Author Topic: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted  (Read 17892 times)

vajratruth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2012, 08:28:42 PM »
Regardless of what anyone may think about Dorje Shugden, whether the deity is an enlightened being as has been proven, or an evil spirit as alleged, it is actually a private matter for each individual practitioner to figure out and decide. Does anyone in the world disagree that each human being has a right to his/her own belief? Whatever you may think of Dorje Shugden, should not affect your opposition to the ban, and indeed any ban of a religious nature. Let me put it in another perspective, setting aside for the time being the nature of Dorje Shugden.

Let's instead approach the ban from a general perspective:

Ask yourselves the following question in relation to your own religion or belief (whatever it may be):

1. Whatever country you are in, will you accept it if you were to be forbidden from travelling abroad because you are a practicing a certain religion?

2. Whatever religion you may believe in, will you accept it if you were not allowed to hold a job in the government offices because of your religion? And if you have been in that job all your life, how would you feel if you were suddenly sacked because there is a shift in policy on the religion you have been practicing?

3. Can you accept it if your children and relatives were banned from attending state schools because of YOUR religious practice, not necessarily theirs?

4. How would you feel if someone was sick in your family but you were frightened to ask for medical help because people would find out what religion you have been practicing? Do you think it is fair for your [respective] government to withhold medical care from you and your family because of your religion?

5. Do you feel it is fair and right if people boycotted your business or profession just because you held certain beliefs?

6. How would you feel if your relatives and friends were encouraged to spy on you and report what you did just because of what you believed?

7. How would you take it if strangers came into your house uninvited and removed things that you hold most sacred? Will you accept it if people came into your own home and remove your statues of your God(s) and other symbols of your religion?

8. How do you think you will feel if you lost your pension and state benefits just because you were a Buddhist/ Christian/ Muslim/ Hindu/ Scientologist/ Sikh/ Jew etc ?

9. How would you react if your citizenship was removed because of the religion you practice?

10. How would you feel if you and your family were hunted down like criminals, with pictures of members of your family posted up in shops and public places because of your religion?

11. How would you feel if your own god or deity of your veneration suddenly became outlawed by your own government whom you elected into office?

These are simple questions that anyone can relate to and once you do, then it is easy for you to relate to the suffering the ban has wrought upon innocent practitioners of Dorje Shugden. If in your own world you have been enjoying relative peace and quiet in your own religious practice, it is because the basic principles of human rights have been applied to you. Imagine if it weren't so and you will very quickly understand the plight of Shugden practitioners.

That is why the ban should be lifted. And every good citizen in the world who values his/her right to his/her own religious practice should get involved and write to the CTA to stop this grave injustice. Please use the following link to obtain the right addresses to write to: (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.0)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 08:41:47 PM by vajratruth »

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 06:54:48 PM »

Shugden Ban is Illegal and Unconstitutional


Posted by admin on March 5, 2010 in Articles, The Controversy · 0 Comments

Legal References to support why the ban is unconstitutional
TIBETAN GOVERNMENT IN EXILE CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 17. Every Tibetan shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. The right includes freedom to openly believe, practise, worship and observe any religion either alone or in community with others.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA CONSTITUTION
[/size]

Adopted on: 26 Jan 1950

Preamble

WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:

JUSTICE, social, economic and political;

LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;

EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among them all FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation;

IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.


Article 15 Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth

(1) The State shall not discriminate against any citizen on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them.

Article 25 Freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion

(1) Subject to public order, morality and health and to the other provisions of this Part, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practice and propagate religion.
UNITED NATIONS DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Article 1

    Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have a religion or whatever belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.
    No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have a religion or belief of his choice.
    Freedom to manifest one’s religion or belief may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.


Article 2

    No one shall be subject to discrimination by any State, institution, group of persons, or person on the grounds of religion or other belief.
    For the purposes of the present Declaration, the expression “intolerance and discrimination based on religion or belief” means any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on religion or belief and having as its purpose or as its effect nullification or impairment of the recognition, enjoyment or exercise of human rights and fundamental freedoms on an equal basis.


Article 3

Discrimination between human being on the grounds of religion or belief constitutes an affront to human dignity and a disavowal of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and shall be condemned as a violation of the human rights and fundamental freedoms proclaimed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and enunciated in detail in the International Covenants on Human Rights, and as an obstacle to friendly and peaceful relations between nations.

From Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s Open Letter to H.H. the Dalai Lama, 9 December 1997:

    “Your ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden is a direct attack on religious freedom. This is against the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and also against the law in democratic countries such as the United States. You are also engaging in Deity discrimination, which breaks the constitutional law of India.”

