Author Topic: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha  (Read 25996 times)

DharmaSpace

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2013, 04:14:40 PM »
Yes in many trances we see for the worldly deities the deity in the form of an oracle make offering and felicitations to the monks and lamas. However when Dorje Shugden takes a trance, the lamas stand reverently and make offerings to Dorje Shugden. The amount of respect and reverence shown to Dorje Shugden is as if it is welcoming a buddha or a highly realised lamas.

psylotripitaka

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2013, 06:55:15 AM »
Great subject input.

I would like to share the reason that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because I decide he is a Buddha.

It is said that if we view our Guru as a Buddha we receive the blessings of a Buddha. This statement speaks volumes about how our subjective reality is created by our own mind.

First we establish what a Buddha is and how it is possible for such a being to exist. All sorts of things help us establish these things - logic, experience, anecdotes, scripture etc. These things give rise to a conclusive decision in our own mind that Buddhas exist. 

Also, it is said we do not know for sure who is actually Buddha unless we ourselves are a Buddha. So, we can give all sorts of reasons why Dorje Shugden is a Buddha but these are inferential cognizers realizing a phenomena indirectly. By deepening realization we eventually come to know it directly. These are the two types of proof. But really, based on understanding the benefits that come from seeing the Guru as Buddha, we decide to hold that perception. This applies to our view of other people and indeed all phenomena. Through generating and becoming familiar with this view, we come to rest non-conceptually in the meaning of this view, in its nature, which is none other than the conventional and ultimate nature of our own mind that is not separate from the Gurus mind - mahamudra.

There is a function is describing all the things you've shared, but I believe these things about the Protector are underpinned by the things that establish that Buddhas exist, and the two paraphrases I mentioned indicate that it boils down to our own subjective decision based on our belief.

If you believe Buddhas exist, and you decide someone difficult or a difficult circumstance is a Buddha, you will receive the blessings of a Buddha. This is a very profound training and is the reason that Guru Yoga is the quick path. Therefore, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because you've decided he is. And boy o boy, tell me those blessings aren't intense!

psylotripitaka

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2013, 06:57:51 AM »
Likewise, if we view someone as evil, as a demon, as bad, as the object of our aversion, tell me, will you not be haunted by the object created within your own consciousness?

I do it all the time!

fruven

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2013, 06:20:08 PM »
Dorje Shugden is definitely a Buddha. By his actions along which is the same as the works of a Buddha one can therefore conclude his mind is enlightened nature. If that is not the case, how would one conclude Buddha Shakyamuni is a Buddha?

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/10-reasons-why-dorje-shugden-is-a-buddha/

For all the reasons mentioned in the article and if one still consider him a spirit, if spirit existed, why cannot a Buddha exist as well? What are the difference between a Buddha and a spirit/human then?

If one can ask advise from an unknown spirit thru a medium, why not request for help from enlightened being thru an oracle?

christine V

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2013, 09:47:04 AM »
If Dorje Shugden is a not Buddha:-
1) How can the the Dharma been taught when the oracle took trance
2) Why the High Lamas have to pay respect to Dorje Shugden during the trance?
3) Seats on the throne during the trance?
4) Holding Vajra & bell during the trance?
5) How could Dalai Lama been save from the attempt murdered by the Chinese, if not the helps from Dorje Shugden?
6) Why does those high Lamas who have practiced Dorje Shugden are mostly highly reincarnate lamas. E.g Daknak Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche?

Dorje Shugden is definately a Buddha; an enlighten being. A Buddha that is so compassionate to manifest as a protector, to protect, to guide our spiritual practices not only this life but many lifetimes to go. 

brian

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2013, 10:49:34 AM »
If Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha, why would The 5th Dalai Lama himself composed a poem for Dorje Shugden after he manifested as a Protector.  That itself it took how many pujas organized by the followers of The 5th Dalai Lama during the time "he manifested as a spirit after he was killed by the fanatic Dalai Lama followers" as claimed. They did countless pujas to kill off Dorje Shugden but failed miserably. In the end the 5th Dalai Lama composed a praise which is still being recited till today in monasteries to proof that Dorje Shugden is really a Buddha and not as an angry spirit.

maricisun

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2013, 04:52:12 PM »
When Dorje Shugden takes trance - all the Abbots and High Lamas gets blessing from him.
He has a throne to sit in front of the altar.
If Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha why do they want to get his blessings? This indicates very clearly that all the Lamas recognises Dorje Shugden as an Enlightened Being.

