Author Topic: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy  (Read 25634 times)

WisdomBeing

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Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« on: April 13, 2012, 05:21:30 AM »
I just saw these beautiful pictures of Lama Osel, the reincarnation of the legendary Lama Yeshe... These pictures were taken on 12 April 2012, at the Lama Tsongkhapa Institute in Pomaia, Italy. This is an FPMT centre and you can see Lama Osel giving a talk.

He is in lay clothes, and looks completely different from what you would expect a Lama to look like, but I am glad that he is still close to FPMT, which is the organisation founded by his previous incarnation. It just goes to show that these high lamas are always close to the Dharma, whatever outward appearances they may manifest. Years ago, Lama Osel had given back his robes and said he wanted to lead a secular life but here he is.

There is a theory that Lama Osel had distanced himself because of the Dorje Shugden issue, because Lama Yeshe had been a very strong Dorje Shugden practitioner. The growth of FPMT was also attributed to Dorje Shugden. However, when the ban on DS by the Dalai Lama was imposed, FPMT, which was then lead by Lama Zopa after Lama Yeshe’s passing, towed the party line and gave up Dorje Shugden.

Let’s hope Lama Osel will take over the reins of FPMT as Lama Zopa’s health is not strong. Perhaps Lama Osel can bring Dorje Shugden back to FPMT also.

Thank you to Piero Sirianni for the lovely photos.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Big Uncle

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 03:42:35 PM »
Wow! This is indeed great news! Because of what I read here, I share the same opinion that it was because of the Dorje Shugden issue that Lama Osel had distanced himself. However, now that he is making an appearance again is a good sign and I feel that it is because of the request of the aging Lama Zopa Rinpoche recently when he manifested illness.

I also feel that it is perhaps a sign that there is a shift and that the ban is slowly lifting. That's just a hunch. Whatever it is, FPMT badly needs a new leader and if Lama Osel is to eventually take the place of Lama Zopa Rinpoche, he should start the transition right now. Whether the ban lifts or not, the world would benefit when there's a new Dharma teacher. 

Positive Change

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 05:51:30 PM »
Yes it sure sure looks like Lama Osel is making the necessary connections for the eventual taking over of the reins of FPMT... or at least I hope so!

Imagine once FPMT gets back into the Dorje Shugden fold, it would like the prodigal son returning!!! :P

Jokes aside, I feel as Big Uncle, that Lama Osel reemergence in the "scene" is a positive sign as perhaps there is paradigm shift and the chess pieces on the board are starting to "move"!!!

Tenzin K

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 05:14:59 PM »
Good news!
So nice seeing Lama Osel is returning and giving talk. Although he has been away but still come back and can see that lately pretty much frequent.   
If really like what wisdomebeing mentioned that Lama Osel might to take over FPMT due to Lama Zopa health, which is good.
Lama Osel left the monastery at eighteen without having earned a geshe degree, he felt unqualified to teach as the FPMT expected him. He returns to Spain because he had arrived at the point where he is no longer fitted within that like. He couldn’t find himself, because for him it was a lie being there living something that was imposed from outside.
If Lama Osel were to come back permanently to look after the monastery, it’s time for a change in FTMP for good. Lama Osel should continue his believe in Lord Shugden practice.

dsiluvu

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 06:00:38 PM »
What beautiful pictures and awesome news! It is lovely to see Osel connecting back with FPMT and in a very different "look"... and perhaps he will shade light and a different perspective to FPMT students to think broader :)

Sure it will be awesome and much rejoicing news if the DS practice will be revived in FPMT or at least the students can stop schism and condemning others who do practice. That is not very Dharmic and if this could stop it will be a good start to say the least. 

Perhaps the DS puja requested by Lama Zopa's assistance to be done for Lama Zopa's health was more for the students then for Lama Zopa to repair their samaya? Whatever the case may be, it is still awesome that we get to see Osel still strong and passionate about  Dharma :)

thor

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 06:18:27 PM »
Thank you for sharing this news. I am glad to see that the FPMT show proper reverence to Lama Osel despite him following his own path for whatever reasons he has which I am certain are valid. I especially like the picture of him on the throne despite being in lay clothes.

