Author Topic: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?  (Read 14251 times)

DharmaSpace

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Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« on: June 08, 2011, 12:44:44 PM »
I was mulling over this for some time. I mean from the 6th Dalai Lama till the 13th Dalai Lama I'm sure the Dalai Lamas had ample time to wipe out the Dorje Shugden practice?

Why wait until the practice has spread all over the world via internet, migratory movements and so forth. If the Dalai Lama moved against  dorje shugden whilst all the lamas were still in Tibet it would have been much easier to contain.

Now one click of a button and information is shared across the WWW ( World wide Web) .  Now more centres and monasteries dedicated to Dorje Shugden being built all over the world. Wow this is like fighting a war on many fronts. Bad choice for the Dalai Lama or so we think.



dsiluvu

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2011, 06:22:48 PM »
 This is a very good logical question Dharma Space...

We can see from these wonderful videos how much more Dorje Shugden practice is being spread like wild fire in Tibet itself...
So while there is such a huge difficulty in practicing DS openly in Dharamsala and Nepal...thousands are getting initiation of Dorje Shugden in Tibet/China/Taiwan etc. And I doubt that the Dalai Lama did not see this coming... otherwise we can say it is plan that has hugely backfired and well people are practising even more then before with greater devotion.

This is an inspiring video on this site.   

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8039

WoselTenzin

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2011, 02:45:02 PM »
I was mulling over this for some time. I mean from the 6th Dalai Lama till the 13th Dalai Lama I'm sure the Dalai Lamas had ample time to wipe out the Dorje Shugden practice?

Why wait until the practice has spread all over the world via internet, migratory movements and so forth. If the Dalai Lama moved against  dorje shugden whilst all the lamas were still in Tibet it would have been much easier to contain.

Now one click of a button and information is shared across the WWW ( World wide Web) .  Now more centres and monasteries dedicated to Dorje Shugden being built all over the world. Wow this is like fighting a war on many fronts. Bad choice for the Dalai Lama or so we think.



I think the possible reason is Dalai Lama is not trying to wipe out Dorje Shugden practice but instead doing his best to spread and promote it.  Although the method he used may not be agreeable to many people and many people cannot see the logic of his actions if this is really the case, the undeniable result is Dorje Shugden practice is spreading like wild fire throughout the world amidst all the unfavourable conditions.

Like what DharmaSpace said, Dalai Lama had between his 6th and 13th incarnation to destroy Dorje Shugden practice.  Why do it now when it is so much tougher.  It simply doesn't make sense.

Actions of higher beings are beyond the understanding of ordinary beings as they can see far into the future and will always work for the long term benefit of all beings.  Ordinary beings have limited faculties and are not even able to forsee what's going to happen tomorrow.

Therefore, if we fall under the category of ordinary beings, it's best not to criticize or condemn any actions of high beings such as the Dalai Lama.  Criticizing beings of higher merits than us can bring severe negative karmic consequences.  It would be much better if we put our energy into improving our practice or think of how to bring the Dorje Shugden practice that has benefit us tremendously to others.

Furthermore, Dalai Lama is the face of Tibetan Buddhism and many people came to embrace Tibetan Buddhism because of him.  If we criticize Dalai Lama and destroy their faith in him for whatever good reasons we may think we have, we are inadvertently destroying the faith of these people and their spiritual path. 

Also, criticizing others arises from our delusion of being adverse to our perceive foes and will get us nothing but bad karma that will bring us suffering,  No matter which angle you look at it, criticizing the Dalai Lama or anyone for the matter is not the way to go.

DharmaSpace

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2011, 11:44:29 PM »
This is just my feeling, the ban and the difficulties arising from it has made the practitioners have greater resolve to carry on the lineage practices and work to preserve our tradition even much more than before.

