Author Topic: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer  (Read 20596 times)

WisdomBeing

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This is an interesting warning by Nechung about a potential natural disaster. I do hope he is wrong or that there will be pujas done to avert this calamity.

What I found more interesting is that Dr Lobsang Sangay said, “I am a modern educated Tibetan but on the other hand, I am a Tibetan and follow Buddhist traditions,” Dr Sangay said. “So, I will be also consulting the state oracle, but that doesn’t mean I will follow what the state-oracle says.”

Is he sitting on the fence? He will consult but may not follow the advice? Will he not follow the advice of Nechung who said Dorje Shugden was a spirit?


Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=31126&article=Nechung+warns+of+natural+calamity+in+northwest+India+this+summer&t=1&c=1
Phayul[Friday, March 23, 2012 21:27]

DHARAMSHALA, March 23: Chief state oracle of Tibet, Nechung, has warned of a natural calamity in northwestern India this summer.

The Tibetan Parliament-in Exile, in a release on its website said the Nechung oracle made the divination while in trance last Friday.

“Nechung oracle in his divination warned of a natural calamity in northwestern India this coming summer,” the Tibetan Parliament said.

Many parts of northwestern India falls under the seismic zones IV and V, with V being highest risk zone for earthquakes.

The 15th Tibetan Parliament during it’s ongoing 3rd session had requested audience of the state oracles, Nechung, Gadong and Tsering Chen-nga on March 16 at the Tsug-la Khang, the main temple in Dharamshala.

According to the release, consultations were made regarding the ongoing crisis inside Tibet and His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

As part of Tibet’s ancient Buddhist traditions, consulting state oracles has been an official practice for many centuries.

The Dalai Lama, who has used what he calls the “ancient method of intelligence gathering”, said in his autobiography “Freedom in Exile” that he does not solely rely on the oracle’s advice.

“I seek his opinion in the same way as I seek the opinion of my Cabinet and just as I seek the opinion of my own conscience. I consider the gods to be my ’upper house’. The Kashag constitutes my lower house. Like any other leader, I consult both before making a decision on affairs of state,” the Tibetan spiritual leader wrote.

Shortly after assuming his responsibility as Kalon Tripa, Dr Lobsang Sangay in an interview with Phayul said that he will be following the tradition of consulting the state oracle.

“I am a modern educated Tibetan but on the other hand, I am a Tibetan and follow Buddhist traditions,” Dr Sangay said. “So, I will be also consulting the state oracle, but that doesn’t mean I will follow what the state-oracle says.”

The Tibetan Parliament release noted that Nechung, in his divination, advised the Tibetan people to increase their collective merit.

In an effort to avoid the natural calamity, the Department of Religion and Culture under the Central Tibetan Administration will be conducting specific prayer offerings as advised by the state oracle.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DharmaDefender

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 08:23:41 AM »
I am a modern educated Brit but on the other hand, I am also Tibetan Buddhist and therefore I follow Buddhist traditions. My...nay, THE Buddhist traditions teach me that sectarianism and putting down other sects is against the teachings of compassion and acceptance. Dr Lobsang Sangay, ignoring the tradition of oracles, etc which people can always argue against... pray tell what your tradition teaches? To remain silent in the face of controversy? You know what mate? If youve no enemies, means youve never stood up for something in your life.

For those in northwest India yes I hope Nechung is wrong again, as he has been so many other times.

bambi

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 08:44:36 AM »
Oh! I hope that Nechung orace is wrong with his divination or else it will be very sad to see India hit with a disaster! Well, Dr Lobsang Sangay do have his point there, not to follow blindly in what the state oracle says.  He should consult and get opinions from his cabinet as well.  More pujas should be done to help clear whatever disaster that might happen. Also make sure that food, drinks and medicines are well stocked up in the event that something happens. Well, if they just lift the ban and consult in Lord Dorje Shugden then they wouldnt be having this problem RIGHT??? ::)

Klein

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 01:44:18 PM »
I don't get what Dr Lobsang Sangay is trying to say here.

“I am a modern educated Tibetan but on the other hand, I am a Tibetan and follow Buddhist traditions,” Dr Sangay said. “So, I will be also consulting the state oracle, but that doesn’t mean I will follow what the state-oracle says.”

If he follows Buddhist traditions, then isn't he supposed to follow what the state oracle says? I find this very contradictory and confusing.

With regards to Nechung's prophesy of northwest India, I do hope that the calamity can be averted or drastically reduced.

shugdenpromoter

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 06:38:54 PM »

What I found more interesting is that Dr Lobsang Sangay said, “I am a modern educated Tibetan but on the other hand, I am a Tibetan and follow Buddhist traditions,” Dr Sangay said. “So, I will be also consulting the state oracle, but that doesn’t mean I will follow what the state-oracle says.”

Is he sitting on the fence? He will consult but may not follow the advice? Will he not follow the advice of Nechung who said Dorje Shugden was a spirit?