I must also admit I am somewhat bemused by the conversations on this thread referring to the return of the FPMT to the Dorje Shugden fold. This would be a fantastic development in the Dorje Shugden saga, but I have never read reports of Lama Osel practicing Shugden. Would anyone have any solid information to support this? I am not writing to criticize but if there is such proof, it would be another great thorn in the side of anti-Shugden faction. I would not be surprised to hear if Lama Osel did indeed uphold Shugden as his protector seeing as how Lama Yeshe was also extremely close to Shugden.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Namdrol

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 06:44:26 PM »
Lama Osel most likely will not be openly returning to Dorje Shugden in the near future, there are a few things he has to consider:

- relationship with the Dalai Lama, it is not just his personal relationship, it is the whole FPMT's relationship with the Dalai Lama, if FPMT wants to continue to remain in the good books of the Dalai Lama, and if Lama Osel is to take a more prominent role in FPMT, then he cannot be seen returning to practising Dorje Shugden

- relationship with Lama Zopa, since Lama Zopa already openly advised against the practise of Dorje Shugden, if Lama Osel were to be seen returning to Dorje Shugden practise, it will be a severe conflict in the advice among the found gurus of FPMT - Lama Yeshe/Osel and Lama Zopa. Keeping in mind the interest of FPMT members, Lama Osel will not jeopardise that.

Lama Yeshe is very close to Dorje Shugden no doubt, and Lama Osel being his incarnation will naturally be attracted to Dorje Shugden too, and Lama Yeshe being a great practitioner, his incarnation is not likely to give up his heart practise given by his gurus for political reason. So Lama Osel may be practising Dorje Shugden secretly already, or will be taking up Dorje Shugden practise again in the future, because he is a true Dharma practitioner.

But no matter what, he will not be seen practising it openly for now and in the near future for sure.

VS

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 12:25:05 PM »
It is really great news that Lama Osel is back and is giving talks at an FPMT centre. Though Lama Osel has given back his robes and was in lay clothes, there are still many that attended His talk. This shows that a highly reincarnate Lama has great ability to reach out and spread the Dharma.

I do agree with Wisdom Being that this could be a good sign for the lifting if the ban. This also 'coincides' with the toning down of HHDL's stance against the practice of Dorje Shugden.

May all work together towards the lifting of the ban soon.

triesa

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 07:11:10 AM »
Very nice pictures of Lama Osel, to me whether an attained being is in his robes or layman clothes, that does not really matter, what's more important is who he really is inside.

I think it was through invitation from FPMT that Lama Osel gave such a teaching at this center in Italy.  But the fact that Lama Osel accepted and went back to FPMT was really a good news to rejoice. The reason why he left for Spain initially was to distant himself from FPMT.

The turn of the dice could have been a gel of few events that have happened lately, the softer stance of HH Dalai Lama on DS issue, the visit of Lama Osel to Lama Zopa during his sickness, lama Zopa might have asked Lama Osel to connect back or return to FPMT due to his ill health.

Personally I believe Lama Osel is a devoted DS practitioner, becasue if Lama Zopa was once a strong devotee, why wouldn't Lama Osel be? He is in lay clothes and away from FPMT, that says something, isn't it?

I pray for Lama Osel long life and may he continue to trun the wheel of dharma......

DharmaSpace

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 12:19:53 PM »
FPMT is one of the biggest Gelug organisations in the world, it is right that it has a strong leader who believes in his own direction and principles. Lama Osel seems so natural in his surrounding and he seems like a very gentle person in the way he conducts himself.

Kopan the seat of FPMT influence came about through the grand practice of Dorje Shugden, that both Lama Osel and Lama Zopa did extensively. How can it be right that they abandon the practice? We dont just abandon something that has helped us to grow right? Thanks WB for sharing beautiful pictures with us.


michaela

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 03:22:47 PM »
Just several technical questions.  Again, I am not questioning Lama Osel's mind or his inclination towards Dharma:
-  When a monk is disrobed, can he still be called a Lama?
-  Is Lama Osel openly practicing DS in this lifetime?  There are many lamas that practiced DS in their previous lives but at least did not practice or openly practice in this life.  If the rumours are indeed true that he disrobes because he wants to practice DS, why then he does not openly do so?  There is nothing stopping him now

 

Ensapa

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 03:44:53 PM »
Just several technical questions.  Again, I am not questioning Lama Osel's mind or his inclination towards Dharma:
-  When a monk is disrobed, can he still be called a Lama?
-  Is Lama Osel openly practicing DS in this lifetime?  There are many lamas that practiced DS in their previous lives but at least did not practice or openly practice in this life.  If the rumours are indeed true that he disrobes because he wants to practice DS, why then he does not openly do so?  There is nothing stopping him now

Yes, a Lama does not necessarily need to be a monk. So if a monk gives up the robes (not because he broke the rules and was disgraced) and he held his vows intact before he gives them up and is in line with the recommended qualities that the 50 verses of Guru devotion has outlined, then yes he is still a qualified teacher. There are many lay lamas around such as Gelek Rinpoche who are still very qualified to teach.

