Author Topic: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama  (Read 5773 times)

DharmaDefender

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Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« on: June 25, 2012, 01:21:46 PM »
Came across this piece about censorship. Actually it was the titles reference to morals that caught my eye...

http://www.firstpost.com/world/censorship-in-china-is-morally-wrong-dalai-lama-355573.html

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Dharamsala: Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has criticised the Chinese government’s censorship policy as morally wrong and said 1.3 billion people of China have a right to know the reality.

“Totalitarian regimes like China’s have for several decades depended far too much on cruelty, so fear and distrust are part of their atmosphere. This is why they try to conceal reality,” the Nobel Peace laureate said.

“The 1.3 billion Chinese have a right to know the reality of their situation and they have the ability on that basis to judge right from wrong. For this reason, censorship and restricting people’s movements are morally wrong and limit their creativity,” he said in an interview with a magazine in Scotland Saturday, according to a post on the Central Tibetan Administration website here.

The Tibetan leader remarked: “This approach is short-sighted and has to change. Prime Minister Wen Jiabao too has spoken about the need for change and even democracy in China.

On the issue of Tibet, he said: “We are conducting a non-violent struggle in the spirit of reconciliation. It is worth supporting, because it must succeed. Our failure will support those who argue that you can only achieve your goals through force and violence.”

He said self-immolations by Tibetans was very sad but showed a commitment to non-violence. “However, they are a clear sign of desperation.”

The Dalai Lama along with many of his supporters fled Tibet and took refuge in India when Chinese troops moved in and took control of Lhasa in 1959.


I agree with the man. Censorship is wrong- the powerhouses of this world dont subscribe to tough media censorship laws because freedom of expression and thought are crucial to nations development. Although I gotta say, I wish His Holiness opinions on media censorship applied to us Dorje Shugden practitioners...

Its never made sense to me for the CTA and Tibetans  to ostracise Dorje Shugden practitioners. Surely in a struggle for independence, youd want as many people on your side as possible? Not watch them burn or encourage them to do so, or segregate them from the mainstream movement? Kind of weird...we wouldnt make such a fuss about our practice, and instead direct our energy towards independence if we were allowed to.

Oh and has anyone noticed that His Holiness has been aligning himself more and more with the Chinese recently? Calling Mao his father and whatnot? Doesnt anyone find that strange? What do you think hes getting at? Do you think His Holiness is making people less and less hostile towards the Chinese so that they open themselves up to Chinese help and development? Could that be a way to get Dorje Shugden back into the Tibetan mainstream again?

And one last thing Your Holiness, umm I dont know if youve seen videos of self-immolations but their not very non-violent :(

Big Uncle

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 04:45:12 PM »
Well, did Prime Minister Wen Jia Bao really said that there is a need for democracy in China? That's so cool! I think it is very viable for China to transition itself to democracy although probably not like what we see here in the West.

If China is seriously thinking of democracy and its not just talk, then it should look towards incorporating the best of its current government structure and fuse it with democratic elements. After all, the government should be made to suit the people and that's pretty much what communism is all about.

Anyway, as for censorship, I think it would be good too if China slowly relinquish some of its tight censorship rulings because that would not be good in the long run. People feed on information and even right now, there is just so many ways that the wealthy Chinese can bypass the online restrictions. I think it would be good for society for less restrictions on information as they are able to access it another anyway.

The Dalai Lama is saying these things with hopes that it will spur social change in China. Notice how much emphasis the Dalai Lama is giving to China. It's time is here and now. China will continue its ascent as a global economic superpower that will rival the United States and eventually bypassing. So, it would be good if censorship is lowered so it would be easier to spread the Dharma into China and from China, it will springboard all over the world.

Klein

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 05:49:59 PM »
Well, did Prime Minister Wen Jia Bao really said that there is a need for democracy in China? That's so cool! I think it is very viable for China to transition itself to democracy although probably not like what we see here in the West.

If China is seriously thinking of democracy and its not just talk, then it should look towards incorporating the best of its current government structure and fuse it with democratic elements. After all, the government should be made to suit the people and that's pretty much what communism is all about.

