Author Topic: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind  (Read 14592 times)

WoselTenzin

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Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« on: July 10, 2011, 10:08:37 AM »
Have you met people who are too afraid to put their foot down because they have so much fear of being told of?

Have you met people who know of their love ones committing non-virtuous actions but keep quiet because they are too afraid to confront their loved ones to put a stop it?

Have you met people who will never speak up even if they know the truth that can save another person because they are so afraid of getting themselves into trouble?

There are so many examples of cowardice that we come across everyday in our lives.  It pisses us off when we see it.  We lose respect for people who are cowards.  What is the cause of such cowardice?  Why are some people cowards?   

Big Uncle

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 10:49:50 PM »
Have you met people who are too afraid to put their foot down because they have so much fear of being told of?

Have you met people who know of their love ones committing non-virtuous actions but keep quiet because they are too afraid to confront their loved ones to put a stop it?

Have you met people who will never speak up even if they know the truth that can save another person because they are so afraid of getting themselves into trouble?

There are so many examples of cowardice that we come across everyday in our lives.  It pisses us off when we see it.  We lose respect for people who are cowards.  What is the cause of such cowardice?  Why are some people cowards?  

This is such an interesting thread! Well, based on your definition, I think we are all cowards because we do so little to help others. I think what makes us cowards is the wish not to disturb our 'comfort' and we are used to running away from our responsibilities. We don't want to challenge this 'comfort' because saying something, putting our foot down or speaking up would constitute us having to do something more or would require us to back up what we say with what we do and we don't want that. We are too comfortable doing nothing more for others. (Oh gosh! I am so guilty! Gotta challenge that!)

On the other hand, we may be used to running away from responsibilities for whatever reason. We may be scared to lose, to fail, to lose our reputation or whatever reason. Any of these could be a factor for us reacting (or rather not reacting) towards helping others. Nobody likes confrontation but if we keep escaping from it, the problem will not run away. It will only get bigger. Just because we are a coward for not helping someone, it doesn't mean we escape a problem for ourselves but in fact create more problems and obstacles for ourselves in the long run because of this simple fact! We are social people, we don't live on our own. We depend on people for company, pleasure and assistance so it is our responsibility to fight these internal reasons that makes us unhappy. We need to champion others when they need it the most. We need to help them because there will come a time when we need help ourselves and how we have been treating others will come back to us.

As in the Wheel of Sharp Weapons, the Mahayana text on karma and retribution, we call on Yamantaka, the fearsome Manjushri to trample on this concept of selfish concern and to tear out the heart of this enemy - the concept of only cherishing ourselves.

Helena

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2011, 05:08:56 PM »
The way I see it - our self cherishing mind manifests various responses toward different situations and people. Cowardice is just one of the many complex facets of the self cherishing mind. And don't forget it can also disguise itself as something virtuous but really it is hiding something very 'sinister' deep inside ourselves.

For example, it can fool our minds into thinking that we are not cowards but simply giving the victory to others. So, we choose not to speak up. And we may not realise that it is really covering up our own cowardice. Sometimes we can't even really see what's our true motivation. Hence, I always find it a little suspicious when people tell me that their motivation is pure. How can one really know that for certain, absolutely sure?

There are so many layers and disguises that the self cherishing mind puts up to deceive us.

Personally, for many years I thought I was sincerely practising Dharma and that Dharma was my true goal in life. But when certain situations arose, I found myself finding excuses or reasons (quite naturally and even unconsciously) to do other things but Dharma. Of course, I was too cowardly to admit even to myself that I was more attached to my love for travelling and not sitting in one spot and meditating for days.

The things we fear are the very things we hide from - be it consciously or subconsciously. And we may not be aware about some of these deep seated fears until we are truly "tested". Ordinarily, we may never come across a situation to see through the different layers of ourselves to find the truth. And digging within does require a lot of persistent effort and conviction in wanting to know the truth about oneself.

I used to be very merciless in judging people who are cowards. Then I realised that I was an even bigger coward inside.

So, these days, instead of judging others or losing respect for others, I look at myself and what I have been doing. At the end of the day, humans are really not that different. We are all afraid to experience pain and suffering. And there is no way we will willingly want to endure any pain and suffering for someone else. Because we can't even do it for ourselves.