We cannot tell if Lama Osel is doing so, but he was sent to Kopan for training, and as of now they have exhibited openly that they are against Dorje Shugden. So even if he was practicing, it would be in secret. Perhaps time will tell if he is, when the ban is lifted or when he decides that enough is enough and speaks up against the ban.

On a related note, if you read the 5th Dalai Lama's biography, it is said that Sangye Gyatso started the war against the wishes of the 5th Dalai Lama and as a result, in his 6th reincarnation HHDL refused to join the monastery and undergo the standard training or live up to anyone's expectations of him during that time. Perhaps the force of forcefully going against the Guru's wishes can cause the Lama to not manifest in the way of a Lama but something else.

If Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche and Lama Osel has not made their practice public, but has remained neutral on this matter, should we not follow the same? Perhaps this is the way that Dorje Shugden practitioners should manifest now for the benefit of the many, so that we do not disturb the minds of those who have samaya with HHDL post ban, but at the same time promote his practice.

dsdisciple

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 09:12:06 AM »
Thank you Wisdom Being for posting these beautiful photo's of Lama Osel and even better to see that he is finding his own way...teaching a little Dharma and best of all happy in himself and what he is doing.

The pix exude a depth of being that his previous incarnation exuded in pictures teaching the dharma :D

Let's hope that a modern lama for modern times manifest teaching the dharma more and more.

Ensapa I agree with your comment about how we can be neutral on the DS issue and maintain private practice. Personally I have had only one occasion for someone to tentatively question me to follow HHDL wishes and even then because I keep my practice immensely private nothing happened I suspect because this person saw the positive aspects of our previous relationship and not follow the dogma of the DS issue.

Sign of the times...

xo




Jessie Fong

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2012, 09:39:14 AM »
Thank you for posting these current pictures of Lama Osel.  It is a good sign that he went back to the centre.

Lama Osel distanced himself physically from the centre but he stayed close at heart with DS. 

Ensapa

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Re: Lama Osel at FPMT in Italy
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2012, 09:42:32 AM »
Thank you Wisdom Being for posting these beautiful photo's of Lama Osel and even better to see that he is finding his own way...teaching a little Dharma and best of all happy in himself and what he is doing.

The pix exude a depth of being that his previous incarnation exuded in pictures teaching the dharma :D

Let's hope that a modern lama for modern times manifest teaching the dharma more and more.

Ensapa I agree with your comment about how we can be neutral on the DS issue and maintain private practice. Personally I have had only one occasion for someone to tentatively question me to follow HHDL wishes and even then because I keep my practice immensely private nothing happened I suspect because this person saw the positive aspects of our previous relationship and not follow the dogma of the DS issue.

Sign of the times...

xo

As I have pointed out in my previous post, if the students of a particular Lama go against the will or wishes of their Lama on purpose despite the Lama saying no, then the Lama will not manifest himself the way his students expect him to be in the next life i.e going for monastic training, manifesting as an ordained Lama and then teaching them again.

At this point, even if FPMT unbans Dorje Shugden or does whatever they need to repair their samaya with Lama Yeshe, it is already too late because the karma has already been activated and they will just have to accept that Lama Yeshe will not listen to their expectations and wishes, just as they did not listen to his in this previous reincarnation. It's pure karma.

Perhaps, Lama Yeshe will manifest teaching again when the ban is lifted, or when FPMT and Kopan follows Lama Yeshe's practices again without bowing to political pressure or doing unfortunate acts for themselves i.e politics, witchunts, extolling the imaginary negativities of Dorje Shugden just so that they can align themselves with the Dalai Lama and so on, but thats pretty unlikely to happen.

However it is, FPMT is a container for HHDL's students around the world so Lama Zopa telling his students not to practice Dorje Shugden is understandable, as he needs to protect their minds and samaya with HHDL, but his students going on witchhunts and bad mouthing other centers and trying to be the political authority in the buddhist community of every country they reside in is pretty much not Dharma and not Lama Zopa's instructions.

Can anyone guess what will happen if Lama Zopa passes? The answer is obvious at this point.