Author Topic: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals  (Read 12880 times)

Aurore

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Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« on: August 05, 2012, 07:37:24 PM »
A Buddha’s emanations spontaneously appear wherever living beings’ minds are capable of perceiving them. The sole purpose of Buddhas' emanation in any form is to help living beings. Sometimes they manifest as Buddhists and sometimes as non-Buddhists. They can manifest as women or men, gods, kings, prostitutes, law-abiding citizens or criminals. They can even manifest as animals, as wind or rain, or as mountains or islands.

For example, it is said that the worldy Hindu god, Kali is an emanation of Palden Lhamo. My guess is some minds may need the help of a worldly god to grant them wishes and eventually help lead them towards the spiritual path. 

However, for a negative emanation such thieves, I am puzzled with how such emanation can help someone? Any thoughts, anyone?

Klein

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 07:59:31 PM »
I guess what you're trying to say is that the Buddhas may not manifest in the manner that fits into our perceptions. An example I can think of is Chogyam Trungpa. If you read about this famous Rinpoche, you will be shocked. Rinpoche disrobed and would drink alcohol, have drugs and have orgies with his students. Even the monks in his monastery could not except what he was doing.




If you look at his results today, Naropa University is a full fledged University in the USA. The women he slept with are either nuns or teachers in the University. His male students are either monks or working in the University as well. Therefore, we can see that methods can differ and be "outrageous" but the motivation is to bring the people into the dharma. The results speak for themselves.

This is the link to a forum post known as The Crazy Wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1709.0

sonamdhargey

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 03:20:57 PM »
How emanating as theif can benefit someone is very subjective. How it can benefit depends on the outcome will be for that individual. Well like what Klien posted about Chogyam Trungpa that Buddha manifest in many forms to suit the individual and culture.

Tammy

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 03:34:15 PM »
This reminds me of a story that goes :

During a terrible flood, a man's house was submerged into water except for the roof. He was forced to stay on rooftop to avoid being drown. As day goes by, no one came to h rescue, hence he started praying, "dear god, please help me out of this." soon he saw a tiny boat, carried by the water, drifted near him, he ignored the boat and kept praying to god for help.

Later of the day, a helicopter came by, they crew drop a robe, asked him tie himself to be lifted to the copper. He chased it away, very certain god will come and rescue him.

A fees of praying yielded to nothing n the man swoon died of dehydration and hunger. His soul was sent to heaven.nupon seeing god, he demanded, "god, I was praying real hand, why didn't you came to my rescue!" god replied, "my dear, I have sent a boat and a helicopter but you rejected both of them, what more do you expect of me?
"

This is just like emanation of the enlightened one, they come in all shapes and forms depending on the situation.
Down with the BAN!!!

biggyboy

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 01:36:21 PM »
Because of Buddha's great compassion, he can spontaneously manifest in many different forms in order to guide and benefit sentient beings. Sometimes they emanate as high level bodhisattvas , and the form of such a bodhisattva counters specific purpose or in a way that one would never even expect that a Buddha may manifest.. ways that are against our beliefs and understanding. 

He appears in different forms according to a being’s karma, and that Buddhas appear in skilful ways. They don’t announce themselves. But they can act in very subtle ways to influence other people, so that those people begin to create good karma, they begin to get an idea of ethics, they begin to practise bodhicitta and so on. They say that a Buddha can appear as one of our friends, as a dog or as a cat, or in any other form, so long as they can help us. Once again, these aren’t announced and they often come and go, so we don’t even recognize them.

That is why we are always taught to treat every being the same be they thieves, criminals or animals.  Hence, they are our means of practice.

A story to share on Asanga Meeting Buddha Maitreya

Asanga was one of the famous buddhist saints that was born during 300 C.E. and lived for seventy years, he was also the founder chittamatra or Mind-Only School, one of the branches of Madhyamika.

At one period of time, he went to the Gurpa Mountain for a long solitary retreat on uddha Maitreya. He was hoping to get some accomplishments in the practice and meet Buddha Maiterya.

After 3 years of meditation(3rd year), he was getting frustrated because there were still no signs of any improvement or even an auspicious dream. So he withdraw from his retreat and left the mountain.

On his way, he saw some birds sitting on a big rock. There was a thin line of crack on the rock beside these birds. He thought to himself that it must be the wings of the birds for the past few years that have brush on the same spot that causes the crack. This struck upon him that with perseverance, he will succeed in the meditation too. So he went back to the cave to meditate on Buddha Maitreya again.

Then another 3 years of retreat went pass(6th Year), he was not making any progress, again feeling dishearten, he decided to leave the cave. On the foot of the mountain, he saw a man polishing an iron bar with cloth.

Asanga asked him what was he doing, the man replied that he is going to make a Needle out of this iron bar. Asanga thought to himself that this man is totally ridiculous, however admiring his determination, Asanga was inspire that meditation will still be easier rather than making a needle out of an iron, and so he went back to the cave and meditate on Buddha Maitreya.