It is very easy to pass a judgement on others. But when you are placed in a shitty situation, you might react the same way or worse. You won't know until you have gone through it and came out shining.

Personally, I see that our only real motive for doing and saying everything that we do is deeply entrenched in the 8 worldly concerns. Hence, we will do anything we can to uphold our 8 worldly concerns, even it is at the cost of someone else. That is how profoundly self cherishing we are.   
Helena

iloveds

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2011, 06:15:01 PM »
Very true i didn't look at it that way before. 8 Worldly concerns of which wanting fame reputation is always there. When I look at the failures in my life the only way make it not seems so bad is to blow what ever little good or virtuous act out of proportion or to magnify the faults of others to distract from my own.

It's such a natural thing that a normal human being does in preserving the self. You don't get ahead by looking bad right. You don't be the favourite by making others look good do you. That is real world tactics in survival of the fittest. From the high flying corporate world right the way down to the menial labour positions. You can't escape it.

In Dharma it's even more worse as we're supposed to be the total opposite. Hence an outsider will be super sensitive to what they are so used to that in a Dharma situation it will be noticed by eagle eyes.

Positive Change

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 09:38:03 AM »

It's such a natural thing that a normal human being does in preserving the self. You don't get ahead by looking bad right. You don't be the favourite by making others look good do you. That is real world tactics in survival of the fittest. From the high flying corporate world right the way down to the menial labour positions. You can't escape it.


I disagree with this statement as that is a preconceived notion we feed ourselves... that we HAVE to look good to get ahead. That is a misconception that most of us have. On the contrary most successful entrepreneurs DID NOT LOOK GOOD when they got ahead. They did the complete opposite... In fact a lot of successful people will tell you it was a road paved with many difficulties and obstacles purely because they did the opposite of what everyone else did.... kissing butt!

I had a taste of the high flying corporate world and I imagine it is no different from a labourers world i can tell you. Sure the "perks" are different but the problems are the same. No escaping, drama, distrust, dirty politics, hard work etc. Only thing different is the environment in which we do/experience all that!

Hence, yes we are cowards if we chose to stay within our shells however glamourous or unglamourous it may be. And as such it is to a large extent a manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind which exists in all of us. It is how we choose to acknowledge and work on it that makes us a success or a "failure".

iloveds

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 03:25:40 AM »

It's such a natural thing that a normal human being does in preserving the self. You don't get ahead by looking bad right. You don't be the favourite by making others look good do you. That is real world tactics in survival of the fittest. From the high flying corporate world right the way down to the menial labour positions. You can't escape it.


I disagree with this statement as that is a preconceived notion we feed ourselves... that we HAVE to look good to get ahead. That is a misconception that most of us have. On the contrary most successful entrepreneurs DID NOT LOOK GOOD when they got ahead. They did the complete opposite... In fact a lot of successful people will tell you it was a road paved with many difficulties and obstacles purely because they did the opposite of what everyone else did.... kissing butt!

I had a taste of the high flying corporate world and I imagine it is no different from a labourers world i can tell you. Sure the "perks" are different but the problems are the same. No escaping, drama, distrust, dirty politics, hard work etc. Only thing different is the environment in which we do/experience all that!

Hence, yes we are cowards if we chose to stay within our shells however glamourous or unglamourous it may be. And as such it is to a large extent a manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind which exists in all of us. It is how we choose to acknowledge and work on it that makes us a success or a "failure".


Are you saying that the successful entrepreneur is NOT motivated by a SELF CHERISHING MIND?

dsiluvu

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 11:51:49 AM »
The way I see it - our self cherishing mind manifests various responses toward different situations and people. Cowardice is just one of the many complex facets of the self cherishing mind. And don't forget it can also disguise itself as something virtuous but really it is hiding something very 'sinister' deep inside ourselves.

For example, it can fool our minds into thinking that we are not cowards but simply giving the victory to others. So, we choose not to speak up. And we may not realise that it is really covering up our own cowardice. Sometimes we can't even really see what's our true motivation. Hence, I always find it a little suspicious when people tell me that their motivation is pure. How can one really know that for certain, absolutely sure?

There are so many layers and disguises that the self cherishing mind puts up to deceive us.

