Author Topic: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'  (Read 25684 times)

Namdrol

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China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« on: January 13, 2012, 04:01:37 PM »
I think this article may have come out to retaliate against another news which came out a few days ago about Chinese spies infiltrating into India to assassinate the Dalai Lama, highly possible. The Chinese is paying close attention, so after the news about chinese spies came out a few days ago (in which the Shugden "cult" was the scapegoat again), this news written by the staff writer (who else?) of the Sino Daily came out and blame the Dalai Lama for the spate of self-immolation incidents in Tibet lately.

No matter what, this is good because "Shugden" was mentioned again all over the news, as the saying goes: There is no such thing as bad publicity!

The more the Dalai Lama camp and the Chinese engage in this kind of verbal war, the more famous Shugden becomes, for sure!




see here: http://www.sinodaily.com/reports/Chinas_Tibetan_Buddhists_in_vicious_cycle_999.html

China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
by Staff Writers
Beijing (AFP) Jan 13, 2012

China's Tibetan Buddhists are locked in a "vicious cycle" of radicalisation as an intensifying government crackdown spurs them to increasingly desperate acts of protest, rights groups say.

At least 15 Tibetans have set fire to themselves over the last year. Most have been young monks in their teens or early 20s, but the last self-immolation was perpetrated by a high-ranking Buddhist cleric for the first time.

Sonam Wangyal, reported to be in his 40s, who set himself on fire in the northwestern province of Qinghai on Sunday, was known as a "living Buddha" -- the reincarnation of a line of high-ranking lamas.

Experts say suicide is a major taboo in Tibetan Buddhist culture, and that the senior monk would have been "acutely aware" of the ramifications of his self-immolation for his reincarnation.

"The self-immolation of a living Buddha will confer legitimacy on this kind of protest... It marks an escalation, it is a very worrying trend," Nicholas Bequelin, a Hong Kong-based researcher for Human Rights Watch, told AFP.

"You are going to see more of this. These acts of protests come from a reaction from too much control, but the (government) response is to bring even more repression and control.

"This is the definition of a vicious cycle of radicalisation."

Tibet's spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has expressed concern over the wave of self-immolations, which he blamed on the "cultural genocide" of Tibetans under Chinese rule.

At least nine of the 15 Tibetans who have set themselves alight over the last year have died, while the whereabouts of the others remains unknown as they have disappeared into custody, rights groups say.

Bequelin said the increasingly widespread use of mobile phones and the Internet -- while tightly controlled in Tibetan-inhabited areas -- is also helping spur self-immolations by providing a platform to publicise them.

"This is religious news that has travelled far and wide, it is big news being actively discussed," he told AFP.

"We can see the debate ripple through the community-in-exile -- they are debating whether it is legitimate or not for a good Tibetan to commit suicide."

China blames the Dalai Lama -- who fled Tibet following a failed uprising against Chinese rule in 1959 and is vilified as a "separatist" by Communist authorities -- for much of the unrest in Tibetan-inhabited regions.

The government denies it uses repressive methods against Tibetans, insisting that they enjoy freedom of religious belief and that huge ongoing investment into Tibetan-inhabited areas has greatly raised their standard of living.

But after each self-immolation, authorities have increased security in the area where the incident occurred, which rights groups say has exacerbated the problem.

Hours after Sonam Wangyal's self-immolation, the official Xinhua news agency said senior officials in the region of Tibet had "pledged stepped-up efforts to strengthen the management of monasteries in the fight against the Dalai Lama group".

Officials were urged "to push forward the patriotic and legal education among monks and nuns... and dissuade them from being duped by separatist forces", it said.

"This unprecedented wave of self-immolations is the ultimate rejection of Chinese rule in Tibet," Tenzin Dorjee, director of the New York-based Students for a Free Tibet, told AFP.

"In each of these incidents, the individual carrying out the act of self-immolation has demanded freedom for Tibet and the return of the Dalai Lama."

In an indication of the level of concern over the issue, security forces in Aba -- a county in the southwestern province of Sichuan where most of the self-immolations have occurred -- now carry fire extinguishers with them.

