Author Topic: Tulkus highlighted in the British news  (Read 16146 times)

triesa

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2012, 09:16:43 AM »
Holding vows are essential to Dharma practice....

That's all that needs to be said.  I rest my case that simply shagging one's students and indulging in worldly pleasures to excess (to premature death!) does not make a Mahasiddha, because if it did, ordinary beings with raging attachment would be Mahasiddhas.

Well the tulkus system is very much debatable. But whether you believe in the tulku system or not, the best is to see the RESULTS. For example of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, even he has 7 wives and many other affairs, we cannot deny the dharma imprints he has left on his students/wives.  Many of them are are even dharma teachers now and sincere dharma practitioners.

If you have seen the video of the funeral of Chogyam Trungpa, a rainbow appeared in the clear blue sky when his body was cremated. All his students witnessed this. Definitely this is a clear sign that he is an attained being.

Many roads lead to Rome, imagine if Chogyam Trungpa had not acted the way he has had, where would these students of the 70's hippies be now? Would they still be in drugs? Overdozed? Committed suside?

We can judge based on our own perception, experience and culture, but lets take a look at the RESULTS....

Sorry to say, how would a tulku talk to a bunch of hippies? Is it by sitting on a high throne and reciting mantras and prayers? Would that work at that time? I myself think Chogyam Trungpa's method is superb, he behaved like one of his students....it is almost like a spy who infiltrated into their society in order to bring dharma at their level.

At the rate the world is degenerated where everything is about attachement, lust, jealousy and instant gratification, I believe more tulkus will manifest even more "crazy" wisdom - as appeared to our eyes-  to tame the untamable.

Ensapa

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2012, 04:15:30 PM »
Tulkus are basically emanations of the Buddha and they manifest enlightened activity. However, not all Tulkus are powerful enough to manifest such activity, perhaps due to the fact that their students have very heavy bad karma, or that the environmental conditions are not conducive for them to manifest correctly. In most cases they have to be trained properly.

Some tulkus come with special abilities but they can go the wrong way if they are not trained or controlled properly as they can misuse them and cause harm instead of benefit. I have heard of a story of a tulku in Ganden who was not trained properly, but he had the gift of speech and can talk almost anyone into doing anything. He misused it for his own amusement as he's became uncontrollable as he entered the monastery at a late age, during his teens where he is no longer trainable.

On the other hand, a trained tulku can manifest in ways that we cannot understand or imagine. We cannot always put them in a mold and say that if they do not fit this mold, they are not enlightened or whatever it is. Since they are emanations of the Buddha and most of them do display clear activity, to disrespect a recognized one would be really negative karma.

Also, since when did Tsongkhapa teach that there's only one road to salvation and enlightenment and if you dont follow that, you're doomed and you're wrong? He merely stated that for ordinary beings like us, holding vows is very important. So if other mahasiddhas do not need to follow the vows and we call them bad because they dont fit into our narrow mold, congrats, we just broke the Bodhisattva vows.

Big Uncle

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2012, 09:44:26 AM »
I watched the movie Tulku. I must say, I don't like the movie at all. They are clearly not enlightened at all and one of the western Tulkus in the movie said that he is not a Buddhist but he would attend Buddhist ceremonies and would give blessings and khata offerings because it makes the monks happy. Most of the Western Tulkus look lost and have very little Dharma to share except their own identity crisis.

Even the director, Gesar Mukpo does not have anything substantial to say and the movie ends with him hugging his family. At the end of the movie, it makes me feel depressed and even less faith in Tulkus. These Tulkus are clearly not attained but have incredible Dharma seeds and if they are not trained and grounded in the Dharma from early on, they become lost and confused. I don't think any of them will become a Dharma teacher because most of them are not even studying the Dharma or have a teacher that is guiding them right now.

The most promising Tulku was one boy recognized by Chagdud Tulku because he spoke with a lot of devotion of his Guru. The others were silent about any teachers they have ever had before. He is all grown up and has found his way to Nepal to study Tibetan. He is trying to find his way to learn more but has incredible doubts about his recognition.

Thank Dorje Shugden, we have great young Tulkus like Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche who are shining examples in our tradition. I have no doubt that the young Domo Geshe Rinpoche would grow up to be a great example as well. Even, the wayward Lama Osel is seen giving teachings again. That's a good sign I think.