Rihanna

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2013, 05:39:39 PM »
I am surprised that this is still a topic to be discussed. Perhaps it is to educate new readers. Dorje Shugden is undoubtedly an enlightened being. I heard that the Panchen Lama has written a prayer to Dorje Shugden too. Has anyone seen these praises?

Kim Hyun Jae

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2013, 08:52:12 AM »
I have known of practitioners who had audiences with Dorje Shugden previously. When Dorje Shugden gives out advices, it is required to be followed through by those who made the request for full result to come true. This is due to the strong faith the practitioner has on Dorje Shugden that the results become fruitful.

As with Nechung who is unenlightened and just like other worldly protectors, he himself need to propitiate and pay homage and make offerings to the Dalai Lama as he is NOT a Buddha.

maricisun

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2014, 04:40:50 PM »
When Dorje Shugden takes trance, all the high Lamas and Abbots goes to DS for blessings and they stand up when he enters the room. DS even has a throne in front of the altar for him to sit.
If Dorje Shugden is not an Enlightened Buddha then how come all the high Lamas goes to him for blessing and not the other way around?
This is one very important point to indicate that DS is not a spirit but a Buddha!

Positive Change

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2014, 10:07:57 AM »
Great subject input.

I would like to share the reason that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because I decide he is a Buddha.

It is said that if we view our Guru as a Buddha we receive the blessings of a Buddha. This statement speaks volumes about how our subjective reality is created by our own mind.

First we establish what a Buddha is and how it is possible for such a being to exist. All sorts of things help us establish these things - logic, experience, anecdotes, scripture etc. These things give rise to a conclusive decision in our own mind that Buddhas exist. 

Also, it is said we do not know for sure who is actually Buddha unless we ourselves are a Buddha. So, we can give all sorts of reasons why Dorje Shugden is a Buddha but these are inferential cognizers realizing a phenomena indirectly. By deepening realization we eventually come to know it directly. These are the two types of proof. But really, based on understanding the benefits that come from seeing the Guru as Buddha, we decide to hold that perception. This applies to our view of other people and indeed all phenomena. Through generating and becoming familiar with this view, we come to rest non-conceptually in the meaning of this view, in its nature, which is none other than the conventional and ultimate nature of our own mind that is not separate from the Gurus mind - mahamudra.

There is a function is describing all the things you've shared, but I believe these things about the Protector are underpinned by the things that establish that Buddhas exist, and the two paraphrases I mentioned indicate that it boils down to our own subjective decision based on our belief.

If you believe Buddhas exist, and you decide someone difficult or a difficult circumstance is a Buddha, you will receive the blessings of a Buddha. This is a very profound training and is the reason that Guru Yoga is the quick path. Therefore, Dorje Shugden is a Buddha because you've decided he is. And boy o boy, tell me those blessings aren't intense!

WOW! I am gobsmacked! I never looked at it this way before... how one's very perception is the root to both blessings and negativeness... I guess that is why in practice we dwell on impermanence and emptiness... because all is not what it seems but how we perceive it to be. But even our own perceptions are muddled with self made doubts.

This is indeed a good practice to dwell on... I am not completely sure if my grasping of what you shared is as what it should be but something makes sense and for that I thank you very much!

Gabby Potter

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2015, 08:31:37 PM »
I agreed. It is so ironic isn't it? That is why I still do not understand why would people call Lord Dorje Shugden a spirit when He's not even close to this term, people just follow blindly. Just because of that one person who doesn't like to eat celery, it doesn't mean all of us have to refrain from eating it right? Same thing, just because one person( CTA ) doesn't believe in the existence of Lord Dorje Shugden, it doesn't mean all of us have to go against His practise.

James Bond

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Re: Proof that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2015, 02:49:41 PM »
Dear Hope Rainbow,

I agree with that you have said. Dorje Shugden is indeed a Buddha in that sense. I mean, when all the high lamas worship him, how can they be wrong? If someone says that Dorje Shugden isn't a buddha, then its like saying that high lamas have no power and are not high lamas. Doesn't make any sense to me. One cannot believe in high lamas and respect them to greatly and still say that Dorje Shugden is not a Buddha. Just a thought.