Anyway, as for censorship, I think it would be good too if China slowly relinquish some of its tight censorship rulings because that would not be good in the long run. People feed on information and even right now, there is just so many ways that the wealthy Chinese can bypass the online restrictions. I think it would be good for society for less restrictions on information as they are able to access it another anyway.

The Dalai Lama is saying these things with hopes that it will spur social change in China. Notice how much emphasis the Dalai Lama is giving to China. It's time is here and now. China will continue its ascent as a global economic superpower that will rival the United States and eventually bypassing. So, it would be good if censorship is lowered so it would be easier to spread the Dharma into China and from China, it will springboard all over the world.

Democracy is not perfect either. With due respect to India, it is a democratic country but look at her results. China far surpasses India. Communism has helped China in many ways. It's totalitarian government served the country and it's huge population very well, in general. Without it, the Chinese would still be wallowing in their poverty trying to out vote each other, as in the case with India.

I believe China will slowly ease the censorship. Just like how China was criticised for controlling the Chinese currency and not having an open market. I believe China is doing her best to protect the country and her citizens' interests. Sudden "freedom" may have adverse repercussions to the country.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 06:54:55 PM »
I don’t think China will be releasing its grip so soon though.  China has 2 great walls: the Great Wall of China, and China's giant network of internet censors – the Great Firewall of China.  This Great Firewall uses several tools.

All internet traffic into China passes through a small number of gateways, giving the government a chance to control the information.  Sometimes Beijing will block access to a site that has been blacklisted by the government. The authorities may also prevent the look-up of certain domain names, thus causing a "site not found" error message on the user's screen.

There are also other more subtle ways to censor, for example by filtering posts with prohibited keywords on the country's social media platforms and erasing comments shortly after they have been posted on microblogging sites.  In fact, Sina Weibo, a Twitter-like service with 300 million users, has been under increasing government pressure in recent months to more aggressively censor its content. It has recently rolled out a new set of guidelines that forbids posting material that is considered “untrue,” “harms national unity,” or “destroys societal stability,” among other things.

In March, Beijing introduced new rules requiring all of the country's microblog users to register using their own names, in an effort to better control what is being posted online. But many of the country's microblog services have struggled to enforce the rule.

Recently, China's censors blocked internet access to the terms "six four", "23", "candle" and "never forget",  in an effort to silence talk about the 23rd anniversary of the bloody 4th June crackdown on pro-democracy protesters.

So I guess the Great Firewall will still stand strong like the Great Wall of China for now :P

WisdomBeing

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 08:33:04 PM »
I love that analogy of the great firewall of China!

Back to the topic, I just wanted to play devil’s advocate. I think censorship is not necessarily morally wrong if done properly. In fact lack of censorship can be morally wrong. Gosh this sounds like an essay at school! Is censorship morally wrong? Discuss.

Anyway I digress.

I have always thought that there is no real freedom of the press. In England, many people think that there is tremendous freedom but yet, as I have mentioned on other threads, in England, we have banned books (which is a surefire way to get into the best sellers’ list).

With great freedom comes great responsibility. Unfortunately, many journalists have not focused on the latter quality that is needed in order for the first quality to come through.

I think that with censorship, we literally have to walk the middle path. There must be censorship for the greater good (of course very subjective, ie everything China wants to censor, the authorities believe that they are for the greater good, right) yet there must also be freedom of expression – without prejudice and without direct or indirect harm inflicted due to that freedom.

The sign of a mature society is how much individual freedoms we enjoy.

And yes of course I have to bring up the fact that the Dalai Lama can criticise that censorship in China is morally wrong, yet the Dalai Lama inflicts tremendous hardship on his people who are Dorje Shugden practitioners. Now, -  that - I think is morally wrong.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

vajratruth

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 07:40:49 AM »
If HHDL is against censorship, then he must be for freedom of speech and information. That being the case, HHDL need to explain why on the one hand he is an advocate of freedom of speech and on the other, he is responsible for one the most outrageous crimes against the right to exercise one’s freedom of religion.

