The Dalai Lama DID NOT SAY...

[Namdrol]

Throughout the whole saga of Dorje Shugden, I realize that the Dalai Lama has been quite consistent in the things he said, the Dalai Lama said don't practise Dorje Shugden, the Dalai Lama said those who still insist on practising Dorje Shugden should leave the current monastery and practise on their own somewhere else, the Dalai Lama asked to move the Dorje Shugden statue from the main Lachi in Gaden to a chapel of its own, the Dalai Lama said his guru is wrong...BUT

Dalai Lama did not say SLANDER YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DON'T TAKE CARE OF YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DESTROY AND BURN DORJE SHUGDEN STATUE
Dalai Lama did not say KILL THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS
Dalai Lama did not say..........

So, which smart alec out there take the initiative to add in the extra steps of SLANDER YOUR TEACHER, STONE YOUR TEACHER'S HOUSE, PUT THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS IN HIT-LIST, DESTROY DORJE SHUGDE STATUES...

Whose smart ideas are these? Whose?

[Positive Change]

Throughout the whole saga of Dorje Shugden, I realize that the Dalai Lama has been quite consistent in the things he said, the Dalai Lama said don't practise Dorje Shugden, the Dalai Lama said those who still insist on practising Dorje Shugden should leave the current monastery and practise on their own somewhere else, the Dalai Lama asked to move the Dorje Shugden statue from the main Lachi in Gaden to a chapel of its own, the Dalai Lama said his guru is wrong...BUT

Dalai Lama did not say SLANDER YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DON'T TAKE CARE OF YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DESTROY AND BURN DORJE SHUGDEN STATUE
Dalai Lama did not say KILL THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS
Dalai Lama did not say..........

So, which smart alec out there take the initiative to add in the extra steps of SLANDER YOUR TEACHER, STONE YOUR TEACHER'S HOUSE, PUT THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS IN HIT-LIST, DESTROY DORJE SHUGDE STATUES...

Whose smart ideas are these? Whose?

A classic example of interpretation gone seriously wrong or just a serious case of turning or manipulating a situation to benefit one's own cause or selfish aspirations. I too do wonder who's smart ideas these are?

If one truly just looks at the situation with an open mind and unbiased view, one can easily tell what is wrong and right. We may not fully understand why HHDL is doing or saying what HH does, but HH certainly does NOT endorse such violent actions you have highlighted above! Shame to those who do...

Having said that, let us NOT fight fire with fire. Let us continue to educate through skillful and peaceful means as the best way to lift the bad. Use the Sword of Wisdom to combat this unjust "war" and cut away the ignorance.

[Ensapa]

Throughout the whole saga of Dorje Shugden, I realize that the Dalai Lama has been quite consistent in the things he said, the Dalai Lama said don't practise Dorje Shugden, the Dalai Lama said those who still insist on practising Dorje Shugden should leave the current monastery and practise on their own somewhere else, the Dalai Lama asked to move the Dorje Shugden statue from the main Lachi in Gaden to a chapel of its own, the Dalai Lama said his guru is wrong...BUT

Dalai Lama did not say SLANDER YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DON'T TAKE CARE OF YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DESTROY AND BURN DORJE SHUGDEN STATUE
Dalai Lama did not say KILL THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS
Dalai Lama did not say..........

So, which smart alec out there take the initiative to add in the extra steps of SLANDER YOUR TEACHER, STONE YOUR TEACHER'S HOUSE, PUT THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS IN HIT-LIST, DESTROY DORJE SHUGDE STATUES...

Whose smart ideas are these? Whose?

Sometimes in a fervor to get into the good side of the Guru, disciples will often go to extremes when following advice in order to prove themselves to the Guru to follow only certain instructions that they would like while ignoring others. In the process they discard all of the other teachings that has been taught, even if it means harming others to "comply" with the instruction even though it is not necessary.

Since when will the Dalai Lama encourage violence? Never, obviously, but why do the disciples still do it? It reflects the selectiveness of those disciples, doing what they deem is easy for them but not necessarily good. This is one of the pitfalls that we must all avoid when we are following a Guru's instruction.

What is funny and amusing are some centers who reject Dorje Shugden practitioners when the Dalai Lama only said people who follow Dorje Shugden cannot come for his teachings...so the centers equate themselves to Dalai Lama now? hahahahaha. it is so ridiculous...

[Poonlarp]

Yes, totally totally agree!