Source: Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden website http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/dorjeshugden08.php


Is this loud and clear enough???

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-ban-is-illegal-and-unconstitutional/[/color]

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 07:39:16 AM »
The ban should also be lifted because of all the people that are being misled by the ban that the root and lineage Lamas of the Gelug tradition, the centerpieces of the lineage of Pabongkha Dorjechang, Trijang Dorjechang and Zong Dorjechang are not as worthy or as wise as they are because they practice Dorje Shugden. This is a very gross and misleading theory that they are circulating. The other really bad thing that they are circulating is that the idea of being nonsectarian is to practice everything from every lineage when possible, and when people actually do this they get very confused and gain no attainments from whatever Dharma practice they are doing. In a way, the ban is very destructive to the spirituality of many people.

DharmaSpace

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 01:58:59 PM »
i) If Dorje Shugden is really a spirit then the past 400 years there were no scholars, pandits high lamas who have any realisation whatsoever within the Gelugpa Tradition. Just look at the works of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Gangchen Lama etc etc.

ii) If Tibet is to be really, how can the very government who are trying to get a measure of independence or autonomy from China, resort to oppressing their own people. Oppression leads to more Oppression not FREEDOM.
OPPRESSION does not equal FREEDOM.

iii) By relying on Dorje Shugden who is a Buddha that is much better than relying on Nechung who is known universally as a spirit. Hence lifting the ban is another way of stopping Buddhism from degenerating into Spirit Worship.

DharmaSpace

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2012, 02:51:21 PM »
I addition to that I feel strongly that Dorje Shugden is extremely beneficial for the people who are oppressed and in downtrodden states. That Dorje Shugden really rescues such desperate beings from their neverending misery. Being an enlightened protector Dorje Shugden will help them short term and long term that is undeniable.

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2012, 11:18:19 AM »
I addition to that I feel strongly that Dorje Shugden is extremely beneficial for the people who are oppressed and in downtrodden states. That Dorje Shugden really rescues such desperate beings from their neverending misery. Being an enlightened protector Dorje Shugden will help them short term and long term that is undeniable.

there are many beings that are being endlessly oppressed and caught in a repeated cycle of suffering and they have no way to get out of it and Dorje Shugden, manifesting as a Dharma protector whose practitioners are being oppressed, shows his power and his compassion by supporting his practitioners and also beings that require a protector but cannot find any at the last hour. If the ban was lifted, more and more people would be able to benefit from Dorje Shugden but due to the ban, not many people are aware of his benefits or turn away from him when in reality they need him.

Gabby Potter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2015, 09:23:40 AM »
My reasons are:
- Yes, Dorje Shugden is an enlightened Buddha who can't be subdued and hence He will benefit millions of lives.
- Families, friends are separated because they can't practise Dorje Shugden and their society despises them just because they practise what they trust.
- There have been many cases of Shugden practitioners getting beaten up very badly. Where is the compassion? Where is the kindness that they are supposed to portray?

Please lift the ban and free the lives of your people.

VeronicaSmith

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2015, 03:35:38 PM »
In my opinion, the ban should be lifted because of the conflict spiritually and physically with the People of Tibet. Because spiritually, the monks and the Shugden followers were forced out of their faith and vows. The anti-Shugden people say that they did not force anybody, but they did and the followers were forced to break their vows and have their right to believe taken away from them. Also the followers are being discriminated in their own country by their own people and seen as criminals by their own country so I think that is cruel. So not only are the people being forced out of their beliefs, but they are being treated badly too.

That is why i think the bad should end, but do not talk badly about any of the spiritual teachers because they have their own ways and I will always have respect for The Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. Also it is known that some enlightened being sometimes appear as they are in conflict so you must pick which side you are more comfortable with and what you think is right and do not judge the other spiritual teacher. I still believe that the ban should go down soon though.

DharmaSpace

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2015, 08:39:45 AM »
The ban should be lifted as it has split Tibetan brother from brother, families and confusion abound for much of Tibetan society. That is one reason for me.