What HHDL did with the ban on Dorje Shugden not only fly in the face of the UN Charter that provides for the freedom to practice one’s belief, but also go squarely against, not only Tibet’s Constitution but also India’s Constitution.

Is it not MORE immoral to persecute and oppress people based on their beliefs than to block one from accessing information freely?

In addition, I do not necessarily agree that censorship is wrong per se. Recent scandals in the UK surrounding Rupert Murdoch’s News International must surely raise concerns of how an entity with the so much power to influence people was left uncontrolled and more to the point, how the information managed to hit the mass public unchecked.

It is interesting to note HHDL’s statement: “We are conducting a non-violent struggle in the spirit of reconciliation”. The only non-violent struggle that is taking place is that of Dorje Shugden practitioners against the unlawful and downright immoral ban. The hope is to reconcile all Sangha members and yes, HHDL is correct…we will succeed.

Ensapa

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 10:00:20 AM »
My first thought on this piece of news is that, that's rich coming from Dalai Lama because he implemented the ban on Dorje Shugden and distorted information and attempted to silence lamas who opposed the ban by expulsion, threats and strong worded statements. Also, he did not do anything about the different lineages who attempt to silence the talk of Dorje Shugden in their own lineage. Many of my Nyingma and Kagyu friends tell me that their lamas ordered them not to talk about Dorje Shugden as even mentioning his name can bring bad luck. If that is not censorship, then what is? It makes absolutely no sense for the Dalai Lama to speak out against China's censorship when he does absolutely nothing about Tibet's censorship. And dont forget the fact that anyone who expresses even slight discontentment about the CTA in Dharamsala is perceived as going against the government and is punishable, as according to TK's account here on the amount of censorship that CTA observes in Dharamsala. After reading this, would HHDL's statement on China's censorship not sound like an ironic joke rather than a request?

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So peaceful or any protests about taboo subjects such as the Tibetan Govt's corruption, inability to get autonomy for Tibet, biasness, Dorje Shugden IS NOT ALLOWED. The Tibetan Govt in Exile's definition of Democracy is very different to say the least. Actually everything is handpicked and chosen by the Dalai Lama himself. Even the abbots of each Sera, Drepung, Gaden, Gyuto, Gyurme, Namgyal, Nechung are all chosen directly by the Dalai Lama himself. All the abbots these days MUST FALL IN LINE WITH HIS POLICIES OR THEY WILL BE ASKED TO REMOVE THEMSELVES AS IN THE CASES OF THE PREVIOUS ABBOTS OF BOTH GADEN SHARTSE AND JANGTSE. Hence the 101st Gaden Tripa defected to Shar Gaden Monastery AFTER HIS 7 YEAR TERM AS TRIPA ENDED.

Protests against pervailing policies by Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt are a ABSOLUTE NO-NO. Clear example is no one is allowed within Tibetan community to say 'When I grow up I wish to be the president, next Dalai Lama or Prime Minister' as that would be tantamount to treason. Hence, they have a huge dilemma. The Dalai Lama has been in power for the last 50+ years. No one is allowed to be groomed to be the next leader, because it is inconcievable another person can be or allowed to replace the Dalai Lama. Only his 'enlightened' rule can save Tibet. The irony is that Tibet has lost it's country and not getting it back in the near future. Buddhists would believe it is the karmic fate of the country and that is what I believe. But having said  that, many would also say, other countries like the G-7 are run by democratically elected heads and they are doing fine. So why isn't Tibet doing fine??


http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=588.msg4257#msg4257

With all due respect HHDL, tell me again why do you think China's censorship is wrong and your censorship is right? If your main motivation to censor CTA and Dharamsala from speaking about certain topics is for the sake of Tibet's unity and stability, and also so that everyone can work for a common cause, that would be the exact same reason why China is implementing their censorship...so why is the pot calling the kettle black? Shouldnt HHDL actually try to do something about the censorship in Dharamsala first before actually saying something like that? This does not include the censorship that is already present in the other traditions where it is forbidden to even mention Dorje Shugden's name. If they really believe in Guru Rinpoche and their protectors, why is it that they do not believe that it is enough protection for them against Dorje Shugden and you guys have to resort to such measures to protect yourselves and prevent your disciples from finding out the truth about Dorje Shugden because its just insecurity at play and nothing spiritual.