I feel a greater sense of appreciation of our lineage lamas and practices those that we still have now. Much more beings and people know about dorje shugden much creative work have gone into this website for example, coming up with illustrated stories, brochures and so forth every interesting methods for interesting times. I wonder what else is new coming from this site I can't wait , always so innovative and creative.

diamond girl

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 08:03:28 PM »
It is already proven that Dorje Shugden cannot be destroyed. Personally, all this controversy is to "promote" this powerful practice. You know what they say about publicity?... Nothing spreads faster than bad publicity. This is especially so in today's society where people are generally more skeptical and cynical... perhaps even jaded. Mindsets like this are attracted to controversy and "bad press"... Plus, with the power and unlimited out reach of the internet, websites like this make the publicity move and spread far and wide. So, why not promote "destroying" Dorje Shugden, it attracted me to this thread...

Big Uncle

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 05:13:16 AM »
Well, just like Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, you can drown him, poison him, stab him and burn him, he will still live. However, if you use a khata to smother him out. You will unleash the force of a 1000 Dharma Protectors. That's what I believe the Dalai Lama is doing, smothering his practice with in the Tibetan Community so 1000 Dorje Shugdens will arise around the world. The biggest, naturally will be in China due to obvious reasons.

DharmaSpace

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 06:31:06 PM »
Certainly this site has worked diligently to promote our lineage lamas. One of the major beenfits of this site is that it highlights the richness and depth of knowledge of the lamas within our tradition. Something we should really be proud of and we should develop great faith in the Lama Tsongkhapa tradition.

I fold my hands to the people on this site, and dorje shugden who have enriched my view and knowledge about the people who are keeping our lineage alive and well in this degenerate age. I never knew who the great lineage lamas are and what great deeds they have done until I stumbled upon this site. 

Helena

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 08:05:54 PM »
Well, just like Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, you can drown him, poison him, stab him and burn him, he will still live. However, if you use a khata to smother him out. You will unleash the force of a 1000 Dharma Protectors. That's what I believe the Dalai Lama is doing, smothering his practice with in the Tibetan Community so 1000 Dorje Shugdens will arise around the world. The biggest, naturally will be in China due to obvious reasons.

Big Uncle, what a beautiful way of looking at this! Love what you wrote!

I am sure our collective karma may be so bad that such intense purification need to come about in this way before something better and greater can manifest. As it is, our individual karma is bad enough. Just imagine an entire community of Shugden Practitioners! So, whatever hardships that we need to undergo, perhaps it is a very necessary phase to endure with a Dharmic mind and motivation.

After all, if we do not practice even more now, then when?
There is no such thing as a better time or place. It is here and now.

We may not even live to be around to witness anything. Who knows if tomorrow might never come for us. What then?
Under whatever circumstances, we practice and continue to practice. Sometimes, even more than before because our bad karma need to be purified as much as possible.

Nothing good can take place or come to be, if we didn't create the right causes for it, have the merits to be a part of it or have the karma to experience it all.

Helena

Vajraprotector

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 08:35:46 PM »
I agree with Big Uncle. It is highly possible. We all know that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the authority when it comes to what is "right" and what is "wrong" in the Tibetan community.

The fact that His Holiness has not instructed a clampdown on the Shugden monasteries - Shar gaden and Serpom, that means His Holiness is not out to ban the practice totally. If I were His Holiness and I wanted to really impose a ban, I could just ask the TGIE to close down the monasteries, but that didn't happen.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2011, 04:24:58 PM »
I agree with Big Uncle. It is highly possible. We all know that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the authority when it comes to what is "right" and what is "wrong" in the Tibetan community.

The fact that His Holiness has not instructed a clampdown on the Shugden monasteries - Shar gaden and Serpom, that means His Holiness is not out to ban the practice totally. If I were His Holiness and I wanted to really impose a ban, I could just ask the TGIE to close down the monasteries, but that didn't happen.



Hi Vajraprotector,

That is an interesting point. After all, these two Shugden monasteries are still in the Tibetan refugee camp which was under the political purview of the Dalai Lama until recently.. Could the Dalai Lama have closed these two monasteries? Does he have the power to do so? I'm also curious - are there Tibetan churches to accommodate the non-Buddhist Tibetan refugees?
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

beggar

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 04:47:04 PM »
Technically, the Dalai Lama and TGIE have already "clamped down" as much as is possible on Serpom and Shar Gaden. I believe they do not receive ANY welfare or financial help anymore from the TGIE. They are completely cut off from the Tibetan community in exile. If I'm not mistaken, they also are no longer permitted to hold Tibetan passes (the yellow card) and may have to be Indian nationals.