The Tibetan Parliament release noted that Nechung, in his divination, advised the Tibetan people to increase their collective merit.



MAYBE Dr Lobsang Sangay should consult the Shugden oracle about this. What a bash on HH face when he said he will NOT follow the state oracle advice. Then MAYBE to save his ass, he should NOT follow the state oracle advice on banning Shugden. Then he will probably be the most popular prime minister ever.

Another thing which struck out the most for me is what Nechung said that the Tibetan people to increase their collective merits....that made sense to me. First, the lost their country, from a Tibetan Government in Exile, they have been "demoted" to just an administrative office and now natural disaster. The Tibetans better take this advice strongly and stop causing schism and bad-mouthing Shugden. Poor poor Tibetans, your leader ie Dr Lobsang Sangay might be from Harvard but everyone is still waiting for him to perform. 

lotus1

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 08:39:13 PM »
Firstly, I do hope either Nechung is wrong on his divination on Northwestern India or prayers are done to prevent this from happening.

Reading through the article, I just experienced that Dr Lobsang Sangay statements are so ‘politically’ phrased and contradicting he himself. As a Tibetan Buddhist, we all know that when we ask for divination from high beings like Dharma Protector or Lamas, we should follow the instruction 100% or we should not ask for it at all. If ask but do not follow, we will be creating negative karma of having two minds in the future. If Dr Lobsang Sangay is someone that having two minds, as a leader, will he has the credibility and would anyone will believe or listen and follow him next time?

When His Holiness DL mentioned that “he does not solely rely on the oracle’s advice”, an interesting thought came to my mind. Would he think of Nechung as the un-enlightened Dharma Protector and may not see that far? If that’s the case, why not he just consult the enlightened Dharma Protector like Lord Shugden? In addition, would he also not 100% believe on what Nechung said about Lord Shugden? If that’s the case, is he at the same time looking into lifting the ban? Very interesting…… and I do hope my later thought came true. Pray hard for that!

Positive Change

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2012, 02:02:32 PM »
No disrespect... but i would take what Nechung says with a pinch of salt these days. He is after all an unenlightened protector. But having said that, there is no harm in heeding such warnings should it come true...

Or perhaps the CTA should just consult The King Dorje Shugden for a more affirmative answer! :P

I truly hope Nechung's prediction is incorrect and that the people in the areas mentioned will be spared and that it is indeed not their collective karma to experience such a calamity!

dondrup

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2012, 03:55:49 PM »
Nechung is an unenlightened Dharma protector hence his predictions cannot be accurate.  Well he had been proven very wrong in the past.  Nechung had given the wrong advice to HH Dalai Lama that could have cost HH Dalai Lama’s life!   The irony is that the CTA continues to consult and rely on Nechung for advice knowing very well his divinations are unreliable!

Dr. Sangay said. “So, I will be also consulting the state oracle, but that doesn’t mean I will follow what the state-oracle says.”

If Dr. Sangay will not follow what Nechung said then why consult Nechung?  It simply doesn’t make sense!  Could we imply that Dr. Sangay doesn’t trust Nechung?  Let’s hope that Dr. Sangay will have compassion for his fellow Tibetan citizens who are Dorje Shugden followers.  If Dr. Sangay had analysed the whole issues surrounding the ban on Dorje Shugden, he will not hesitate to initiate the lift on the ban which is long overdue.

As for the prediction on the natural disaster, why doesn’t CTA consult an enlightened and fully reliable protector like Dorje Shugden?  Would you trust a Wisdom Buddha – Dorje Shugden or a spirit - Nechung?

Namdrol

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2012, 06:14:51 PM »
What does Dr Lobsang Sangay mean by consulting Nechung but may not follow Nechung's advice? If you are not going to follow, what consult in the first place?

I believe Dr Lobsang Sangay is not really a religious person, he is more wordly (nothing wrong with that) and would like to run the Tibetan community using democratic system rather than religious system, but this is a transition period, he canot completely cut off from the old system just yet, therefore he has to make statement such as that above, it will calm the mind of many especially those form the previous system, so his apparently contradicting statement is understandable, that is called "politics".

As for Nechung, he has been wrong for so many times, the biggest blunder was during the 90s when he predicted that the Dalai Lama and Tibetans will be able to go back to Tibet in 5 years time, so everybody was elated, they packed their stuff, waiting for that day to come, but it never happened.

Another big blunder was during 1959 when he asked the Dalai Lama to stay back while Dorje Shugden asked the Dalai Lama to leave, if they listened to Nechung, most probably we wouldn't have heard of the 14th Dalai Lama today, with all due respect.

It he can be wrong for such a big thing, definitely he can be wrong for smaller thing like this natural calamity thing, the Tibetans should take it with not a pinch but a handful of salt.

Should have listened to Dorje Shugden, past, present, and future.

Big Uncle

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2012, 07:06:54 PM »
Why would anybody want to hear a prophecy from a being that is famous for making enormous errors. You never know when you are going receive an answer that will come true. The truth is Nechung is not enlightened and therefore not a true object of refuge at all.