Personally, for many years I thought I was sincerely practising Dharma and that Dharma was my true goal in life. But when certain situations arose, I found myself finding excuses or reasons (quite naturally and even unconsciously) to do other things but Dharma. Of course, I was too cowardly to admit even to myself that I was more attached to my love for travelling and not sitting in one spot and meditating for days.

The things we fear are the very things we hide from - be it consciously or subconsciously. And we may not be aware about some of these deep seated fears until we are truly "tested". Ordinarily, we may never come across a situation to see through the different layers of ourselves to find the truth. And digging within does require a lot of persistent effort and conviction in wanting to know the truth about oneself.

I used to be very merciless in judging people who are cowards. Then I realised that I was an even bigger coward inside.

So, these days, instead of judging others or losing respect for others, I look at myself and what I have been doing. At the end of the day, humans are really not that different. We are all afraid to experience pain and suffering. And there is no way we will willingly want to endure any pain and suffering for someone else. Because we can't even do it for ourselves.

It is very easy to pass a judgement on others. But when you are placed in a shitty situation, you might react the same way or worse. You won't know until you have gone through it and came out shining.

Personally, I see that our only real motive for doing and saying everything that we do is deeply entrenched in the 8 worldly concerns. Hence, we will do anything we can to uphold our 8 worldly concerns, even it is at the cost of someone else. That is how profoundly self cherishing we are.
   

I must say Helena your thoughts are most dharmic in this thred... yes it is true what you say about how we always judge others before ourselves. I am guilty of that too as we often forget when we point the finger at another 3 more is pointing back at us.

The 8 worldly concerns is a guideline we can definitely use to help curb that tricky self-cherishing ego mind... where we always think we are better then the other. Funny thing is the mind can be so tricky that even the Dharma can be used to manipulate a situation to suite our desired answer.

One thing I know is that all spiritual practice basically tell us the same points and one of them is though shall not judge others. Question to ask is to ourselves first. Perhaps we think we are not a coward and wanna be like martyr could even be yet another ego trip... how would we know?

Positive Change

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2011, 05:36:49 AM »

It's such a natural thing that a normal human being does in preserving the self. You don't get ahead by looking bad right. You don't be the favourite by making others look good do you. That is real world tactics in survival of the fittest. From the high flying corporate world right the way down to the menial labour positions. You can't escape it.


I disagree with this statement as that is a preconceived notion we feed ourselves... that we HAVE to look good to get ahead. That is a misconception that most of us have. On the contrary most successful entrepreneurs DID NOT LOOK GOOD when they got ahead. They did the complete opposite... In fact a lot of successful people will tell you it was a road paved with many difficulties and obstacles purely because they did the opposite of what everyone else did.... kissing butt!

I had a taste of the high flying corporate world and I imagine it is no different from a labourers world i can tell you. Sure the "perks" are different but the problems are the same. No escaping, drama, distrust, dirty politics, hard work etc. Only thing different is the environment in which we do/experience all that!

Hence, yes we are cowards if we chose to stay within our shells however glamourous or unglamourous it may be. And as such it is to a large extent a manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind which exists in all of us. It is how we choose to acknowledge and work on it that makes us a success or a "failure".


Are you saying that the successful entrepreneur is NOT motivated by a SELF CHERISHING MIND?


Dear dsiluvu,

I am sorry if I was not clear... I merely pointed out in that one paragraph of yours equating 'getting ahead by looking good'. Most successful entrepreneurs DID NOT look good while climbing up but the motivation behind the drive is subjective. Perhaps it is a mere drive to succeed and not nescessarily driven by money. In fact most of them are not and even though having tremendous nett worth they still work as hard as they did when they started, if not harder.

One might argue that they have to, to keep the wealth... perhaps that is true too. But let us not discount the tremendous good some of these successful personalities do as well. Take for example Bill Gates and his philantrophic work! If the drive to succeed is to ultimately help others I think that is most admirable and certainly brave and hence in complete opposite to this very thread. So in a way we digress but at the same time it is related in providing the opposites.

Hence in a nutshell, I do not think one should equate success to a Deep Self Cherishing Mind. It could be but certainly not a fact!

samayakeeper

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 01:33:12 PM »
I guess the root problem is we are always protecting the "I." Wise and attained teachers have taught us that the "I" is non existent yet we still protect it at all costs. But if we had rid it we would not still be suffering and be in suffering, would we?

So, where do we start? Search for a guru.