Legally, I believe the Dalai Lama / TGIE have no jurisdiction over the opening of these monasteries. There is freedom of religion in India so as long as they are on Indian land, those monasteries would be allowed to exist; the TGIE have no right or say to close it down.

So I believe that these two very brave monasteries are functioning as completely independent monastic institutions now, the are beyond the governing laws of the TGIE.

Then again, perhaps this is also a part of the Dalai Lama's foresight - when set so completely away and separate from the TGIE, they are "forced" to develop new methods, new ways and not be bogged down by the old politics and restrictions of this old, archaic government. Surely the DL knows how backwards this TGIE is! It is compassionate of him, perhaps, to "force" them out - by doing so, they have only become even larger, more prominent than ever, and growing very, very, very fast.

shugdenprotect

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2011, 05:20:00 PM »
I agree with Diamond Girl and Big Uncle, like the saying "the truth will prevail"...Dorje Shugden the Great Protector's practice will prevail and benefit many.

Perhaps the new method to spread Dorje Shugden's practice by "destroying" it is the way that best fits the minds of today's time. It is ironic how people are attracted to bad news. If we observe, we will notice that the word of mouth for bad news is often much more powerful. Therefore, for the practice of Lord Dorje Shugden to flourish in the 21st century, this skillful method is required.

Helena

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2011, 10:48:55 PM »
WB, you raised very valid points.

If it is within HHDL and TGIE's powers and authority to do more than just clamping down on the monks and monasteries - then why are the two monasteries still there?

I mean, if it is really within their power to totally shut them down and even prohibit them from being built, why are HHDL and TGIE allowing them to do so, especially when we know how 'adamant' they are about the ban.

If they wanted to and if they could, these two monasteries should not even be allowed to stand to this day on their so-called exiled-land, isn't it? And Shar Gaden and Serpom still stand to this day. Even allowing more monks to come into their monasteries, and expanding in their development and building.

Can someone please clarify or enlighten us?
Helena

diamond girl

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2011, 02:46:18 PM »
WB, you raised very valid points.

If it is within HHDL and TGIE's powers and authority to do more than just clamping down on the monks and monasteries - then why are the two monasteries still there?

I mean, if it is really within their power to totally shut them down and even prohibit them from being built, why are HHDL and TGIE allowing them to do so, especially when we know how 'adamant' they are about the ban.

If they wanted to and if they could, these two monasteries should not even be allowed to stand to this day on their so-called exiled-land, isn't it? And Shar Gaden and Serpom still stand to this day. Even allowing more monks to come into their monasteries, and expanding in their development and building.

Can someone please clarify or enlighten us?



Perhaps the “power” we think HHDL on this ban is not exactly in full authority i.e. legally in India. I will not profess to know Indian law but I can imagine that even in refugee camps the land of the soil still prevails.

People have religious freedom in India. As such if these monasteries get clamped down and hostile upheavals arise, it would be catastrophic. Moreover, many here believe that this ban is to actually keep Dorje Shugden practice alive. On the same line of thought these monastries are left to exist and grow. Like Beggar said, financial funding has been stopped, I guess this is as much “clamp down” to be done to show the “power”. It is my thought that HHDL has no intention to clamp down but to make the ban look real he did cut the funds. HHDL does need to keep the Ban alive so that the practice will too.

Rihanna

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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2011, 04:17:32 PM »
This is a very good logical question Dharma Space...

We can see from these wonderful videos how much more Dorje Shugden practice is being spread like wild fire in Tibet itself...
So while there is such a huge difficulty in practicing DS openly in Dharamsala and Nepal...thousands are getting initiation of Dorje Shugden in Tibet/China/Taiwan etc. And I doubt that the Dalai Lama did not see this coming... otherwise we can say it is plan that has hugely backfired and well people are practising even more then before with greater devotion.

This is an inspiring video on this site.   

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8039




I agree with you. While this little group of people in Dharamsala are going on their Dorje Shugden witchhunt, the 1.33billion Chinese, 23mil Taiwanese and the millions more on other parts of the world are spreading and practicing this Dharmapala.