So another 3 years passed (9th year), still with no success, so he left the retreat again and this time he met another man who was brushing a soaked feather against the rock. Asanga ask him what was
he doing, the man reply that he is trying to corrode this big rock because it is preventing the sun to shine into his house. Feeling ashamed of his lack of determination and commitment, he thinks that anyway meditating on Buddha Matreiya will be much more easier. So he went back to his cave and meditate again.

Another 3 three years passed (12th year), still making no progress, feeling miserable and despair, he felt that due to his bad karma and obscuration, he decided to withdraw after his 12 year retreat. So he left the cave.

On the way, he found an injured dog with the lower part of the body covered with maggots. Deep compassion arose within him for both the dog and the maggots, in order not to kill the maggots, he close his eyes and use his tongue to lick up the maggots, immediately his tongue was touching the ground before he knew.

He open his eyes to see what happen and saw Buddha Maitreya right in front of him. Astonished, Asanga said, "For so many years, I have been meditating on you, why until do you appear before me ?"

Buddha Maitreya gently replied that he has always been beside him from the beginning,it was due to his many obscuration going around his mind and compassion that obstruct Asanga from seeing him. When Asanga genuine compassion arises for the dog, all these negativity are cleared.

Buddha Maitreya asked Asanga to carry him on his back to the city, Asanga asked around the people in the city what is he carrying, everyone replied saying there is nothing behind him. However a old lady responded that she saw Asanga carrying a injured Dog behind his back.

Therefore Buddha Maitreya explained that this old lady had recited a lot of 6 syllabus Mantra in her life(Mani Mantra), much of her obscuration are cleared. However there is still some lacking in her genuine compassion, that's why she cannot see my true form.

Aurore

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 06:08:43 PM »
Thanks for shedding some light y'all.

Yes, this is one good example. I can totally understand what Chogyam Trungpa's intentions and motivations are when we look at the bigger picture. At the end of the day, he still teaches Dharma and anyone who steps back and see the result, one can actually see this underlying good motivation.

What Biggyboy has shared brought up what I have heard from some Hindu friends before that sometimes, god likes to emanate as a beggar and appears to you begging for money so that we can practice generosity.

This brings me to think a Buddha emanating as a thief to rob all our attachments! hehe.
Highly possible isn't it?

Midakpa

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 09:20:05 AM »
I may be wrong but I look at it this way. All beings are by nature "Buddhas" in the sense that they are by nature pure and have the potential to become enlightened when they have removed their obscurations.

How can one remove one's obscurations or defilements? - By practising the Dharma and achieving the qualities of a Buddha. How can one practice? - With the beings around us. For example, if we are very miserly and greedy, how do we get rid of these defilements? - By being generous and overcoming our greed. Sometimes, we need experiences like loosing our fortune through theft or robbery or trickery etc. before we can realize that our wealth does not really belong to us anyway. When we have realizations, we will let go of our desires and attachments. In this way, the criminals (thieves, robbers, cheats etc) have benefited us through their actions.

In Samsara, we encounter all types of people and have all types of experiences. Some are beggars, some are insane and some are sick. They are all objects of our practice. We develop compassion and bodhicitta through the kindness of these people.

Are they emanations of Buddhas? Could be. But we can also choose to see all beings as Buddhas. In fact, this is the practice of some Bodhisattvas. 


dondrup

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 01:26:39 PM »
Why would a thief want to steal someone else’s things?  One reason is because the owner had stolen from the thief in the past!  If the owner has understood Karma, he should realise this and forgive the thief.  If the owner had compassion for the thief, he might want to help the thief further by giving away all the things the thief might want!  Nobody wants to be a thief.  The thief might be living in desperate and difficult living conditions with very little wealth or resources. This hardship might have led him to steal. The owner will experience suffering for losing the things he loved. If he realise impermanence, he will learn to let go of the stolen things. 

“… The sole purpose of Buddhas' emanation in any form is to help living beings...” In this context, Buddha’s emanation as a thief had created so much opportunities for the owner to realise Dharma! In this act of stealing alone, the owner can learn about Karma, compassion, generosity, detachment, impermanence, suffering of samsara – departing from the things we like, stealing as a non-virtue that brings suffering to others as well as ourselves.

pgdharma

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2012, 07:57:51 AM »
Buddha has great compassion which is completely impartial, embracing all living beings without discrimination. He benefits all living beings without exception by emanating various forms throughout the universe, and by bestowing his blessings on their minds. Through receiving Buddha’s blessings, all being, even the lowliest animals, sometimes develop peaceful and virtuous states of mind.

Buddhas can manifest as women or men, Buddhist or non-Buddhists, monarchs or tramps, law-abiding citizens or criminals. They can even manifest as animals, as wind or rain, or as mountains or islands.  They can emanate as inanimate objects such as bridges and roads in order to benefit others. So Buddha can emanate in a manner that can benefit others. Unless we are a Buddha our self we cannot possibly say who or what an emanation of a Buddha is as our perceptions may not be right.

dsiluvu

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2012, 02:48:45 PM »
When one's motivation is of the highest scope and purely to benefit others... and of course if you are an attained being like CHogyam Trungpa... every single act is done out of great compassion to awaken and benefit the other. I absolutely love stories of high Lamas and Mahasiddhas whose acts are at first questioned or shun upon to the normal society. They dare to be different and do whatever they can to bring benefit... definitely it is not out of getting popular votes, that's for sure. Don't forget our very own protector's previous incarnation was a Mahasiddha... who drank alcohol and did not want to pay.... and the story is here....http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/incarnation-lineage/mahasiddha-biwawa/

Biwawa came to another kingdom and entered a local tavern. He began to drink a lot of beer and wouldn’t stop drinking so the bartender demanded that he pay for his beer. At first he refused to pay but the bartender insisted. Biwawa held his hand aloft to the sky in a threatening mudra to stop the sun and said that he would pay for the beer only when the sun set. The sun stayed in the sky for days which created much chaos and distress among the people.