How do we start? By listening and learning and then practicing what our guru teaches us.

When do we start? Today.

iloveds

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 03:47:56 PM »

It's such a natural thing that a normal human being does in preserving the self. You don't get ahead by looking bad right. You don't be the favourite by making others look good do you. That is real world tactics in survival of the fittest. From the high flying corporate world right the way down to the menial labour positions. You can't escape it.


I disagree with this statement as that is a preconceived notion we feed ourselves... that we HAVE to look good to get ahead. That is a misconception that most of us have. On the contrary most successful entrepreneurs DID NOT LOOK GOOD when they got ahead. They did the complete opposite... In fact a lot of successful people will tell you it was a road paved with many difficulties and obstacles purely because they did the opposite of what everyone else did.... kissing butt!

I had a taste of the high flying corporate world and I imagine it is no different from a labourers world i can tell you. Sure the "perks" are different but the problems are the same. No escaping, drama, distrust, dirty politics, hard work etc. Only thing different is the environment in which we do/experience all that!

Hence, yes we are cowards if we chose to stay within our shells however glamourous or unglamourous it may be. And as such it is to a large extent a manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind which exists in all of us. It is how we choose to acknowledge and work on it that makes us a success or a "failure".


Are you saying that the successful entrepreneur is NOT motivated by a SELF CHERISHING MIND?


Dear dsiluvu,

I am sorry if I was not clear... I merely pointed out in that one paragraph of yours equating 'getting ahead by looking good'. Most successful entrepreneurs DID NOT look good while climbing up but the motivation behind the drive is subjective. Perhaps it is a mere drive to succeed and not nescessarily driven by money. In fact most of them are not and even though having tremendous nett worth they still work as hard as they did when they started, if not harder.

One might argue that they have to, to keep the wealth... perhaps that is true too. But let us not discount the tremendous good some of these successful personalities do as well. Take for example Bill Gates and his philantrophic work! If the drive to succeed is to ultimately help others I think that is most admirable and certainly brave and hence in complete opposite to this very thread. So in a way we digress but at the same time it is related in providing the opposites.

Hence in a nutshell, I do not think one should equate success to a Deep Self Cherishing Mind. It could be but certainly not a fact!


I think your message was directed at me "iloveds" and not "dsiluvu"...

My point is that until the mind is focusing on others it will always be self cherishing. Like the concept of "family", like the concept of "business partners", the scope of self cherishing has limits but its still self cherishing.

Great there are successful entreprenuers, sure they work hard and deserve it. But gross or subtle I do believe it is self cherishing.

Motivation can change, but if its focused on success for worldy success, do you not agree its self cherishing?

Can you please explain what you mean by NOT LOOKING GOOD TO GET AHEAD as this doesn't make logical sense to me. What corporate deal is not going to go ahead, or contract one by someone who doesn't look professional or LOOK better than the competition?

Self cherishing, self preserving is what is being discussed here.

Positive Change

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 01:27:38 PM »
Dear iloveds... I do apologise for getting your login name confused with another... :P

1. "Great there are successful entreprenuers, sure they work hard and deserve it. But gross or subtle I do believe it is self cherishing." - I do agree with this statement. You are right in saying this as it is indeed with varying degree so much so sometimes so subtle one does not realise it to be self cherishing.

2. NOT LOOKING GOOD TO GET AHEAD - is meant to illustrate from where one looks.. For example, the boss that is pushing to get ahead may not look good to the employees. In fact the opposite might occur - the employees may see him or her as a tyrant but then things get done and work progresses. Hence from that perspective, one may not "look good" but still gets ahead. :)




Big Uncle

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Re: Cowardice - A Manifestation of Deep Self Cherishing Mind
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 04:54:38 AM »
In Tantra, the ego can be manipulated using Tantric visualisations in order to defeat itself. What I am talking about is to arise as Yidam. The truth is that we spend our whole lives letting our ego run wild and free with all that we do. There's not a moment our ego is not somehow at play. So, when we supplant our egos with the visualisation as ourselves as the Yidam - the anathema to our egos, we eventually assume that state. However, this can only be effectively done with initiation and instructions from the Guru on this. Hence, we develop divine pride that we are one with our yidam. Successful practice makes all our actions of body, speech and mind a tremendous collection of merit.