Author Topic: Dorje Shugden oracle takes trance while Lama Thubten Phurbu giving Dharma talk  (Read 12368 times)

Mana

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Click here to watch the video:

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8331



Lama Thubten Phurbu is a highly respected teacher in Kham, Tibet. He is outspoken about Dorje Shugden and brings Shugden's practice to many.

In Lhasa, there are three oracles to Dorje Shugden.  One of them is a young oracle who has been taking trance. Here you can see during a dharma talk, Shugden is very pleased and enters the oracle to show his pleasure. Stays for just a short while and then departs.

In Tibetan Monasteries this is a 'common' and accepted sight for recognized oracles.

It is beautiful how Shugden lets everyone know he is pleased with the teachings.

Mana
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 09:13:17 PM by Mana »

Zach

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That was Wrathful Shugden then I take it  :)
Can someone explain how it denotes Dorje shugden is pleased ?

LosangKhyentse

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Shugden always takes trance during Dharma talks in India and Tibet. When he does, he stays for a few minutes. His appearance itself is automatically a clear sign of his pleasure. He is letting everyone know by appearing, he 'joins' in and rejoices. Sometimes he will rise and make offerings of khata and tensum to the Lama teaching and then leave quickly during the talk. Many of my friends have witnessed this. I have also.

Many of the old lamas welcome this and they stay still during the trance. When he is leaving the body, the lamas will assist the oracle because they know who has just arrived.

TK

Big Uncle

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This is beautiful to see and a clear indication of Dorje Shugden's intention as a Dharma Protector. It is beautiful to see because that is his whole purpose and the very reason why he came into being - the Dharma or more specifically, the propagation of Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition. We are very fortunate to meet with such a wonderful and powerful Protector that is enlightened and the same mind stream as Manjushri.

Zach

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Shugden always takes trance during Dharma talks in India and Tibet. When he does, he stays for a few minutes. His appearance itself is automatically a clear sign of his pleasure. He is letting everyone know by appearing, he 'joins' in and rejoices. Sometimes he will rise and make offerings of khata and tensum to the Lama teaching and then leave quickly during the talk. Many of my friends have witnessed this. I have also.

Many of the old lamas welcome this and they stay still during the trance. When he is leaving the body, the lamas will assist the oracle because they know who has just arrived.

TK

Thats Wonderful !  ;D

Losang_Tenpa

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Powerful!! Amazing to bear witness to this.

Dorje Shugden is known to have entered into a young monk here at Gaden when the news was announced of the death of Kyabje  Dagom Rimpoche. This particular monk is a very quiet and mild mannered young man, but became very fierce and wrathful in much the same way as the monk in this video.

Roberto

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Wow, so Dorje Shugden can just appear anytime anywhere and in anyone?

I probably will never get the opportunity that so many in this forum have have the fortune of witnessing firsthand. Neither is this common knowledge to outsiders visiting places like Gaden. Its all closed doors I take it and not common knowledge to outsiders like myself.

Thanks to those who post this would I be right to call it "phenomenon" don't really think the word does it justice.

Helena

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What a powerful and beautiful video!

Thank you so much for posting this.

I think by merely appearing and taking trance in the oracle, The Protector does more than show his pleasure. It also reinforces the faith students should or would have in their Gurus. I have been told several times that all the Protectors bow to the feet of the Lamas for it is the Lamas who are perceived to be above them. This is why, the Protector would even serve tea or offer the khata to the Lama first. It is a clear sign of deep respect as well as rejoice. Without the Lamas and Gurus who continue to turn the wheel of Dharma, Dharma cannot grow or spread. Therefore, the Lamas are of utmost important. As long as the Gurus are teaching and students are listening and learning, it is definitely a cause to rejoice.

It's always such a moving experience to watch the Oracle take trance.

Thank you again.
Helena

WoselTenzin

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Shugden always takes trance during Dharma talks in India and Tibet. When he does, he stays for a few minutes. His appearance itself is automatically a clear sign of his pleasure. He is letting everyone know by appearing, he 'joins' in and rejoices. Sometimes he will rise and make offerings of khata and tensum to the Lama teaching and then leave quickly during the talk. Many of my friends have witnessed this. I have also.

Many of the old lamas welcome this and they stay still during the trance. When he is leaving the body, the lamas will assist the oracle because they know who has just arrived.