In November, China's public security minister travelled to Aba in Sichuan where he visited the Kirti Monastery -- a flashpoint for the incidents -- and urged monks to be patriotic, state media reported.

Tenzin Lhunzub, a Beijing-based Tibetan scholar at the China Tibetology Research Centre, said self-immolation was an "extreme and negative way of dealing with things".

"It is not a tradition and it is not in our culture," he added.

Despite these concerns, three self-immolations have already occurred since the beginning of the year.

"There appears to be a direct correlation between increasing Communist Party repression of Tibetan Buddhism and... the self-immolations," Kate Saunders, spokeswoman for the US-based International Campaign for Tibet, told AFP.

"For Tibetans, this is a life and death struggle at a dark time in their history, and the self-immolations indicate their resolve as well as their anguish."

Ensapa

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 02:56:25 AM »
Well, Dorje Shugden and Buddhism in China is flourishing like never before, and what is happening in Dharamsala pales in comparison to the development and attention that is given to Buddhism by China (surprisingly, for a communist country!) so the CTA can say whatever they want, but it does not reflect the truth and what is happening in China. And of course, CTA's speech to engage in these sort of things will only pull them further and further away from talks with China which they have been claiming that China does not want to enter talks with them, when in fact they have been hypocritical all along about the whole thing.

Rinchen

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 03:25:18 PM »
This is always the "hot" topic going on between China, and Buddhism.

To me I feel that this article is just another way for the Chinese agents, and non-Shugden practitioners trying to create more differences between the Buddhist community. Playing with those whose minds are not that stable. Making them believe in what they read, and hate what they hate.

I just feel that we should just put this whole issue to a side, I do not think that these arguments and finger pointing would do any good. As those that have chose to self-immolate, are already dead. No point to cry over spilled milk. They should be implementing some rules and regulations to tell those that have the idea to self-immolate as well do not do the same thing.

Ensapa

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 03:37:18 PM »
This is always the "hot" topic going on between China, and Buddhism.

To me I feel that this article is just another way for the Chinese agents, and non-Shugden practitioners trying to create more differences between the Buddhist community. Playing with those whose minds are not that stable. Making them believe in what they read, and hate what they hate.

I just feel that we should just put this whole issue to a side, I do not think that these arguments and finger pointing would do any good. As those that have chose to self-immolate, are already dead. No point to cry over spilled milk. They should be implementing some rules and regulations to tell those that have the idea to self-immolate as well do not do the same thing.

They really should have done that, but instead they went around the bush and said that Nechung said that the self immolations harm the Tibetan cause. Hellooooooo.........if you need Nechung to tell you that, you're retarded because anyone can tell that the self immolations harm the Tibetan cause by destroying the CTA's credibility as China is aware who is really behind the self immolations. Other than the lack of letters and statements asking people to not self immolate, there are regular reports on Phayul on prayer sessions for the self immolators. It sends the message: do you want to be remembered by the CTA? go burn yourself! Very, very bad message indeed.

WisdomBeing

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 03:01:38 AM »
Quote
Sonam Wangyal, reported to be in his 40s, who set himself on fire in the northwestern province of Qinghai on Sunday, was known as a "living Buddha" -- the reincarnation of a line of high-ranking lamas.

I am just curious what people think of suicide of high lamas. Surely all High Lamas who are in control of their death will decide when they wish to pass on, then go into meditation and go into clear light. Is that not the same as self-immolation in the sense that it is self-imposed 'death', only that one is more physically traumatic than the other, but the end result is the same. If high lamas know when to 'pass on' and they perform self-immolation, are they really wrong? Surely the high lama is attained and would know what is positive or not.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

lotus1

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 04:07:13 AM »
For me, I just could not comprehend why a monk, especially a high-ranking lama would commit suicide. According to Buddhism, it is very wrong for killing, whether is killing others or killing own self.  I just wonder this would be another story that CTA is trying to create more conflicts and differences towards Dorje Shugden practitioners.
I hope the self-immolation will be stopped and the Tibetan people are using a more effective way to ask for their freedom. Self-immolation is too extreme and it will definitely making the situation worse as China would think that they are disturbing the harmony of society.

