Author Topic: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?  (Read 14250 times)

triesa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2011, 04:54:26 PM »
Desides all the clear evidents that more people in China, Taiwan and other parts of the world are receiving DS initiation, and that Shar Gaden and Serpom monastries remained intact with even more monks and high lamas joining them, I think one of the reasons why Dalai Lama chose to create all the bad publicity for DS is that the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen is back and is among us!

This is like a preparation or rehearsal for DS to come out to the lime light when the real incarnation is recognised. Whether you are for or against DS, you would like to know who he is, is he a monk now or a lay person living a normal life among us?

The anxiety is built up, DS practitioners have resolved to protect and propagate the practices even more, high lamas are changing camps, more DS monastries are being built world wide in the midst of the ban....and there comes Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen"s reincarnation when the time is right..... It will be a big bang in the buddhist history!

I just can't wait to see this happen!

Barzin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2011, 05:33:13 PM »
I mean, will you doubt a highly being?  If all the high lamas and His Holiness Dalai Lama is said to be what they should be and do.  Who are we to choose a side?  we definitely can't see what they see.  Hence, we are here to learn.  So many are actually talking about Dorje Shugden these days, so many.  Good or bad, who are we to judge? 

In fact, it is simply amazing how this protector's name spread so wide and far.  Like I say, whether you are for or against.  We simply do not have the powerful to bring this protector down.  Why?  Simply, the protector existed hundreds of years ago... and it is still going strong til today.  Whatever we say now will be forgotten, if more people are taking up the practice (look at the chapels, the amount of information, images, statues, monasteries and talks!!!)  There will be lesser and lesser people talking about it.  The ban will be forgotten. 

I definitely believe that the protector can't be destroyed.  If we could, like what everybody said; wouldn't we be able to do it life time ago?  I am really excited of the present reincarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, just wondering where is he, how is he, and what is next.  What a great scholar!  So many people will be benefited...

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 12:31:20 PM »
Desides all the clear evidents that more people in China, Taiwan and other parts of the world are receiving DS initiation, and that Shar Gaden and Serpom monastries remained intact with even more monks and high lamas joining them, I think one of the reasons why Dalai Lama chose to create all the bad publicity for DS is that the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen is back and is among us!

This is like a preparation or rehearsal for DS to come out to the lime light when the real incarnation is recognised. Whether you are for or against DS, you would like to know who he is, is he a monk now or a lay person living a normal life among us?

The anxiety is built up, DS practitioners have resolved to protect and propagate the practices even more, high lamas are changing camps, more DS monastries are being built world wide in the midst of the ban....and there comes Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen"s reincarnation when the time is right..... It will be a big bang in the buddhist history!

I just can't wait to see this happen!

Yes, you are right!  I too just can't wait to see this happen!    I feel that whether it is bad or good publicity /movements of Dorje Shugden, these are dedicated for the grand entrance of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's reincarnation ........

pgdharma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 03:26:54 PM »
It is already proven that Dorje Shugden cannot be destroyed. Personally, all this controversy is to "promote" this powerful practice. You know what they say about publicity?... Nothing spreads faster than bad publicity. This is especially so in today's society where people are generally more skeptical and cynical... perhaps even jaded. Mindsets like this are attracted to controversy and "bad press"... Plus, with the power and unlimited out reach of the internet, websites like this make the publicity move and spread far and wide. So, why not promote "destroying" Dorje Shugden, it attracted me to this thread...
Totally agree with you.  This  controversy has created so much publicity and has  attracted people to check out from websites to find the  truth.  It is through this website that  I have learned so  much about Dorje Shugden as I find this website  very informative.

Why destroy Dorje Shugden  now  when  he cannot be destroyed previously. This is just clear evident that His Holiness Dalai Lama is creating the cause  for the right time to welcome  back the reincarnation of Tulku Drakpa  Gyeltsen. This  method that His Hoiliness is using may not be agreeable to a small group of people but it will have a tremendous impact and  benefit to  a  wider group of people. The manifestation of so many DS temples all over  the world proves that DS is spreading  and flourishing.

dsiluvu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 01:13:48 PM »
Isn't it amazing how bad publicity is still publicity?  8)

Well as a matter of fact, I did not even realise that Dorje Shugden was such a big deal until I heard about the controversy. When I saw what people were making so much noise about. When I read the many forums on this website, when I doubted it cleared so much doubts and encouraged so much more faith. I also gained so much more knowledge reading up of great master's bio, understanding the lineage and history of Dorje Shugden... basically what was deemed such a negative action has in fact created so many positive ones that perhaps even overcomes the negative ones.

So there are some who thinks HH the Dalai Lama is a horrible being for creating this ban, then what exactly do you really think H.H. got out of it in the end... now that we witness the whole change in the political situation of Tibet. If Dalai Lama was so determined to BAN DS forever... why would he want to let go of his power so quickly as the Political Head of Tibet and why not choose one of "his" own people as the Head to ensure they carry out what He wishes???

Gabby Potter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2015, 04:45:25 PM »
I agree with what Dharma Space has written here, the obstacles and difficulties that have arose and still arising are making the Dorje Shugden practitioners stronger and more determined. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger right? There are so much evidences to prove that Lord Dorje Shugden is an enlightened Buddha but people chose to acknowledge the stories made up by some people who are either jealous or ignorant or both.

psylotripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2015, 09:38:18 PM »
I see, so you're all saying that in order principally for Dorje Shugden to become popular - because all Lamas teaching it internationally already just wasn't adequate - it is necessary for Je Tsongkhapa's tradition to be desecrated, for people to be beaten, their shrines destroyed, their families ripped apart, schism in the Buddhist community, Buddhism to become popularly known for being an unreliable religion, medical services/jobs/schooling to be denied, 1000's of practitioners to abandon Dharma, 1000's of people to abandon their Gurus, 1000's of people to engage many heavy negative actions and so forth....that all of this is necessary collateral damage for a Buddhist Deity to become popular, and that all of this is the skillful means of a Buddha.

