The Dalai Lama Rejects Blind Faith

[DharmaDefender]

Twas on my usual Facebook rounds when I came across this:

Dharma, or the teachings, is not a series of instructions to be believed and followed out of blind faith. The practice of Dharma should be carried out on the basis of reason and contemplation. If one accepts a point or practice or doctrine out of blind faith, one is accepting it for the wrong reasons and in the wrong way. Whenever I myself encounter a contradiction between doctrine and reason, I always give priority to reason. Buddha taught many levels and types of doctrines in dependence upon the quality of this audiences, and we must discern for ourselves what was meant literally  and what only figuratively.

Excerpts from The Path to Enlightenment (1982) by the Dalai Lama, a commentary on The Essence of Refined Gold by Sonam Gyatso.

I find "Buddha taught many levels and types of doctrines in dependence upon the quality of this audiences, and we must discern for ourselves what was meant literally and what only figuratively." particularly poignant and am wondering what it says about the anti-Shugden people who take EVERYTHING literally.

Ive gotten into arguments about the different parts of Dorje Shugdens prayers, for example about in the confession about drinking the heart's blood and in the invocation about holding a enemy heart in his hands.

If I were to take everything literally, then half the tantric deities practices would be out of bounds to me - have you seen Yamantaka lately and how fierce he is? How many knives and whatnot he carries? Or on a not-tantric-scale, how about Palden Lhamo and her sons skin which she sits on?

[Big Uncle]

All of Buddha's teachings are classified to be between interpretive and definitive teachings. Definitive teachings are teachings that the meaning is apparent, easy to understand and grasp. While the interpretive teachings are figurative  and basically what you have just said. Most of Sutra teachings are definitive while Tantric teachings are strictly interpretive. Hence, one would need a good spiritual guide to help us to navigate through all the pitfalls and wrong interpretations so we come towards the real intent of the Buddha.

[vajratruth]

I appreciate many things about Buddhism. In particular I like how it encourages practitioners to think for themselves and subject all that is taught by the Buddha to the test of reason. The tricky part is knowing what and how to discern, given the fact that we are all living in samsara and given to delusions and ignorance.

As Big Uncle said, this is where the Guru comes in and in a significant way. The Guru is important not only to interpret the teachings but also to present in a way that different people with different levels of comprehension and life experience will understand and come to practice the teachings.

The Buddha is said to have taught in 84,000 different ways but essentially it is one teaching. There are many ways to interpret the teachings but none of them have the effect of changing the truth. However, the only way to experience this truth is to actually engage in the practice.

[Positive Change]

Dharma, or the teachings, is not a series of instructions to be believed and followed out of blind faith.
The practice of Dharma should be carried out on the basis of reason and contemplation.
If one accepts a point or practice or doctrine out of blind faith, one is accepting it for the wrong reasons and in the wrong way.
Whenever I myself encounter a contradiction between doctrine and reason, I always give priority to reason.

Buddha taught many levels and types of doctrines in dependence upon the quality of this audiences, and we must discern for ourselves what was meant literally and what only figuratively.

Excerpts from The Path to Enlightenment (1982) by the Dalai Lama, a commentary on The Essence of Refined Gold by Sonam Gyatso.

Could it be then that the ban of Dorje Shugden is meant to be "figurative" and not "literal"?

For if I "must discern for ourselves what was meant literally and what was only figuratively", then I can conclude easily that the ban has no foundation, though may be justified by the need for the practice and recognition of Dorje Shugden to grow, yet has NO foundation.

And because the absence of foundation is visible just as clearly as the Eiffel tower is in Paris, that very "obviousness" is a clear indication that we must "discern for ourselves".

I may have twisted the Dalai Lama's words into my sentences here, but I do not think that I have twisted the reality of the situation. I do not entertain blind faith to the Dalai Lama, and there is no contradiction there between - seeing the Dalai lama as Chenrezig AND practicing Dorje Shugden.

Long live the Dalai Lama, and praises to Dorje Shugden! AND WHY NOT?

[Ensapa]

Yeah  but what about the baseless banning of Dorje Shugden? Placing a ban based on some misconstructed historical facts isn't exactly NOT blind faith….well at least some investigation was done but unfortunately they were based on distorted facts. The ban was also implemented in a way that encouraged blind faith instead of investigation in the majority of the Buddhists out there…

So what is really going on? It is funny for the Dalai Lama to say that on one hand but his followers worldwide are following his advice blindly and not even make an educated guess on the pros and cons of Dorje Shugden and what he really is. Can the word of a Lama override history and a lineage that is over 350 years old? Or perhaps, the followers are just blindly following due to fear?

Everyone follows the ban, but what about the Dalai Lama urging everyone to investigate before putting their faith into something? Everyone does thorough investigation when they they invest in anything samsaric but they don't really do so when they invest in something spiritually. They just prefer to follow their friends and family without prior reasoning or investigation.