Ensapa

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 07:01:59 AM »
Quote
Sonam Wangyal, reported to be in his 40s, who set himself on fire in the northwestern province of Qinghai on Sunday, was known as a "living Buddha" -- the reincarnation of a line of high-ranking lamas.

I am just curious what people think of suicide of high lamas. Surely all High Lamas who are in control of their death will decide when they wish to pass on, then go into meditation and go into clear light. Is that not the same as self-immolation in the sense that it is self-imposed 'death', only that one is more physically traumatic than the other, but the end result is the same. If high lamas know when to 'pass on' and they perform self-immolation, are they really wrong? Surely the high lama is attained and would know what is positive or not.

It is beyond my understanding as well as to why do tulkus self immolate, because they should have known better and that their purpose for reincarnating is not for the sake of Tibet or for it to end this life by burning themselves when they still have a lot of Dharma work to be done ahead of them. I have also heard that there are many levels of tulkus, ranging from the ones that really work to benefit others, to those who just exist to fill in a position. The level of tulkus is not judged by whether or not they are recognized but their actions.

Rinchen

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2013, 01:03:08 PM »
Dear Ensapa, I think it is just that the Tibetans are not as educated, and might be more superstitious. Hence, if there isn't a religious figure or even Nechung to tell them that they should not do that, they will just think that they are doing their part for their community in ways they can.

If they are as educated and civilized, Dharamsala would be more advanced in things that they have and the living condition would be much much better. Not everyone is fortunate to be born in a civilized country with the comfort to have education and knowledge handed to them by their government. Hence, it is just their negative karma that made them this way.

No point hating them, or even saying rude remarks about them at all.  :D

brian

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2013, 05:20:37 PM »
I believe self immolation is not a way (never a way!) to send out important protest messages anymore simply because it does make bad news for the public eye. Instead of setting oneself on fire and say "hey i sacrificed myself for the independence of Tibet" one should better treat their self better by joining groups to make their voices heard in a far more better way. By setting oneself on fire and killing in the process, they are sending incorrect messages to the world that Tibetans are extremists... my point of view.

Ensapa

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 07:55:44 AM »
Dear Ensapa, I think it is just that the Tibetans are not as educated, and might be more superstitious. Hence, if there isn't a religious figure or even Nechung to tell them that they should not do that, they will just think that they are doing their part for their community in ways they can.

If they are as educated and civilized, Dharamsala would be more advanced in things that they have and the living condition would be much much better. Not everyone is fortunate to be born in a civilized country with the comfort to have education and knowledge handed to them by their government. Hence, it is just their negative karma that made them this way.

No point hating them, or even saying rude remarks about them at all.  :D

I dont hate the Tibetans at all, but it is still sad to see the current state of affairs which could have been improved. The Tibetans should be educated then, which is why China is building schools for them. It's not about being in a civilized country or not, anyone can be tricked to doing something bad that they think is good with the right words so its not an issue of whether or not they are not educated or what. China has caught the TYC agents influencing Tibetans to self immolate, so if it wasnt for those, there would have been less self immolations.

Rinchen

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 10:37:08 PM »
I dont hate the Tibetans at all, but it is still sad to see the current state of affairs which could have been improved. The Tibetans should be educated then, which is why China is building schools for them. It's not about being in a civilized country or not, anyone can be tricked to doing something bad that they think is good with the right words so its not an issue of whether or not they are not educated or what. China has caught the TYC agents influencing Tibetans to self immolate, so if it wasnt for those, there would have been less self immolations.

It is true for what you said. But like what I said, it is because of their lack of education and the opportunity to see the world, that is why they are so self-centered. Thinking whatever that they see is the best, listening to their fellow Tibetans because they thought that they will not harm them, but it is so wrong for even having that thoughts!

Since words are so influential, those that self-immolate can choose to do that under the influence of TYC's words. But if the rest of the countries are willing to step up and talk and educate them, feeding them with the positive attitude that they should have, there will not be these problems at all.