I don't have the wisdom to perceive, perhaps these Western Tulkus are manifesting something but conventionally, they don't seem to inspire very much and in fact sows more doubts in the Tulkus to me. 

Ensapa

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2012, 01:06:08 PM »
I watched the movie Tulku. I must say, I don't like the movie at all. They are clearly not enlightened at all and one of the western Tulkus in the movie said that he is not a Buddhist but he would attend Buddhist ceremonies and would give blessings and khata offerings because it makes the monks happy. Most of the Western Tulkus look lost and have very little Dharma to share except their own identity crisis.

Even the director, Gesar Mukpo does not have anything substantial to say and the movie ends with him hugging his family. At the end of the movie, it makes me feel depressed and even less faith in Tulkus. These Tulkus are clearly not attained but have incredible Dharma seeds and if they are not trained and grounded in the Dharma from early on, they become lost and confused. I don't think any of them will become a Dharma teacher because most of them are not even studying the Dharma or have a teacher that is guiding them right now.

The most promising Tulku was one boy recognized by Chagdud Tulku because he spoke with a lot of devotion of his Guru. The others were silent about any teachers they have ever had before. He is all grown up and has found his way to Nepal to study Tibetan. He is trying to find his way to learn more but has incredible doubts about his recognition.

Thank Dorje Shugden, we have great young Tulkus like Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche who are shining examples in our tradition. I have no doubt that the young Domo Geshe Rinpoche would grow up to be a great example as well. Even, the wayward Lama Osel is seen giving teachings again. That's a good sign I think.

I don't have the wisdom to perceive, perhaps these Western Tulkus are manifesting something but conventionally, they don't seem to inspire very much and in fact sows more doubts in the Tulkus to me.

I have watched that movie as well and most of the western tulkus appear like they are trying very hard to adapt to modern society and their culture rather than learning or teaching the Dharma. Most of them look torn between having to study the Dharma and at the same time fit into modern society which can be quite shallow and unforgiving. It is understandable that most of them grew up in an unfamiliar environment and they are still finding their way around it.

It is a very well known fact that most western Buddhists have somewhat an unhealthy and unnatural fascination with tulkus, and that they are powerful, what they say is always right because they're this reincarnate Buddha and they must be holy and they MUST carry on the work of their previous life and carry on the work of the predecessors...and these western tulkus are rebelling against that.

The common theme between all of the western tulkus are that, they were forced to train in the traditional Buddhist methods AGAINST THEIR WILL. Nobody said that they were happy to run back to the monastery and eat their tsampa and study their texts, they all said it was very difficult to switch between the expectations of western society and their Tibetan obligations.

More and more young tulkus are breaking off from tradition. Singa Rinpoche, Kalu Rinpoche, Lama Osel and Gomo Tulku have all broken away from their traditional roles of being a monk and teaching in monasteries to just being regular youths with regular needs and wants and dreams, and most of them are not very Dharma oriented. Perhaps this is a better way, at this time, to reach out to people?

michaela

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2012, 12:59:57 PM »
I like this story.  Gesar Mukpo is very down to earth.  I think the way he presented what it means to be a tulku for him is really true and a teaching by itself.

shugdenpromoter

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2012, 06:46:13 PM »
I've seen this movie... thought it was a rather interesting perspective from the Tulkus themselves. It shows us that they are humans too with the great expectations that folls upon them just cause they are recognise as a Tulku. This can be a trmendous pressure on them.

However one thing interesting is that the very core nature of all their characteristics is still kindness and compassion and finding different ways to benefit others or spread the Dharma... even through film making! This  has been the highlighting fact in the movie that it is far more important then the label it self. It also shows that real Tulkus will always fin ways to benefit others weather they are on a throne or on the streets :)

I was not that impressed with the movie myself. Do not get me wrong, I love Chogyam Trungpa, he is a mahasidda to me. What I was not impressed with his how Gesar Mukpo conducted himself. I supposed that is why there is many levels of Tulkus. If a Rinpoche or Tulku imprints were very strong in their previous life, it will appear strongly in this current life. There were so many opportunities as seen in the movie that he could have take to nurture his imprints but he chose not to take it and go all the way with it.

Well, we shall see what Gesar Mukpo does now. Results will be the best thing to shut everyone up.