Could someone please explain how this view is NOT supporting and praising the ban, supporting persecution of living beings, supporting schism and so forth.

psylotripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2015, 09:57:09 PM »
Wait, really, for real, I finally get it, so you're saying since it's amazing how even negative publicity is still publicity, we should persecute Dorje Shugden practitiiners, do slander campaigns about Dorje Shugden and the lineage Gurus, destroy the shrines of people we know practicing Dorje Shugden and so forth, because after all we'd be supporting the skillful means of Buddha Chenrezig. Man, sorry it took me so long to catch on, we are supposed to make others suffer.

But wait, I'm confused, I've thought all this time this website was pro Dorje Shugden. Hmm. Well, at least I finally get what you've all been saying.

Matibhadra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2015, 02:17:13 AM »
Quote
Man, sorry it took me so long to catch on, we are supposed to make others suffer.

And since, according to this view, making others suffer is required by Dorje Shugden so that he may increase his ow fame, it follows that Dorje Shugden is a cruel, unscrupulous, self-cherishing entity.

This is the actual view of those supporting the evil dalie's criminal actions as beneficial and necessary to the spread of the practice of Dorje Shugden.

DharmaSpace

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2015, 09:29:18 AM »
@psylotripitaka

I think you are oversimplifying the matter, there are so many sentient beings involved in this issue, many people with so many diverse and different karma. No one can deny that the number of people who knows about Dorje Shugden has multiplied exponentially, ten years and now. So Dorje Shugden has permeated in many people lives, for those who relied on Dorje Shugden, DS may have been the only glimmer of hope for the millions and millions of people. Yes many sentient beings have been blessed and saved by Dorje Shugden.

Can we suffer, if we do not have the karma to? For me people who are suffering due to Dorje Shugden ban have their very own karma, the Dorje Shugden ban could have been just a trigger for it. The karma is already dormant in their mindstreams and it just got triggered?

psylotripitaka

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2015, 02:02:08 AM »
Dharmaspace, I have replied to you via the call for an apology thread. Thank you for reading and responding.

Matibhadra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2015, 04:34:37 AM »
Quote
No one can deny that the number of people who knows about Dorje Shugden has multiplied exponentially, ten years and now.

And for sure such number would increase even more if the evil dalie, for instance, would openly order the murdering of every Shugdenpa. The little known tradition of Shugdenpas would appear in all the headlines, and become world famous! But this you would see as wonderful, right?

This is because you are motivated by mundane concerns such as the desire for fame and popularity. Your obsession with such concerns made of you an unscrupulous sadist, all too happy to see the suffering of others just because it might bring some media attention to your religious label.

Quote
Can we suffer, if we do not have the karma to?

You are looking for an argument to justify criminality. Since the crime's victim alone is to blame for their suffering, the criminal should be given free hands to perpetrate their crimes. Therefore, the evil dalie's crimes should be supported and appreciated, because he is just implementing the karma of his victims.

You want to replace the Buddhist idea of compassion, which wishes to reduce the suffering of others without making any judgments about their guilt or lack thereof, with the Jewish-Christian judgmental concept of a deserved punishment of the powerless resulting from some imagined, previous violation.

This shows that you are anything except for a Buddhist. Your twisted, depraved conceptions turned you into a unscrupulous zealot, coldly blaming the powerless victim for their suffering, while praising the perpetrator for inflicting on their victims the suffering they supposedly deserve because of their faults.

This shows as well that it does not help to label oneself a “Buddhist” or a “Shugdenpa”, and that such religious labels may easily become just the convenient cloak to hide one's most obnoxious, bestial instincts. You believe in evil, and to you Buddhism is just a tool to rationalize your actual belief.

Quote
For me people who are suffering due to Dorje Shugden ban have their very own karma, the Dorje Shugden ban could have been just a trigger for it.

Which according to you makes of the criminal pulling the trigger a saint worth being called “His Holiness”.

Besides, you are all too happy that the trigger is pulled by such criminal, because you greedily foresee the media attention your religious label will get.

Quote
The karma is already dormant in their mindstreams and it just got triggered?

This you please tell the rest of us, when the dormant karma in your mindstream resulting from your sadistic views and actions gets triggered.

tingtong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2015, 08:04:25 AM »
Agree with the comment mention.. if it doesn't benefit anyone. This will not have continously practitioner practising Dorje Shugden..

There is always a reason why it could last till this point.. and with the world Internet is so well establish, it will only benefit more and more...

Pema8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2015, 02:05:22 AM »
It is for sure not easy to accept people getting threatened, beaten, expelled from their community and not being able to have access to health care and food.

But when I look at it from the perspective that Dorje Shugden will spread far and wide through the injustice done and reports about the persecution it takes a different angle and I can see that the motivation is different. It is not the action but the motivation which makes the difference.

May the ban come down quickly and smoothly.

Matibhadra

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2015, 10:22:38 PM »
Quote
But when I look at it from the perspective that Dorje Shugden will spread far and wide through the injustice done and reports about the persecution it takes a different angle and I can see that the motivation is different.

Which means that, according to you, it doesn't matter that other people suffer every kind of injustice and violence, as long as your religious brand expands far and wide.

You are therefore not different from Islamic State or Boko Haram terrorists, capable of every inconceivable atrocity for the sake of the expansion of their religious brand.

In short, your motivation is that of a terrorist zealot.

Quote
It is not the action but the motivation which makes the difference.

But since your depraved motivation to support the ban is that of a terrorist, where then is your difference?