Author Topic: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation  (Read 16918 times)

WoselTenzin

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Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« on: July 24, 2011, 05:34:18 PM »
How many times have we fallen to the manipulation of others to do things for them when they lay a guilt trip on us?  It is quite annoying especially when we know but still fall for it.

It always happens when the other party knows that they have got no good reason to ask for help because the help they require is to cover their bad planning, forgetfulness or they simply want to push their work on others out of laziness.  Sometimes it is not even a choice if that person happens to be in the same team as ourselves and his/her failure would also mean the failure of the whole team.  Therefore, we are obliged to “help” them.

After a while, we just say no because we know we are being taken advantage of.  So the next tactic they use is to lay a guilt trip on us. This hit our soft spot and we can't help but agree and at the same time feel extremely annoyed.

From a Dharma point of view, are we even helping such people if we continue to “help” them or are we perpetuating their negative habituation of not taking responsibility?   


 

Big Uncle

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 07:33:53 PM »
Dear WoselTenzin,

I think it would be an act of compassion to talk to this person not to lay guilt trips on you. Confrontation like these don't have to be difficult and if the person is defensive, manipulative and would even lie, then it would be best not to confront yourself but have the facts ready in hand (written or remembered well ahead of time) and call upon your superior or a neutral person to mediate. Don't allow this person to keep doing this because it will affect team work. Harmony and team work is important and I think that is very Dharmic. At the end of the day, you have to let go of past experiences and be ready to work with a clean slate. This is not easy I know but that is also Dharmic to forgive and give them a chance.

kurava

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 03:34:33 AM »
I agree with Big Uncle.

We must not brand people based on our past experience of them. If we think people can't change, then what's the point of practising? If we think people can't change, that means Buddha is wrong because he said all of us can become buddha - the perfect being.

Yes, I understand your frustration, Wosel Tenzin. I suppose when we know of a certain people who  has the strong tendency of manipulating others to get things things done for him/her, we will have to be firm and not be manipulated again by this person because the continuation of this habit will not help him/her in the true sense. Declare it openly to this person that we know his/her trick could be one way of putting a stop to the manipulation.


Positive Change

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 08:33:44 AM »
Dear WoselTenzin,

I think it would be an act of compassion to talk to this person not to lay guilt trips on you. Confrontation like these don't have to be difficult and if the person is defensive, manipulative and would even lie, then it would be best not to confront yourself but have the facts ready in hand (written or remembered well ahead of time) and call upon your superior or a neutral person to mediate. Don't allow this person to keep doing this because it will affect team work. Harmony and team work is important and I think that is very Dharmic. At the end of the day, you have to let go of past experiences and be ready to work with a clean slate. This is not easy I know but that is also Dharmic to forgive and give them a chance.

I agree with you Big Uncle... it has to be a two way traffic so to speak. We cannot just simply ignore the situation or the person and think it will go away. It needs to be confronted but in a way that could be accepting to the individual laying the guilt trip.

If we choose to ignore the person or merely just keep saying no, we are not doing that person or ourselves any good. Many factors involved. Perhaps the person does not see it as a guilt trip and is genuinely asking for help by laying down what will happen if the "job" does not get done. Very often we are quick to jump on such situations and take it out on the person asking for help and even demeaning the person in the process for not having done his or her work. Is that very Dharmic? I don't think so either.

On the other end of the scale, leaving one's work till the very end where we will surely fail and hence having to seek assistance is not very Dharmic either as we have not kept our end of the bargain.

Ultimately we need to assess as a team what needs to be done and how it can be done. Set realistic targets and combine resources to get the job done.

dsiluvu

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2011, 05:28:51 AM »
Question: Why would you feel GUILTY if you are NOT?

No one can really lay any GUILT trip on anyone if the GUILTY is NOT.