That means we cannot rely on Nechung and that whatever he says should be taken with a pinch of salt. With all the evidence lined-up, why would anybody still wanna believe Nechung. Besides the fact that he is working with the Dalai Lama, there is no other vote of confidence at all. However, in this case, we should nonetheless keep our eyes and ears peeled regarding this matter.

triesa

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 09:30:57 AM »

What I found more interesting is that Dr Lobsang Sangay said, “I am a modern educated Tibetan but on the other hand, I am a Tibetan and follow Buddhist traditions,” Dr Sangay said. “So, I will be also consulting the state oracle, but that doesn’t mean I will follow what the state-oracle says.”

Is he sitting on the fence? He will consult but may not follow the advice? Will he not follow the advice of Nechung who said Dorje Shugden was a spirit?



The statement made by Dr Lobsang Sangay that he would follow buddhist traditions of consulting the state oracle but that did not mean he would follow the advice from the State oracle is indeed like having a needle with both ends sharp. Either he is a smart politican or he just does not know what the traditions of consulting oracle is all about.

My opinion to what he said :

1) He is aware of the inaccuarcy of Nechung, but as a respect to the Tibetan traditions, he would folow and consult the state oracle rather than making too much big changes at one time.

2) He gives himdself some free way to move around his stance in future, that Nechung has said Dorje Shugden is a spirit and he might not take this as an advice also, which he played very smartly as a politican.

3) I dont quite buy the fact that he does not understand that one needs to follow through the advice of the state oracle after divination, becasue as a Tibetan, he should be well taught of this. So I would take him playing the smart politican here and giving him the power in future to do the necessary as he deems condusive for the country as circumstances arise.

pgdharma

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 01:08:50 PM »
Can Nechung predictions be trusted after all he had made many mistakes in the past with his predictions? So I hope this time he is wrong again.

Lobsang Sangay said that he may not follow what the state oracle says. If he is a Tibetan and follows Buddhist tradition, isn’t he supposed to listen to the state oracle advice unless he does not trust Nechung. If that’s the case, why not consult Dorje Shugden who can give clear and correct answers.

I hope the collective karma of the people will not manifest in the form of natural calamities and if it were to happen may Dorje Shugden avert or reduce the calamities.

Yeshe

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2012, 05:22:01 PM »
As there are earthquakes fairly often, the prediciton is a fairly safe bet - early in March there was a 4.9 strength earthquake.  Maybe the oracle heard about it and maybe heard predicitons thta other will follow.

Sometimes you don't need to be an oracle - just read the Times of India.  LOL :)
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Ensapa

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2012, 02:49:14 PM »
This will be a very interesting test to see if Nechung is really accurate or has he become unreliable over time. If nothing happens, the Tibetans and the whole world will know that he is lying and unreliable. HHDL may let him get away with it but the current Tibetan Government will not. They will simply discredit and dismiss him. After all, who wants someone unreliable to help rule the country?

After all the mistakes that Nechung has consistently made, including making false predictions that does not do anything else but placate the people and make empty promises that hold no water. I am still quite surprised to see that the CTA still trusts Nechung despite causing the deaths of 700 Tibetan soldiers needlessly. They could have been saved if they did not follow Nechung's "advice" to go and fight.

Obviously, not learning from history can be quite a painful and humiliating lesson from many, and it seems that the Tibetans still have not learnt anything despite them losing the country to China and also the downgrading of their government to the status of an administration. They have not learnt anything at all from other countries around them, nor have they learnt anything about taking care of their own country.

I don't see anything wrong with following nechung's advice, but if he has a bad track record, would it not be better to actually stop consulting him? Well, as much as he deserve a chance, he is going to be responsible for the Tibetan people's happiness and if he fails, he should really be fired from being one of the advisors for the government simply because he is not performing.

Manjushri

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Re: Nechung warns of natural calamity in northwest India this summer
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2012, 06:47:48 PM »
Nechung with another great prediction. I wonder whether this prediction will be accurate this time around. With so many inaccurate predictions over the period that Nechung has been State Oracle, it is hard to trust him. At least this disaster that he has predicted is a warning, instead of an advise.. If the natural calamity occurs, then good, Nechung warned and the people were aware of and prepared for it..but if it doesn't, then at least the people were prepared. Either ways, at least this is not a direct case of life and death. Anyways I don't understand why Nechung is relied upon so much.. but at least HHDL said that he does not rely on the advises of the Oracle alone. He will also consult his cabinet and consciousness. Just like what Dr Lobsang Sangay said.. that he will consult the state oracle but it doesn't necessarily mean that he will follow the advises of the state Oracle.

He's left an open door.. that could work in his favour in the future. Who knows. Maybe he really is working towards the segregation of politics and religion.

Just a quick thought though... What's the point of consulting when you're not going to follow? Its like having divination done and then not seeing the advises through - it'll just affect the accuracy of the divination the next time you request for one, no?