Ensapa

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2013, 05:50:29 AM »
It is true for what you said. But like what I said, it is because of their lack of education and the opportunity to see the world, that is why they are so self-centered. Thinking whatever that they see is the best, listening to their fellow Tibetans because they thought that they will not harm them, but it is so wrong for even having that thoughts!

Since words are so influential, those that self-immolate can choose to do that under the influence of TYC's words. But if the rest of the countries are willing to step up and talk and educate them, feeding them with the positive attitude that they should have, there will not be these problems at all.

CTA and TYC and unfortunately, doing other things with their power of words, and that is to negatively influence all the other countries into thinking that China is torturing Tibet and Tibet needs the help of the world to survive and be an actual country again. It's always on how bad China is, how sad the Tibetans are and how bad their conditions are, but never about actual plans on how to improve the situation, but the westerners still buy this and believe that China is the root cause of the Tibetan problem. Sigh.

bonfire

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2013, 02:47:46 PM »
It is true for what you said. But like what I said, it is because of their lack of education and the opportunity to see the world, that is why they are so self-centered. Thinking whatever that they see is the best, listening to their fellow Tibetans because they thought that they will not harm them, but it is so wrong for even having that thoughts!

Since words are so influential, those that self-immolate can choose to do that under the influence of TYC's words. But if the rest of the countries are willing to step up and talk and educate them, feeding them with the positive attitude that they should have, there will not be these problems at all.


CTA and TYC and unfortunately, doing other things with their power of words, and that is to negatively influence all the other countries into thinking that China is torturing Tibet and Tibet needs the help of the world to survive and be an actual country again. It's always on how bad China is, how sad the Tibetans are and how bad their conditions are, but never about actual plans on how to improve the situation, but the westerners still buy this and believe that China is the root cause of the Tibetan problem. Sigh.


Indeed, that is true, China has done a lot for Tibet in the last few years. Tourists in Tibet can now see restored temples and streets, they can see the improved conditions of life and they can tell the world when they return in their countries. Even outside of China, Chinese/Tibetan lamas do give teachings, sponsored by the government of China.

See here for example: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0

It is only a matter of time for the world to acknowledge that we are not in 1959 anymore, that China has changed and that the situation in Tibet has also changed. China is not the "bad side", a closer look do reveal that the CTA is less of a champion of freedom than China is as the treatment of the Dorje Shugden ban exemplifies.

Ensapa

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2013, 10:38:25 PM »

Indeed, that is true, China has done a lot for Tibet in the last few years. Tourists in Tibet can now see restored temples and streets, they can see the improved conditions of life and they can tell the world when they return in their countries. Even outside of China, Chinese/Tibetan lamas do give teachings, sponsored by the government of China.

See here for example: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3873.0

It is only a matter of time for the world to acknowledge that we are not in 1959 anymore, that China has changed and that the situation in Tibet has also changed. China is not the "bad side", a closer look do reveal that the CTA is less of a champion of freedom than China is as the treatment of the Dorje Shugden ban exemplifies.


I actually like this direction that China is undertaking. The more that they show that they are not abusing the Tibetans and the more they show on how they help build Tibet and serve the people of Tibet, the less credible CTA and TYC will be and the less credible will the anti China propaganda that is spread by many Tibetans and westerners who believe them will be. China should send even more lamas abroad and should make them as huge, big events, and sponsor them to rub it into CTA's faces as they are unable to do the same.

Rinchen

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Re: China's Tibetan Buddhists 'in vicious cycle'
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2013, 08:43:49 PM »
The CTA are just a group of people that are not willing to do any work. Since the time whereby they are at Tibet it is already like that. I believe that if they had proven to China that they are able to rule the Tibetans while they are at Dharamsala, China would have returned them Tibet.

It is clearly seen that the Chinese are playing a part to promote Tibetan Buddhism and Dorje Shugden. If the CTA and YTC really oppose what is being done, they should be promoting and helping the monasteries out. It would be much more useful then coming up with the different schisms for the ban, as well as coming up with the hit list.