The excuse that Dorje Shugden is a 'religious' issue will not hold water for long for the world and it is only a matter of time before more people start to do their own investigations and discover the truth behind Dorje Shugden and all of the shameful things the CTA did such as banning certain high lamas from incarnating and accusing them of nasty things not because of anything else but because the CTA wanted their wealth as their own. Then there are the discriminations against Dorje Shugden practitioners, surpression of the other traditions pre 1959 and also the lack of democracy and a judicial system. CTA will have nowhere to stand once the world discovers these "secrets". By that time, no amount of censorship, propaganda or lies can protect CTA's reputation anymore.

dsiluvu

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2012, 02:51:42 PM »
The Dalai Lama talks and criticised the Chinese government’s censorship policy as morally wrong??? But censorship of Dorje Shugden is not morally wrong??? This I find quite contradictory and funny. Where is the FREE OF SPEECH for Dorje Shugden practitioners? Up untill now HHDL still refuses dialog with Shugden practitioners who just wants to find a peaceful way to co-exist in harmony.

I don't think censorship has got anything to do with morals. In fact it could be morally correct. It all depends on the motivation behind it all. If it is deemed better for the nation, then why not. I don't think democracy would work in China's 1.3billion population and I tend to agree with Klein that in a certain way, communism has benefited China as a whole. Perhaps they will be like Singapore? A country that calls themselves a "democratic" society & government but is managed like a communist government. Perhaps this would be their approach if ever China becomes Democratic.

 

Tammy

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2012, 03:14:08 PM »
Clap clap clap!!! While you are criticizing the China Government for imposing censorship onto Tibetans, much respected HHDL, have you not done the same to your fellow shanga members and lay person ?? No? Let me remind you -- does the word Dorje Shugden ring a bell deep at the bottom of your mind???

Banning the practise is uncalled for, to further marginalized the strong believers is totally crazy. We pray hard that you are able to left the ban... Please , its time to undo whatevern's wrong!!!
Down with the BAN!!!

dsiluvu

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2012, 03:19:00 PM »
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Oh and has anyone noticed that His Holiness has been aligning himself more and more with the Chinese recently? Calling Mao his father and whatnot? Doesnt anyone find that strange? What do you think hes getting at? Do you think His Holiness is making people less and less hostile towards the Chinese so that they open themselves up to Chinese help and development? Could that be a way to get Dorje Shugden back into the Tibetan mainstream again?


Oh yes this is definitely something very obvious... how HHDL has suddenly change His tune towards China. Hmmm wonder why? Sure is interesting... looks like His Holiness is trying to get friendly and start creating good relations with China. Perhaps He realised this is the only way He could probably get the chance of some kind of dialogue going.

I can't help but wonder if all those Letters that was sent from our dear admin here http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10541  has got any influence towards this sudden change in His Holiness tone. Perhaps?

I do agree that Tibetans do need help from China in terms of welfare and social development but I do not think it would be so easy for Dorje Shugden practice to be mainstream again in Dharamsala, don't think HHDL will be the one lifting the BAN.

But mainstream in China... very possible. Just a weird funny thought... wouldn't it be funny if HHDL finally gets to have dialogue with Wen Jia Bao and starts talking about Dorje Shugden and how bad it is for Tibetans hence China should stop the Tibetans from practising this "demonic cult" Dorje Shugden. 
Gosh China would probably immediately implement DS in all temples and monastery effectively. Maybe learn about Dorje Shugden history in schools as well.

Just a wild thought!

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Censorship in China is morally wrong: Dalai Lama
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2015, 07:36:34 AM »
Will some highly revered and esteem Being be contradictory between what he says and what he does.

Read this and make a logical conclusion.