje added that more than the tangible demand for political freedom, it was important that Tibetans focus on spiritually strengthening themselves.

“Political independence, these are from a mundane perspective. As far as I know from a practitioner’s point of view, such things are always subjective to change. Whatever we have today, tomorrow it might be gone. Whatever we do not have tomorrow, we might get it back. So, it is endless,” he said.

I'm so glad he said this.  I've been wondering why the Dalai Lama and the CTA have not been encouraging people to have a more philosophical and spiritual perspective on the loss of Tibet.  Everything is impermanent as WisdomBeing said and so energy should go into letting go of attachment to a particular geographical location on this illusory world and its 'ownership' and concentrating on spiritual development instead of politics.

What a breath of fresh air!  I hope that Trinley Thaye Dorje becomes more prominent and influential as he seems to have a correct spiritual perspective and isn't afraid to speak out.

WisdomBeing

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And CTA nothing to say... sad.

   

Why isn’t the CTA saying anything? Well, the irony is that the Dalai Lama resigned from being the political head of the Tibetan Government In Exile (TGIE), now known as the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) but yet the CTA is still towing the Dalai Lama’s line. What is the point of having Lobsang Sangay as the Kalon Tri when he has no power to really rule?

Proof of independence of the CTA from the Dalai Lama would be to condemn the self-immolations AND lift the ban on Dorje Shugden practitioners – to allow children of Dorje Shugden practitioners to attend school, to allow Dorje Shugden practitioners to travel, etc.
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vajratruth

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I am so glad to see this. Despite his position as the spiritual leader of the Tibetan diaspora, HH the Dalai Lama has not criticised the self-immolations but now the HH Karmapa is speaking up and telling the Tibetans to stop. I hope that the Tibetans will take heed of this and realize that if we are following the Buddhist teachings, we should never commit suicide – whatever the purpose. Personally I find that committing suicide for the sake of geography is nonsensical.



I came across this CNN video clip [click on link below] where foreign journalists are saying that the Dalai Lama has fallen short of his duty and obligation to stop these self immolations. A good point that was raised was that a lot of these suicides are committed by very young people who are spiritually new and may also be politically unaware of what the real situation within Tibet is. I would agree with that.

As an observer, I am further confused as to what is the official "Tibet Cause" now. Is it still outright freedom, or greater political autonomy, or freedom to preserve their own culture and language, or even a simple wish to return to their homeland? To me, the self immolations is a clear indication that the CTA has failed its people terribly. It has been over 50 years since Tibetans lost their nation but only now we see these acts of protests. Tibetans, especially the younger ones are becoming aware of how hopeless their cause is and this to me, is the failure of the CTA to lead and give Tibetans hope. To me, these self immolations are protests against China, are as much if not more desperate pleas to the Tibetan's own incompetent government for their paralysis. Thích Nh?t H?nh once said: "To burn oneself by fire is to prove that what one is saying is of the utmost importance. There is nothing more painful than burning oneself. To say something while experiencing this kind of pain is to say it with utmost courage, frankness, determination and sincerity." So what is the real underlying message of the self immolators if not to ask the CTA to set aside their own selfish agendas and get about uniting the people.

The CTA seems to be spending all its time making the same rhetorical speeches, focussing on name changes of its nationless government, suppressing freedom of expression and persecuting its own people based on their faith. Everything but streamline its policy towards China and uniting its people behind a singular vision.

I doubt if it is up to the Dalai Lama alone to adress the Tibetan issue. I have become very skeptical with the CTA. Perhaps they have more to gain personally by continuing in their exile status and feeding off the Dalai Lama, India's generosity and aid from foreign nations. The same irresponsible attitude Dr Lobsang Sangay and his ministers are showing towards the Tibetan cause, is the same they are showing the Shugden ban. What a shame.

http://cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/07/16/exp-nr-dalai-lama-immolations.cnn

lightning

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Refering to self immolations, Serkong Tritul Rinpoche has written an excellent response against self immolations, but it is in Chinese and required translation:
http://kadhampa.org:85/kadhampa/read.php?tid=2881

Ensapa

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It seems that more and more Dharma masters are speaking out against the self immolations, and it is all justified because SELF IMMOLATIONS SHOULD NOT REPRESENT BUDDHISM. It does not take a lot of Dharma knowledge to know and learn that SELF IMMOLATIONS are harmful to everyone around them. The taking of a life is never a good thing even if it is someone committing suicide for a certain cause or something. There are no words to justify such actions and nothing should be used to justify it at all.

lightning

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Refering to self immolations, Serkong Tritul Rinpoche has written an excellent response against self immolations, but it is in Chinese and required translation:
http://kadhampa.org:85/kadhampa/read.php?tid=2881


Q: Venerable HH Serkong Tritul Rinpoche. Will HH Dalai Lama will self immolate Himself for the sake of Tibet Independenence?
A: Please rest assure! That will be never happen!