Klein

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2012, 08:21:15 AM »
Since tulkus are enlightened beings, they can control where they are taking a rebirth to benefit more people. This is one of the way Tibetan Buddhism is spreading out far and wide from Tibet. There are now more and more high lamas reincarnating into Western countries. And from these countries, they can further spread Buddhism to more places.

Dear Tenzin Malgyur,

Not all tulkus are Enlightened Beings. Yes they can control their rebirths. There are many levels of tulkus in terms of their attainments. A tulku who has reincarnated in control for 1 lifetime is in general less attained than a tulku who has reincarnated in control for 10 lifetimes. Therefore, for "lower" level tulkus, they can degenerate if the external conditions are not right. For "higher" level tulkus, they will never degenerate no matter what conditions they are in.

Lay people like us should ever judge a tulku, let a lone a monk or nun. This is because we are not qualified. My Lama advises that we just focus on our own practice and gain attainments. That's more important. The more attained we are, the effective we will be when benefiting others.

Ensapa

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2012, 10:13:03 AM »
I was not that impressed with the movie myself. Do not get me wrong, I love Chogyam Trungpa, he is a mahasidda to me. What I was not impressed with his how Gesar Mukpo conducted himself. I supposed that is why there is many levels of Tulkus. If a Rinpoche or Tulku imprints were very strong in their previous life, it will appear strongly in this current life. There were so many opportunities as seen in the movie that he could have take to nurture his imprints but he chose not to take it and go all the way with it.

Well, we shall see what Gesar Mukpo does now. Results will be the best thing to shut everyone up.

Sometimes, tulkus do not always teach. They can appear to plant seeds or create conditions, and when they decide to do that they do not manifest as a teacher at all but as normal people like you and me. They will be indistinguishable from ordinary folk but they will plant seeds or prepare the community that they were reborn in for more Dharma to set foot in and grow in the future.

In the event that tulkus do not teach or manifest any tulku activity at all, it could be several factors: 1) That the particular incarnation is not supposed to teach but lay down the foundations for something more 2) the students of the previous incarnation has created enough negative karma to push their teacher away so much that his teachings can no longe reach them or 3) the people of that region he reincarnated is not prepared for a teacher.

It is very hard for us to judge a tulku or decide what they are doing is right or wrong simply because we are not at that level to see and check if they are good or bad.They may manifest as rebels now but what if 50-100 years down the road the region they are in becomes very Buddhist or becomes very beneficial for themselves or others? we cannot tell and nobody will know for sure.

One thing that we need to remember is that tulkus are chosen by highly realized masters who have clairvoyance and we should not doubt that judgement. It would be unwise to doubt the judgements of highly realized masters who obviously can see more things beyond what we are able to and in the process create bad karma and inauspicious causes for ourselves.

DharmaSpace

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2012, 01:40:16 PM »
Gesar Mukpo perhaps he is a tulku who manifests playing video games and basketball. I suppose time will tell, yes Gesar Mukpo may not be doing what he is supposed to do yet but I just watch how he explains things and I find that the people's minds who are very developed they explain things so clearly and with a lot of conviction behind it. Who knows there could be more to Gesar to come.

Incidentally Penor Rinpoche offered help to the Serpom monks when they first left Sera. Why would one of the Highest incarnate lama of the Nyingma lineage help Dorje Shugden practitioners if they were sectarian or the practice of Dorje Shugden creates sectarianism. Magic, occult powers are not just the domain of the Gelugpas, the rest of the other Tibetan tradition have it too. Well apparently Dojre Shugden is out to destroy the Nyingmapas. HH Penor Rinpoche went into parinirvana 2009.

One can read about how kind HH Penor was.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=666.0

Ensapa

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Re: Tulkus highlighted in the British news
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2012, 04:17:03 AM »
Gesar Mukpo perhaps he is a tulku who manifests playing video games and basketball. I suppose time will tell, yes Gesar Mukpo may not be doing what he is supposed to do yet but I just watch how he explains things and I find that the people's minds who are very developed they explain things so clearly and with a lot of conviction behind it. Who knows there could be more to Gesar to come.


Perhaps the time is not right for Gesar Mukpo to manifest yet, or perhaps there are obstacles that prevent him from manifesting as a Lama during this time. However it is, i really do hope that he can manifest as a Lama once more and teach the people that he is supposed to teach. Once in a while, when a tulku manifests in a place where it is difficult to teach the dharma, they will just take up ordinary appearances and prepare the ground for this life and come back later in the next to teach.