This excuse remind me of a person I know very well... this person always says, this and that person scares him, that they always lay GUILT trips on them. Well another wise friend just gave her a simple question back; why do you feel guilty in the first place if you are not. He was dumb founded.

Most of us do not realise this but we often feel guilty because we know we are somehow at fault or how we are behaving is not appropriate and deep inside us we know. So when anyone says anything that points to that fault which we are trying so hard to hide... we react and we start defending.

Yes the mirror has two faces. Ever thought of it that way?

Having say that those who like to put guilt trips on others will also have to check in and see what was the motivation behind it.
Ultimately it is all about motivation and skillful means.

samayakeeper

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 06:49:10 AM »
Most selfish, conceited and lazy people use the 'poor me' story to get what they want or get others do what they don't want to do. Children, and I don't mean young ones, use this tactic on their parents. Most parents yield to such children since young thinking they are helping them. This may lead to bad habits being formed by the children. As the children grow up they naturally use the same tactic in school, at work, in relationship, etc.

If we know of such persons who uses such a tactic we should say 'NO' to them. If we don't, then we too are at fault, just like the parents stated above. We have allowed these people to hurt themselves, us and others. Such people are easily spotted in a team when working on projects. Other team members should take heed and work together to stop such people from dragging the morale of the team down.

Manjushri

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 08:44:15 PM »
I think this is one of the easiest ways for people to get what they demand for - by sending others on a guilt trip. It doesn't require much effort. Sometimes it is intentional, sometimes it isn't. I guess ultimately it comes down to the motivation.

Guilt trips are a form of manipulation, if the ultimate benefit is yourself. It could be getting others to do you work, buy you things that you like, or ordering people around, but eventually the motivation in your thoughts, actions and speech is what differs it from being a manipulation or not.

I do agree; that the onus is on both parties. The person on the side who's giving the guilt trip must realise what they're doing wrong and the person who's receiving the guilt trip has to put their ego down to tell the person off; with the thought of wanting to help them, otherwise both parties will accumulate the karma, I feel.

I think if one needs help, you can give it to them, if it really helps them, but if you are being guilt-tripped into doing it, then I suggest assist them but voice out your concern and dissatisfaction so they know what they're doing wrong and that you've 'caught' their subtle ways in pushing you to do things.

Barzin

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 11:21:21 AM »
Oh yes, I hated when people do that!  It seems like everyone is letting him/her to get away again and again.  People like that make it seem so easy to just do that and get people to work for them.  I like what everyone had just said, there is no point hanging on to hatred and the thought, because it'll just snowball into something bigger which we will only hurt ourself at the end of the day.

If we really think "No" is the answer, then we should be frank about it.  Talk to the person.  If they are stubborn that way, we should remind them again and again.  I mean who likes to be reminded about their wrongs again and again right?  Soon someday they will learn that it is not working anymore and make a change.  Therefore, it is also another way of helping that person.

DSFriend

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2011, 11:49:37 AM »
We experience manipulations daily -- > marketing, adverts, oh those big billboards with pictures of the latest phone etc....

Manipulation is used for commercial gains, by our parents and teachers to get us to behave and be good students, and religion uses it to make us good people.

Manipulation has a negative connotation. But with that said, it does require intelligence, (IQ and EQ), and convincing speech to be able to manipulate others.

Not necessarily a skill to rid off, but i suppose, just like everything else it is our motivation which makes us to be demons or angels.


diamond girl

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 01:25:07 PM »
Question: Why would you feel GUILTY if you are NOT?

No one can really lay any GUILT trip on anyone if the GUILTY is NOT.

This excuse remind me of a person I know very well... this person always says, this and that person scares him, that they always lay GUILT trips on them. Well another wise friend just gave her a simple question back; why do you feel guilty in the first place if you are not. He was dumb founded.

Most of us do not realise this but we often feel guilty because we know we are somehow at fault or how we are behaving is not appropriate and deep inside us we know. So when anyone says anything that points to that fault which we are trying so hard to hide... we react and we start defending.

