Author Topic: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?  (Read 24172 times)

diablo1974

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2012, 07:42:25 AM »
If it is to spread the practice of Dorje Shugden, especially in China, the catalyst of growth in this era. Has anyone stepped into china to collect statistics? If there are DS supporters , there are also anti-DS chinese in China, the chinese government hates DL but not all the chinese hates him. The chinese called DL ??in the buddhist community instead of ??which is commonly used outside the buddhist community.
I am not in the position to give any conclusion but personally I do not believe DS is a spirit or demon or else he wouldnt be a fan of the Buddhas.

Positive Change

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2012, 02:22:13 PM »
For me the ban in itself is neither positive nor negative... it is but a means to an end. At the onset of the ban, we can clearly see how far and wide the practice is spreading... Yes there are "negative" aspects to the ban too but when the positive aspects of the goals are realized the negativity associated with it WILL melt away.

Suffering is prevalent around us less we forget we are in samsara... but does it mean we forget or neglect the suffering, no! But remind ourselves it is a necessary "evil" in order for there to be a strong enough statement to be made. In samsara exist the positive with the negative... most times co existing together within the same choice, the ban being one of them. The many choices in our lives are laden with such "predicaments". It is how we balance the two with the correct motivation which wins out in the end.

What is the point of a "cause" no one hears of or is aware of? The HYPE and with proper strategies are required and for me personally this is precisely what the Ban is... The ban I believe serves as the "advertisement" and the product is Dorje Shugden. We all know in this day and age, nothing sells better than negative press. Precisely why tabloids devoid of complete truth but with sensationalism added are thriving! So why should spreading Dorje EFFECTIVELY be any different? The eventual results that fruition will be good and hence we need not dwell on the temporal! That is my thought on this and I sincerely believe the positive outweighs the negative in the long run!


hope rainbow

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2012, 06:54:43 AM »
For me the ban in itself is neither positive nor negative... it is but a means to an end. At the onset of the ban, we can clearly see how far and wide the practice is spreading... Yes there are "negative" aspects to the ban too but when the positive aspects of the goals are realized the negativity associated with it WILL melt away.

Suffering is prevalent around us less we forget we are in samsara... but does it mean we forget or neglect the suffering, no! But remind ourselves it is a necessary "evil" in order for there to be a strong enough statement to be made. In samsara exist the positive with the negative... most times co existing together within the same choice, the ban being one of them. The many choices in our lives are laden with such "predicaments". It is how we balance the two with the correct motivation which wins out in the end.

What is the point of a "cause" no one hears of or is aware of? The HYPE and with proper strategies are required and for me personally this is precisely what the Ban is... The ban I believe serves as the "advertisement" and the product is Dorje Shugden. We all know in this day and age, nothing sells better than negative press. Precisely why tabloids devoid of complete truth but with sensationalism added are thriving! So why should spreading Dorje EFFECTIVELY be any different? The eventual results that fruition will be good and hence we need not dwell on the temporal! That is my thought on this and I sincerely believe the positive outweighs the negative in the long run!

Dear Positive Attitude, I like what you wrote here.
In fact samsara never offers us any better choice than a lesser evil.

- Be vegetarian does not equate with no killing, for bugs are killed in the process
BUT it is better than direct killing of beings in order to eat them = Lesser Evil.

- I must punish my children and make them cry sometimes
BUT if I don't do that they'll cry even more and without guidance as adults = Lesser Evil.

- The ban brings about many problems and suffering
BUT it is better than no ban because without it Dorje Shugden would remain an esoteric Dharma protector = Lesser Evil.

In fact, the choice of words is not very good when we say lesser "EVIL", for really this "evil" is not true evil, for the motivation is virtuous and it does help at least medium term, sometimes only long term, so there is no evil here.
But the fact remains that even if it is not evil per say, some beings will suffer in the process.


Big Uncle

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2012, 01:32:57 PM »
I think it is very subjective at this point to say that the positive outweighs the negative. The ban has tremendous impact upon the daily lives of thousands of practitioners across the world, especially in the monastery. Relationships, friendships and families has been shattered and countless lives has been lost. The sufferings of Dorje Shugden Lamas, monastic and lay practitioners is tremendous.