When I read about the Radio Interview with Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche at
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/index.php?s=chatreng.

it's so unbelievable that it happens in the Buddhist world especially to a very holy Guru. Those people has totally distorted what Dalai Lama said, I wonder where they have left their vows. 

HH the 14th Dalai Lama is the winner of Nobel Peace Prize in the year 1989, for his nonviolent campaign towards China's domination of his homeland. As the emanation of Chenrezig, his good qualities are consistent. Even if DL raised the ban of Dorje Shugden, he has never instructed any violence action, I believe not in the pass, not now, and not in future.

May those who did and are doing bad action they thought they were carrying out Dalai Lama's advice, please chant more mantras to generate more compassion like your Guru.

[DharmaSpace]

Dalai Lama did not say SLANDER YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DON'T TAKE CARE OF YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say DESTROY AND BURN DORJE SHUGDEN STATUE
Dalai Lama did not say KILL THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS

I can't agree more, what Buddhist or monk are we if Care is not in the equation, but many old teachers who have helped the sangha and inducted monks have been ignored and abandoned.
Killing is not Buddhist.
Having a contract out on Buddhist masters is not Buddhist.
Slander is not one of the refuge VOWS.
Destroying spirits, thats not the way Buddhist deal with spirits.
Who is kinder to you? your previous teacher or your current teacher?   

Great insight from Namdrol  /|\

[kris]

It seems to me that CTA (formerly TGIE) has gone the "extra miles" to make their guru Dalai Lama "happy", by doing a lot more things which HH Dalai Lamai did not say.

Yes, HH Dalai Lama did not say slander your teacher, etc, but when people are doing it, why is he keeping quiet? Isn't keep quiet the same as giving the approval for them to continue doing the "extra" things?

[WisdomBeing]

i do tend to agree with Kris. By not publicly disagreeing with or even condemning violence to Shugdenpas, the Dalai Lama is tacitly implying his endorsement.

In this thread about "Ex Abbots expelled/Lamas Targetted" http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=1068.20;msg=21911 I had said:

If the Dalai Lama was not happy with the ex-Abbot being expelled, why didn’t he stop it? I find this rather contradictory. If the Dalai Lama had stopped the expulsion, then it would have sent a strong signal to the Tibetan community that just because the Dalai Lama made a comment like that, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he is accusing anyone or hinting at anything. This would stop the unhealthy atmosphere of paranoia and sycophancy which is currently prevalent in the Tibetan monastic institutions. All it takes is for the Dalai Lama to speak up.

I do realise that the Dalai Lama is perpetuating a particular stance in order to achieve a particular goal and as he is Chenrezig, it must be terrible for him to see the results of his own actions or lack of it. Since I am not at the level of the Dalai Lama, I shall strive to not judge. If the Dalai Lama is not Chenrezig and his actions are flawed, his karma will manifest. I shall look after my own karma by not having negative thoughts.

[vajrastorm]

Yes, we can examine every angle of the uttered words of the Dalai Lama or read every angle of meaning into his implicit endorsement of anti-Shugden actions and atrocities, yet we will never be able to read hie mind or know for sure what his motivations are. Suffice it for me to remember the words of the master of masters Trijang Rinpoche, who has reminded us that we , who have ordinary minds, cannot fathom nor judge the words and actions of Enlightened Beings, like an emanation of Chenrezig, that is the Dalai Lama. If we have faith in Trijang Rinpoche, then we must have faith in the Dalai Lama.

[Ensapa]

i do tend to agree with Kris. By not publicly disagreeing with or even condemning violence to Shugdenpas, the Dalai Lama is tacitly implying his endorsement.

In this thread about "Ex Abbots expelled/Lamas Targetted" http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=1068.20;msg=21911 I had said:

If the Dalai Lama was not happy with the ex-Abbot being expelled, why didn’t he stop it? I find this rather contradictory. If the Dalai Lama had stopped the expulsion, then it would have sent a strong signal to the Tibetan community that just because the Dalai Lama made a comment like that, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he is accusing anyone or hinting at anything. This would stop the unhealthy atmosphere of paranoia and sycophancy which is currently prevalent in the Tibetan monastic institutions. All it takes is for the Dalai Lama to speak up.

I do realise that the Dalai Lama is perpetuating a particular stance in order to achieve a particular goal and as he is Chenrezig, it must be terrible for him to see the results of his own actions or lack of it. Since I am not at the level of the Dalai Lama, I shall strive to not judge. If the Dalai Lama is not Chenrezig and his actions are flawed, his karma will manifest. I shall look after my own karma by not having negative thoughts.