Subsequently, the King came and requested that he let the sun set and there was darkness for three days. By witnessing this display of Biwawa’s extraordinary powers, the people soon developed faith in him and the entire kingdom eventually entered the Buddhist path.

Aurore

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2012, 09:26:15 PM »
There are many stories of Kuan Yin manifesting as prostitutes and beautiful woman to attract those who are full of sexual desire. They are first caught by the bait of desire, and later led to the wisdom of the Buddha.

A bodhisattva such as Kuan Yin can engage in all kinds of "evil" activities while remaining in pure state. A bodhisattva can enter the brothels and cabarets and enact all the deadlines sins yet not be tainted by them.

Kuan Yin has appeared as beautiful woman to excite the King of Pleasure (Huan Hsi Wang) who had strong desires and did not believe in Buddhism. By using his sexual desire, she turned him to Buddhism and later became a protector of Buddhism. Kuan Yin has also turned Ma, a vicious man into a vegetarian and a true devotee by manifesting as a beautiful woman. In turn, Ma has turned his entire village into a land of goodness.

Big Uncle

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 04:21:27 AM »
We accrue karma not by the action but by the intent of the action. The intent of the action is determined by the previous actions the person has committed. Hence, a lazy person cannot change his reputation overnight with one day of working hard.

Hence, a Bodhisattva can benefit others even through stealing. If the Buddha as a Bodhisattva in a previous life could benefit others through killing, then a Bodhisattva could definitely benefit others through stealing. Haven't you heard of Robin Hood? Doesn't he steal from the rich and give to the poor? That's probably what a Bodhisattva emanation might do to benefit others.

Rihanna

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2012, 05:22:22 AM »
A Buddha’s emanations spontaneously appear wherever living beings’ minds are capable of perceiving them. The sole purpose of Buddhas' emanation in any form is to help living beings. Sometimes they manifest as Buddhists and sometimes as non-Buddhists. They can manifest as women or men, gods, kings, prostitutes, law-abiding citizens or criminals. They can even manifest as animals, as wind or rain, or as mountains or islands.

For example, it is said that the worldy Hindu god, Kali is an emanation of Palden Lhamo. My guess is some minds may need the help of a worldly god to grant them wishes and eventually help lead them towards the spiritual path.

However, for a negative emanation such thieves, I am puzzled with how such emanation can help someone? Any thoughts, anyone?


[Interesting topic Aurore. Remember the famous story of Buddha killing the thief on a ship for Buddha knew that the thief was to rob and kill all the passengers on board? Well, in that instance, Buddha manifested as a 'murderer'. The end result, the thief was saved from committing more negative actions that would have lead him to an uglier rebirth. I have also heard, in this age and time, of Lamas slapping a stranger out of the blue. The purpose is the Lama, through his clairvoyance knows  that person will be experiencing something very bad soon. The act of slapping was to create an affinity/a 'hook' with that person so that the Lama can help him in future. So I guess it is not the action but the motive/intent that is important. Of course, this only applies to the attained.]

Positive Change

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Re: Benefitting others by emanating as criminals
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 08:40:36 AM »
We accrue karma not by the action but by the intent of the action. The intent of the action is determined by the previous actions the person has committed. Hence, a lazy person cannot change his reputation overnight with one day of working hard.

Hence, a Bodhisattva can benefit others even through stealing. If the Buddha as a Bodhisattva in a previous life could benefit others through killing, then a Bodhisattva could definitely benefit others through stealing. Haven't you heard of Robin Hood? Doesn't he steal from the rich and give to the poor? That's probably what a Bodhisattva emanation might do to benefit others.

I find this interesting... So does this mean, because of the pure motivation, a Boddhisatva, though accruing negative karma, the good motivation outweighs the negative karma which means it becomes a "positive act"... Not that Boddhisatvas are above karma, it just makes it worthwhile to accept the negative karma in order to benefit others.

Am not sure if that came out right but that I would think is a Boddhisatva in a nutshell. Benefiting others above and beyond themselves.

My question is, would a Buddha who is beyond karma, experience the same thing? Every action of a Buddha is to benefit even though the method may seem "negative" in our non enlightened minds. Hence, if a Buddha "kills" for the benefit of others, where does the karma for the act of killing go to? Perhaps one could argue that a Buddha would not have the karma to be put in this "predicament"?

Then again, our good and bad actions are all a perception of our minds... the motivation behind our each action, good or bad which gives rise to the subtlety of negative or good karma.