My point is, why are his followers being selective in the advice he gives? His followers should follow each and every advice given if they are really sincere and not just following to cover up their own insecurities or to look spiritually superior compared to others...

[Tenzin Gyatso]

Twas on my usual Facebook rounds when I came across this:

Dharma, or the teachings, is not a series of instructions to be believed and followed out of blind faith. The practice of Dharma should be carried out on the basis of reason and contemplation. If one accepts a point or practice or doctrine out of blind faith, one is accepting it for the wrong reasons and in the wrong way. Whenever I myself encounter a contradiction between doctrine and reason, I always give priority to reason. Buddha taught many levels and types of doctrines in dependence upon the quality of this audiences, and we must discern for ourselves what was meant literally  and what only figuratively.

Excerpts from The Path to Enlightenment (1982) by the Dalai Lama, a commentary on The Essence of Refined Gold by Sonam Gyatso.

HHDL's teachings, books and tapes are so incredibly clear. His fame and mainstream acceptance above all other dharma teachers of the Tibetan Tradition is a clear indication of someone who is really of the nature of refined gold. He has been examined by Buddhists and non-Buddhists and all accept him on many levels.

[hope rainbow]

HHDL's teachings, books and tapes are so incredibly clear. His fame and mainstream acceptance above all other dharma teachers of the Tibetan Tradition is a clear indication of someone who is really of the nature of refined gold. He has been examined by Buddhists and non-Buddhists and all accept him on many levels.

I rejoice in reading this.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama is indeed the most acclaimed Buddhist Guru alive today, and I believe it is so for the right reasons.

HH comes from a lineage of amazing Masters themselves who do not do less than HH:
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche
- Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche
- Kyabje Dagpo Rinpoche
going on and on like this, including Lama Tsongkhapa himself, the Great Atisha, all the way to the Great Victor Lord Buddha Shakyamuni the Buddha of this eon.

The lineage is impeccable, un-broken, without degeneration, we just need to learn to know this and to observe the Masters alive today to realize this.

Never in my right mind would I come to doubt HH or say anything ill of Him.
My root Guru only ever had respectful words towards Him, to me this says more than a thousand words.

[DSFriend]

The line between figurative and definitive becomes blurred in many religions… and sadly passages of the religious text is taken out of context and used conveniently for personal agendas.

So we have people running around parroting what "God/Buddha/Mr X says.." This is one of the areas which makes me weary of religion. it is not an easy thing for any one to proof or disapprove the existence of God, Buddhas, angels or particular faith because it takes years to learn, observe and practice to know what works.

Is what HHDL says figurative or definitive? Well, we have multitudes of people who seems to interpret it as definitive and most of our example of this comes from the ordained community ie., samdhong rinpoche, abbots of monasteries etc who executes the orders. We could say then if it was figurative then the monks would have just debated out the topic instead of taking this to the streets.

Without this website, i would have been so confused and disheartened. What i hold on to is to continue keeping the right view of HHDL. After all, what difference have i made in this world for me to criticize a being who has given his whole life to benefitting others. And who am I to judge the motivation of the ordained communities. Keep it simple. Avoid negative views as much as I can.

Perhaps HHDL could have given the instructions to ban shugden as figurative or maybe definitive,… I don't know. Whichever serves best to help our practice and develop pure motivation to benefit others.

[Zach]

The question that should be asked is do people have blind faith in the Dalai lama ?

[Ensapa]

HHDL's teachings, books and tapes are so incredibly clear. His fame and mainstream acceptance above all other dharma teachers of the Tibetan Tradition is a clear indication of someone who is really of the nature of refined gold. He has been examined by Buddhists and non-Buddhists and all accept him on many levels.

I agree that HHDL's teachings are incredibly clear and not only that, they have the ability to move the hearts of those who read it. He also appeals to people who are just seeking for answers in their lives, and who do not know what to do with their life. He can heal people who are emotionally damaged without look at them but through his works and this is amazing.

However, we have to see if his students are actually practicing his holy teachings or are they too busy combatting nonexistent enemies and very silly bans just to appear to be closer to HHDL, and that they dont listen all the way but only listen to whatever teachings that placate their minds but never ever put them into real practice.

Even if we align overselves to HHDL but we do not work for it and we are lazy, we only practice whenever we feel like it, we only want to read the lines that makes us happy but does not contain the advice we need to hear, never have to apply, never have to check or study then even it you are with the right political camp, the other side wins.

Why be so selective in the teachings? Can the Dharma ever harm? no. But It can cause the students to go down further because they already saw HHDL as a Guru and if we transgress his advice directly or indirectly after knowing he's a Yidam, it creates more negative karma than usual. The Lama is great, but the students are not supporting or caring for their Lamas in that way...