Yes the mirror has two faces. Ever thought of it that way?

Having say that those who like to put guilt trips on others will also have to check in and see what was the motivation behind it.
Ultimately it is all about motivation and skillful means.


I agree with this one. What is all this fuss about being manipulated with a guilt trip? If you are guilty then even a baby can lay a guilt trip on you. I am sure many parents can relate to this analogy. Is the baby then manipulative?

Look, if you do not appreciate being "used" or you have lots to do already and cannot cope with helping someone else, then just say so. Do not give yourself a martyr trip and then say someone laid a guilt trip on you. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and decisions, even if it includes being manipulated and laid guilt trips.

Manipulation happens all the time, everywhere. It is the motivation behind this manipulation which determines the effects/consequences. Manipulation on its own is merely a technique of influencing people.

Compassion is when you have decided to help someone, no matter how you ended up doing it, do not complain.

Aurore

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 06:46:11 PM »
i dont think anyone can feel guilty if one does what he has to do and do more already. If someone is able to pull a guilt trip on you, it means that you know you ain't doing enough, yet you do not want to help out. If you do not feel guilty, then you should say no if the person is going to shake his/her legs while you do the work. If you do it anyways, get angry and frustrated about it, then it's time to re-look into yourself as well. Tell the person that what he/she is doing is wrong BUT with no anger is the best solution I would think. Saying that, I am still trying to practice doing that!

Klein

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2012, 05:52:26 AM »
How many times have we fallen to the manipulation of others to do things for them when they lay a guilt trip on us?  It is quite annoying especially when we know but still fall for it.

It always happens when the other party knows that they have got no good reason to ask for help because the help they require is to cover their bad planning, forgetfulness or they simply want to push their work on others out of laziness.  Sometimes it is not even a choice if that person happens to be in the same team as ourselves and his/her failure would also mean the failure of the whole team.  Therefore, we are obliged to “help” them.

After a while, we just say no because we know we are being taken advantage of.  So the next tactic they use is to lay a guilt trip on us. This hit our soft spot and we can't help but agree and at the same time feel extremely annoyed.

From a Dharma point of view, are we even helping such people if we continue to “help” them or are we perpetuating their negative habituation of not taking responsibility?

Dear WoselTenzin,

Allowing the person to continue manipulating others to cover his or her laziness is not an act of compassion. Actually, we're allowing them to collect more negative karma. Perhaps using peaceful means to talk to the person using logic to debate, would help the person realise that he can no longer cover his or her laziness.
If this doesn't work, then keep trying other peaceful methods until it works.

I believe that once the person knows that he or she can no longer get away with manipulating, the manipulation would stop. We never give up on others because we are practising compassion.
Thanks.

Gypsy

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2012, 09:56:31 AM »
Oh i hate this kind of people! Manipulative, lazy, selfish, irresponsible people can really piss me off. Normally this kind of people are quite smart, because they know how to manipulate one's mind and make people work for them, so that they can sit back and relax and in the end of the day, they get the credit. Or they use all sorts of poor me stories to hit your soft spot and get your help.

When we encounter this kind of people in life, before we help them, we should examine this person and skillfully correct them. At this point, i do agree with Big Uncle, harmony is the key in team work. Fightings, conflicts, backstabbing are not the substance lead you to success. Give and take, forgive and forget.

Ensapa

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Re: Laying a guilt trips on others - A form of manipulation
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 02:26:39 AM »
Guilt tripping. My family is an expert in this. over the years i have grown resistant to it. They like doing it and I have not much an idea why they think they should do it to their own son. Maybe they think doing this will get what they want, and they will intensify it just to get me to do what they want, disregarding my feelings for it almost completely in most instances and not respecting my time or decision in it as well. I find it very annoying because I can detect it, and they lie, and they pretend, and act and this is my own family. It is quite hard to take and I need to fend them off.