However, the sufferings inflicted by the ban on Dorje Shugden has a blessing in disguise. The publicity generated on this deity, there are incredible amount of people that are hearing and gaining the incredible blessings of Dorje Shugden. So, does the positive truly outweigh the negative? Only time will tell and the incredible hard work of Dorje Shugden Lamas are tipping the scale. They are making something positive out of the negative especially in China. Their mission is just to uphold the lineage and nothing else.

Positive Change

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2012, 01:55:19 PM »
I think it is very subjective at this point to say that the positive outweighs the negative. The ban has tremendous impact upon the daily lives of thousands of practitioners across the world, especially in the monastery. Relationships, friendships and families has been shattered and countless lives has been lost. The sufferings of Dorje Shugden Lamas, monastic and lay practitioners is tremendous.

However, the sufferings inflicted by the ban on Dorje Shugden has a blessing in disguise. The publicity generated on this deity, there are incredible amount of people that are hearing and gaining the incredible blessings of Dorje Shugden. So, does the positive truly outweigh the negative? Only time will tell and the incredible hard work of Dorje Shugden Lamas are tipping the scale. They are making something positive out of the negative especially in China. Their mission is just to uphold the lineage and nothing else.

If we look at the moment, sure it seems like it is subjective. However, I believe the positive outweighs the negative. I do not discount the many thousand of lives disrupted by the ban but on the flip side of the coin there are tens of thousands more benefiting from the spread of the practice because of the awareness the ban creates! On that point alone, for me is a tremendous plus.

And if we truly believe in karma, it is not the ban that has created the suffering of the people affected but their individual and collective karma that has resulted in them suffering at this moment in time. I truly believe in that and is by no means belittling the suffering but merely putting it in perspective.

dsiluvu

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2012, 02:17:13 PM »
I do not know if the positive outweighs the negative... but we can clearly see that it is changing from negative in to positive!

I guess this is something like tantra and how enlightened minds react to any negative situation. We are taught in Buddhism that it is not our negative karma that lessens or increases when we take refuge and start practicing Dharma... but rather we can handle the situations and problems that are thrown at us better. We deal with the negativities better, and hence change the situation around to a positive one and in this case... well we can see Dorje Shugden continue to spread throughout China and the world :) So this aspect we can rejoice and we can gain strength and courage to continue of practice.

Definitely we cannot disregard all the suffering that has arised from this aweful Ban and the Dharma brothers and sisters, sangha and family thorn a part just because they choose to follow their own GURU and do their practice which is in their family line for generations, they were ostracized and became society's outcast. So what we can do in remembering their struggles, in showing them our support, to tell them Hey they are NOT ALONE and We hear their cries... is to continue to promote and educate as many people as we can about our protector's practise and to correct those wrong views if there is any that comes along the way.

Heck a friend of mine in the West... blatantly told me they could not careless about the Ban and the non- existing Tibetan politics as there are so many more bigger world issues to focus on... and if Dorje Shugden is good and it helps people... what's the big deal. So lets share the benefits of Dorje Shugden practice and who he is to everyone! How? Well...

One fabullous way would be by getting the 1st ever Dorje Shugden Graphic Novel in the World!
The graphic novel is available to you ENTIRELY FOR FREE. We only request that you in your compassion bring the practice of this Protector, and share this graphic novel with others is what this wonderful site has provided us with. http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=9832/

Here are some ways you can spread the world’s first Dorje Shugden graphic novel:

?Gift it to your teacher
?Print copies for your friends
?Introduce it to your Dharma centre
?Teach it in a Dharma class
?Donate copies to your local library
?Analyse it in a world religions class
?Get your favourite bookshop to stock it
?Send copies to your neighbours
?Translate it and email it to your friends abroad
?Link it on your website
?Share it on Facebook or Twitter
?Read it with your kids

Ensapa

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2012, 02:49:40 PM »
In terms of getting China to practice Dorje Shugden and awakening and provoking their Dharma seeds, and also exposing people who are not sincere in their Dharma practice and treat it like a political game, and also raise out the underlying issues of jealousy against Gelugpa in the other lineages, and also test the courage and strength of Dorje Shugden practitioners, the Dorje Shugden ban has done a wonderful job.