[Klein]

Twas on my usual Facebook rounds when I came across this:

Dharma, or the teachings, is not a series of instructions to be believed and followed out of blind faith. The practice of Dharma should be carried out on the basis of reason and contemplation. If one accepts a point or practice or doctrine out of blind faith, one is accepting it for the wrong reasons and in the wrong way. Whenever I myself encounter a contradiction between doctrine and reason, I always give priority to reason. Buddha taught many levels and types of doctrines in dependence upon the quality of this audiences, and we must discern for ourselves what was meant literally  and what only figuratively.

Excerpts from The Path to Enlightenment (1982) by the Dalai Lama, a commentary on The Essence of Refined Gold by Sonam Gyatso.

This is a clear indication that HHDL's ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden cannot be taken literally. Many people who stopped the practice did it because HHDL said so. Isn't this BLIND FAITH? I don't remember HHDL presenting any hard facts to prove that Dorje Shugden is a demon spirit.

If HHDL rejects blind faith, isn't he telling all of us to also reject his ban that he announced many times? Perhaps to be skillful, we can reject it on the surface but still continue the practice in private for the bigger picture as mentioned many times in this forum. The ban should not be taken literally but figuratively since it is baseless.

[Aurore]

From day one, the Dalai Lama has been contradictory in regards to anything related to Dorje Shugden.

He preaches world peace but creates disharmony within DS practitioners and non-practitioners.

He rejects blind faith and believe in the logic of reasoning and contemplation, but expects practitioners to give up DS practice without any solid proof and reasons.

He is supposed to be the Buddha of Compassion who can subdue any evil spirit and have control over his death, yet he is worried about his life being shorten by DS practitioners.

He accepts all religion and other people's faith, yet he does not allow those who propitiates DS to attend his teachings.

The list goes on. HHDL is being contradictory to the point that it doesn't make any sense unless it's for a bigger purpose.

[Ensapa]

From day one, the Dalai Lama has been contradictory in regards to anything related to Dorje Shugden.

He preaches world peace but creates disharmony within DS practitioners and non-practitioners.

He rejects blind faith and believe in the logic of reasoning and contemplation, but expects practitioners to give up DS practice without any solid proof and reasons.

He is supposed to be the Buddha of Compassion who can subdue any evil spirit and have control over his death, yet he is worried about his life being shorten by DS practitioners.

He accepts all religion and other people's faith, yet he does not allow those who propitiates DS to attend his teachings.

The list goes on. HHDL is being contradictory to the point that it doesn't make any sense unless it's for a bigger purpose.

I think you missed out one point as many articles against Dorje Shugden on the Dalai Lama's website, if you read them enough times, you will notice that they are either very badly written or that they contain a lot of loopholes and inconsistencies with the rest of history. These are slipped in very, very subtly so they are not obvious. The articles in reality promote Dorje Shugden but from a negative way.

The article written by the 100th Ganden Tripa talks about Dorje Shugden rejoicing for a Nyigma Lama when he gave a talk, and the paragraph before that claims that Dorje Shugden is sectarian. Now why the glaring contradiction on the Dalai Lama's official website? does it not mean something? HHDL on his website has also indirectly attacked masters such as Pabongkha and Tapu Dorjechang, but in an odd, passive-aggresive, half-hearted way. What is he trying to get to?

Also, why does the Dalai Lama keep 2 proven and verified incarnations of Dorje Shugden near him, Ngari Rinpoche and Samdhong Rinpoche? Isnt that weird? Or he is trying to send a message to wake people up that perhaps, there are people practicing Dorje Shugden for the wrong reasons and this has to stop. Or perhaps he is trying to make the people realize that their blind faith is wrong...hmmmm

The whole thing is all starting to feel like a show done to please certain people instead of a real and concrete ban, although it has caused a lot of suffering for the practitioners but in reality it helps them become stronger and be more determined in their practice. Maybe they will need that strength soon. Hmm.

[dondrup]

If we were to analyse thoroughly and logically, we cannot find any solid reason to support HH Dalai Lama’s claims about Dorje Shugden! We can refute point by point to prove HH Dalai Lama is wrong. It is impossible that HH Dalai Lama, who is an emanation of Chenrezig, fully enlightened and omniscient to make a mistake about Dorje Shugden.  Anti-Shugdenites have been blindly adhering to the ban on Dorje Shugden without even questioning the validity or grounds for its enforcement.  Has it not occurred to them that the ban was merely for a bigger purpose and not to be taken literally?

[DharmaSpace]

Yes this is an interesting post. The Dalai Lama is asking us to check for ourselves whether something is real or false. Perhaps the Dalai is being the ultimate guru to us asking us to examine and find out for ourselves what is the truth and what is false. The Dalai Lama was Dromtonpa who helped Lama Atisha when Lama Atisha made the teachings pure again in Tibet so his lineage of incarnations is impeccable, I have read some of Dalai Lama's books his explanation on the 12 links is so profound, I have to read it over and over again to get more out of that text. Dalai Lama is enlightened no doubt in my mind.