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolations against Buddhist preachings, says Tibetan spiritual leader
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 07:07:55 AM »
Refering to self immolations, Serkong Tritul Rinpoche has written an excellent response against self immolations, but it is in Chinese and required translation:
http://kadhampa.org:85/kadhampa/read.php?tid=2881


Q: Venerable HH Serkong Tritul Rinpoche. Will HH Dalai Lama will self immolate Himself for the sake of Tibet Independenence?
A: Please rest assure! That will be never happen!


Now that is a very sarcastic take on the self immolations and that is true to some extent. None of the CTA officials would immolate themselves for the freedom of Tibet. Lobsang Sanggay wont do that either. the whole self immolation ploy only works on restless tibetan youths. If self immolation is really as noble and good as the CTA seems to portray it to be, then there should be more government servants self immolating to highlight the Tibetan cause? why are they none?

dondrup

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Re: Self-immolations against Buddhist preachings, says Tibetan spiritual leader
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 04:25:56 PM »
Finally someone of authority from the Tibetan community has spoken up against self-immolation!  I fully agree with what Trinley Thaye Dorje had said.  But more lives could have been saved had Trinley Thaye Dorje voiced out the concern earlier!  It is unfortunate that HH Dalai Lama and CTA until today still have not put a stop to self-immolation!  Trinley Thaye Dorje has a point - Tibetan should develop their spirituality and not focus their attention on political independence, a mundane affair which is subject to change and is impermanent.

Ensapa

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Re: Self-immolations against Buddhist preachings, says Tibetan spiritual leader
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2012, 11:05:41 AM »
Finally someone of authority from the Tibetan community has spoken up against self-immolation!  I fully agree with what Trinley Thaye Dorje had said.  But more lives could have been saved had Trinley Thaye Dorje voiced out the concern earlier!  It is unfortunate that HH Dalai Lama and CTA until today still have not put a stop to self-immolation!  Trinley Thaye Dorje has a point - Tibetan should develop their spirituality and not focus their attention on political independence, a mundane affair which is subject to change and is impermanent.

I dont think it makes a difference whether or not they speak up against self immolation, on the actual statistics itself unless it is HHDL himself who speak out against the self immolations that are going on. But what it does show is that someone is brave enough to speak out against HHDL's dominance. Self immolations are wrong and no matter how anyone at all, including the Dalai Lama wants to whitewash it, it is not something constructive and it does hurt the families of the self immolators very much, regardless of whether or not the Dalai Lama says something about it or not.

harrynephew

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Re: Self-immolations against Buddhist preachings, says Tibetan spiritual leader
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2012, 05:11:31 AM »
Refering to self immolations, Serkong Tritul Rinpoche has written an excellent response against self immolations, but it is in Chinese and required translation:
http://kadhampa.org:85/kadhampa/read.php?tid=2881


No matter how much other authorities and high Lamas speak about self immolation, as long as HHDL does not speak up about this issue, the issue remains an issue because the CTA does not do anything about it. Why would the CTA wanna see their fellow countrymen burn themselves for the sake of freedom? Doesn't that make the CTA one person less in their population and a huge huge mole in their face for having the world associate Tibetans with self destruction?

As long as the CTA doesn't address this issue, it would not make the minds of the Tibetans both inside and outside of Tibet change.

Why not take refuge in the ultimate protector of the teachings, Dorje Shugden himself?

This grants more backing and freedom from samsara
Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

dsiluvu

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Re: Self-immolations against Buddhist preachings, says Tibetan spiritual leader
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2012, 08:58:11 AM »
Even the Kagyu Karmapas have said that this self-immolation thing is wrong and Tibetans as Buddhist nation should STOP!

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/both-karmapas-urge-tibetans-to-stop-self-immolation/

But WHY has the CTA said nothing? Actually all HHDL has to do is announce in the media and publicly that this self-immolation act is wrong, he does not condone it and it would be going against His wishes, and I am sure people will listen and STOP. But why has he not and instead create disharmony against Shugden practitioners which is such a small issue compared to this??? I am sure by doing this, China would be happy and perhaps this will create the possibility of China being a little bit more open to dialogue with them.
That baffles me how they think and what is their priority.

People burning them selves and dying - No sound, Not Ban, Not priority.
People wanting to do their own lineage protector practice - Ban and is a big deal.

This will create more and more doubts in people's minds on the CTA's leadership and sooner or later they will lose respect of their own people and the world, especially after HHDL goes in to clear light.