In terms of protecting the delusion and illusion that Buddhism is a peaceful religion, that there are no problems within Buddhism, that people who are Buddhists actually act in accordance with the Buddha's teaching, that is to investigate things before believing in them, and to actually not make a political game out of situations, and harming others in the name of the ban, then yes, the ban has failed and has negative repercussions.

But what I do see here is the bigger picture where more people actually benefit from the ban as opposed to not having the ban. The Tibetans in China who practice Dorje Shugden are protected and promoted by the government of China, while those that are not are subjected to many difficulties and problems. Naturally this will cause the people to pray to Dorje Shugden more.

On the other hand it also makes Dorje Shugden practitioners more resilient than before and it also helps them become stronger in their Dharma practice. Dharma protectors are not around to give us wealth and assistance, but also to help train us up so that we can benefit more people. I have a feeling that the ban will prepare Dorje Shugden practitioners to do more and increase their power and resolve for something bigger...

Gabby Potter

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2015, 08:08:49 AM »
I agreed to what tsangpakarpo said in the first paragraph, His Holiness the Dalai Lama has enforced the ban with reasons that we normal human being may not understand now, but we must always have faith in His Holiness. Regarding the statement " Positive outweighs negative ", I think it depends on individual perspectives, people who take this matter negatively they will definitely think otherwise. In short, no matter what the outcome is, we must still do whatever we can to lift the ban as soon as possible.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2015, 04:34:20 PM »
I totally agree that Dalai Lama being Chenrizig can never be understood by a mere mortal like me.  But my logical mind speaks that if the Dalai Lama does not have the ban and propitiates Dorje Shugden, the spread of DS worshippers will be much more than now.

However, when viewing the Illustrated Story of Dorje Shugden, it was also told that when Dorje Shugden arose as the protector a black cloud like a hand was over Lhasa and as such there was tremendous natural disaster.  My understanding is that happened as a purification of the negative karma of having murdered a High Lama like Tulku Drakpa Geylsten.

Could the suffering occurring with the Ban be another great purification that we are going through as a compassionate act of the highly attained beings.

These are my thoughts but having said that and given adequate good reason for the suffering inflicted on Shugdenpas, I still think that the Ban being more positive than negative does not jive.

grandmapele

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2015, 07:27:37 AM »
Whoa, dslucky you are really laying it down. Seen from that angle, i tend to agree with you. I the Dalai Lama has not given China a loophole to up the ante on the Dalai Lama, DS would not spread as it did. Really, all your points are valid. Agreed.

lotus1

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2015, 06:41:11 PM »
I agreed with dslucky, dondrup and vajratruth that this ban is for a bigger picture as all seems like planned and a play. With this ban, more people has get to know Dorje Shugden and Dharma as such people in the China as well as people in the west.
Recently there is an article “Thanks to the Dalai Lama” (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/thanks-to-the-dalai-lama-2/) that also highlighted some points that thanks to the Dalai Lama’s ban that the Dorje Shugden practitioners are more united and the people who are left practicing DS are also putting their practice into higher level with action especially on being more devoted to Guru and the lineage despite having all the obstacles and problems. It is also seems like creating another wave for wide spreading of Dharma in this degeneration age with all the right conditions such as the readiness of the high lama such as Trijang Rinpoche in his mature age to spread the pure lineage of DS and Tsongkhapa to all, the International Shugden Community, the dorjeshugden.com website,  as well as the monasteries with more teachers that upholding the lineage of DS and Tsongkhapa.

kelly

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Re: The Ban - Positive outweighs negative?
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2015, 05:49:01 AM »
I think the ban is nessarry with the ban it help to release a lot of suffering of the people who live in TIbet because China has strongly support the DS practice because of the practice China has paid more attention in rebuilding TIbet so in directly the ban has bring some benefits to the people in Tibet. Secondly because of the ban there more people in world more interested to find out more about DS practice so indirectly there be more people will benefits from this practice. So the ban do is not really a bad thing.