Let's not forget that HHDL has the capability to bear and go through situations that most of us cannot even imagine or comprehend. One of them is having to witness his own Root Lama who discovered and nurtured him, Reting Rinpoche being tortured right below where HHDL is staying. And worst of all he cannot do anything to save his own Lama even though he basically has the political power to do so but he is much too young. I cannot imagine having to go through such a situation at all and HHDL has to go through it. He has taken on painful situations before that are beyond anyone's comprehension, so I am thinking this is another one of those situations that must be really painful for him but he has to go through it for the benefit of the many.

We may not like what is happening, but it would be many times worse for Avalokiteshvara himself to go through all these, yet he has to go through it for the greater good.

[Tammy]

This is a classic example of how people takes advantage of situation to fulfill their selfish aim.
I am sure when sangha members who practice DS were asked to leave their monasteries, those who stay would have made sure they were ripped of their belongings (of course I am referring to a small percentage of the not-so-good monks).

In many instances, DS were used as an excuse, and it is sad to see what is happening right now.

MAY THE BAN BE LIFTED ! SOON ! Because there will not be an reason to 'destroy' DS practitioners anymore.

[Big Uncle]

After reading through most of the posts in this thread, it is clear that it would be pointless to go through the statements by the Dalai Lama that is has been said or not. It is pointless because he is totally aware of the effects of his ban. He has done nothing to retract the ban or condemn the negative actions as a result of the ban. Therefore, I still think that CTA should take an active role to do that.

They should be the one responsible for these actions and not the Dalai Lama. They are all a bunch of adults, who understands the effects of the ban and understands the power vested in them by their office. So, why aren't they doing anything about it? They should implement policies that will sideline archaic policies that persecute and ostracize whole segments of Tibetan society. So, someone should start talking about it in the name of upholding justice in Tibetan society. Who would speak of downtrodden and the oppressed?

[Ratna Shugden]

When disciples perceive their Root Guru & other Spiritual Guides of theirs as worldly beings with worldly motivation, they will please Them like worldly beings with worldly deeds to get into their good books, perceiving that by doing so they will receive more teachings & more blessings, & probably their status within the sangha will elevate. And if during this process, they have the opportunities to fulfill some other self-cherishing desires, they will act upon them.

How do we make all Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, or enlightened Dharma Protectors rejoice? By studying, listening, contemplating, & meditating on Dharma teachings to develop & perfect our Bodhichitta & understanding of the Correct View of Emptiness, using the Dharma teachings to guide all their deeds, & subsequently benefit all sentient beings with all our realizations.

If they regard their Root Guru & other Spiritual Guides of theirs as emanations of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, or enlightened Dharma Protectors, they will do all that I have mentioned in the previous paragraph to please them & not something else.

[DharmaSpace]

Did anyone in the former TGIE or CTA say anything about why the Dalai Lama is pursuing this course of action?
If they did not it just shows the moral fibre of those in charge of the Tibetan parliament. Surely it is not kosher to harm the lives of monks and the Rinpoche's who does not agree to stop doing a particular practise. I find it very hard that the CTA and the lay people can just like lemmings do without thinking about the consequences of their actions, to harass, make life difficult for the Dorje Shugden practitioners lay or otherwise.
 

[vajralight]

Dalai Lama did not say FOLLOW YOUR TEACHER
Dalai Lama did not say TAKE CARE OF YOUR TEACHER

Oh... sorry ofcourse yes, he says this when giving teachings he received from his Gurur Trijang Dorjechang.
And then slanders his own Guru, and his whole lineage saying they were all wrong ....

Dalai Lama did not say DORJE SHUGDEN IS A BUDDHA
Dalai Lama did not say FOLLOW THE DORJE SHUGDEN LAMAS

How about the Dalai Lama just saying, Dorje Shugden is the protector wisdom Buddha of this age, and
that it would be wise and beneficial to make prayers and requests to this protector.

Don't you think many more people would have come to know and practise Dorje shugden than by him banning the practise ??

Vajra

[yontenjamyang]

The Dalai Lama is not so naive as to not know what is happening.He may not have instructed it but he certainly has the power to stop it. I believe he probably stop those atrocious acts too late but he is not totally in the dark.

This is the act of a Mahasiddha to benefit many at the expense of a few.

Isn't this what ancient Emperors did. All for a bigger cause. I await the day the ban being lifted and we will see a clearer picture.