Another reason is I can't help but think that the Dalai Lama by enacting the ban has effectively helped many Gelug organisations, to be self sufficient, can hold their own and able to progress by themselves. At the cost of his reputation and standing in the world.  What other Tibetan buddhist organisations have faced so much problems and difficulty and yet despite it all emerged even stronger than ever. Not reliant on the Dalai Lama's fame and influence across the globe anymore, many of this Gelug organisations have faced down the threats from CTA and the Dalai Lama and grown... Something to ponder about?


pinecone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2015, 01:54:23 PM »
During this degenerate era, it is believed that people will be unable to attain enlightenment through the word of Buddha, and society will become morally corrupt. In Buddhist thought, during the time where Dharma is  declining , the teachings of the Buddha will still be correct, but people will no longer be capable of following them. Hence, full reliance on the Great King Protector will eliminate the suffering and pain for those who have the fortunate to encounter and follow the practice with faith. Why should anyone have doubts on the status of Dorje Shugden since there are countless testimonials from the many great masters i.e. Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche,  Zong Rinpoche  etc who have been in relying on this sacred practice for many life times and gain positive results.

prodorjeshugden

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • Email
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2017, 02:39:52 PM »
I find it quite quite confusing, how can the Dalai Lama promote peace and harmony on one side and create disharmony on the other side. 
Dorje Shugden is a fully enlightened Dharma protector, how could people mistake him for an unenlightened spirit? Many people have tried to destroy Dorje Shugden but all of them failed in vain. This can only mean two things either: Dorje Shugden is a fully enlightened Dharma protector and cannot be subdued or Dorje Shugden is a evil spirit that is even more powerful than the Buddhas(since he can't be subdued) If Dorje Shugden is a spirit that is even more powerful than the Buddhas then why do we still pray to them?

I really hope that the Dalai Lama can realize his mistakes, stop being a hypocrite and bring down the ban immediately to end the decades of suffering of Shugdenpa's. _/\_

Belinda Mae

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2017, 03:03:53 PM »
I really hope and pray that tue DS ban will end very soon as it has cause a lot of harm and suffering to the people who are innocent. The CTA is also misusing this ban to cover their selfish actions of not helping the Tibetans in exiled. They themselves have their own part to do and has nothing got to do with the ban. One is spiritual and another is political. These two does not gel.

Richardlaktam

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • Email
Re: Why The Ban Should Be Lifted
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2017, 06:06:12 PM »
I think, put aside the topic "Why the ban should be lifted", let's talk bout "Why is there a ban?". Why is there a ban? Dalai Lama said practicing Dorje Shugden will:
1) shorten his life
2) not free Tibet
3) go to 3 lower realm
4) Dorje Shugden is evil spirit
All these ever make sense at all??? I think if we put this in international debate everybody will point at Dalai Lama and laugh.
1) shorten Dalai Lama life
Dalai Lama is emanation of Chenrezig. If Dorje Shugden will shorten his life, that means he is not Chenrezig. Or, Dorje Shugden is more powerful than Chenrezig. Then what is so great about Dalai Lama and Tibetan Buddhism? In this case, Dalai Lama is slapping his own face and a big slap to Tibetan Buddhism. Yet, no proof that Dorje Shugden will shorten his life.
2) not free Tibet
Free Tibet or not free Tibet is not Dorje Shugden or Dalai Lama can say. In the first place, why China didn't want Tibet to independent? What did The Dalai Lama said before when he started to fight for Tibet independent? I think most of us didn't go to that..... Why China "hate" Dalai Lama so much? So, what Dorje Shugden has to do with free Tibet? Come on..... Dorje Shugden is a protector in Tibetan Buddhism, not President of China or King of Tibet or something. Don't simply drag Dorje Shugden into your filthy politic plays! Another doesn't make sense at all.
3) go to 3 lower realm
There are already many proves that High Lama who practiced Dorje Shugden has already reincarnated. Like, The 14th Dalai Lama own Guru - Trijang Rinpoche. So, again, where is the proof that practicing Dorje Shugden will go to 3 lower realm? In that case, Trijang Rinpoche already gone to 3 lower realm. Again, doesn't make sense.
4)  Dorje Shugden is evil spirit
This is similar to my first point. If Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit, fire puja couldn't stop him. Dalai Lama's own Guru, Trijang Rinpoche practice him. If Dalai Lama appear in front of me, I really wish to ask him,
"Dalai Lama, if your Guru practice evil spirit, you are his student, then what are you?". And,
"if your Guru was wrong, that means, all the teaching you got from him was wrong, then are you the real Dalai Lama or not?"
Again, Dalai Lama is slapping his own face. In the end, who bring disgrace to Tibetan Buddhism? If the Dorje Shugden ban still not lifted, there'll be more and more disgrace to Tibetan Buddhism and the very Dalai Lama himself.
Let's hope The Dalai Lama realize this, for sure he does! And lift the ban as soon as possible.