TK

In this day and age, to be even able to hear of Dorje Shugden taking trance in an oracle never fails to amaze me. Knowing that Dorje Shugden's appearance is his way of rejoicing on the Dhama talks and that he is pleased makes me feel that he is always watching and protecting us.  It makes me feel that he is close to us.

I am sure for those who have witnessed the trance, the experience would be even more impactful.  It would make their faith in Dorje Shugden even stronger.  This occurances definitely ties in with the symbolism of Dorje Shugden wearing tiger skin boots to show that he appears in the disguise of a worldly god who is closer to us ordinary beings and easier to propitiate.

I thank Mana for posting this video.  It gives an insight on how Dorje Shugden manifest itself to ordinary beings like myself which we would never have the chance to see if not for this video.   

triesa

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Dorje Shugden is truely a dharma protector for Tsongkhapa teachings. His taking tance in the monk  is clearly an indiaction in his rejoicing with Lama Thubten Phurbu giving Dharma discourse in the monastery.

I personally have the great fortune to witness the DS oracle taking trance in Nepal. The energy was extremely wrathful. The breathing sound of the oracle was short and quick. I remembered Dorje Shugden stayed for a little while, gave his blessing and threw out blessed rice to everyone there. Then came his attendant Kache Marpo taking trance in the oracle, the energy became much more peaceful. It was through Karche Marpo that one by one, our questions were answered.

I was told later that becasue of the wrathfulness of the energy, Dorje Shugden sometimes could not stay too long in the oracle and had to give quick blessing and leave. He would then send his attendant Karche Marpo to answer any questions the audience would ask.

If we look closely to the hand mudra of the monk taking trance during Lama Thubten Phurbu giving dharma talk, you will see that it was Dorje Shugden himself taking trance. The mudra of the monk  in trance conformed to the mudra of the main form of Dorje Shugden.

Thank Mana for posting this wonderful video for all to see and share.

 

Zach

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Ah I see so the mudra was in fact Dorje shugden holding his wisdom sword !  :D
A Wonderful signal !  ;D

triesa

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Yup, Zach, that's how I diffrentiate Dorje Shugden from Karche Marpo taking trance. When karche Marpo takes trance, his right hand will be facing inwards as if he is holding his club.

dsiluvu

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Thank you for this video!

Watching the oracle take trance of Dorje Shugden is like watching "God" (limited by the English language) appear before you. The protectors are very kind to actually take trance in an oracle to show us that "he is for real". This reaffirms ones faith and devotion.

I've also heard that the Dharma protectors are always respectful of the Lamas, as they work hand in hand to spread the Dharma. Their oath is to the Lama and they will do as the Lama request them to. High Lamas are able to create oracles and they are subject to some intense training, retreat and meditations before they are qualified. I wonder how does a Lama pick a person to become an oracle? What are the criteria's? Does anyone know and can a lay person be chosen to also be an oracle?


LosangKhyentse

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I wonder how does a Lama pick a person to become an oracle? What are the criteria's? Does anyone know and can a lay person be chosen to also be an oracle?

1. A Lama may pick a person and train them. Some people have very strong aptitude towards this. Some the Lama feels would benefit greatly by being a oracular link for beings to give directions.

2. A person may ask to become a oracle and the Lama may accept or not accept for various reasons. So it is possible for a person to request, but they must go all the way and it's a lifetime of work. Your moods and personal wishes must be set aside to serve others. You must keep up your retreats, practices and samayas with your Lama very strictly for your whole life. The more retreats you do, the more immaculate your body will be to do the job as an oracle.

Retreats such as Tsongkapa/Migtzeyma are crucial. Samaya with your lama is the one single point that is very important for your retreats to be successful.  Yamantaka is very powerful for clearning the body of interferences and opening chakras, winds, drops for the deity to 'easily' enter your body with minimal of pain after He leaves. And of course retreats of the actual deity entering you to get 'close' to them is very essential throughout your life. Remember, these retreats to Tsongkapa, Yamantaka and Shugden should not be done just so you become a good oracle, but to reach the highest purpose of life, which is to be enlightened. Your goal for retreats should never be anything but enlightenment. Becoming a good oracle is just a by product. Also in this case, by being an oracle, some can collect alot of merits by helping others. By helping others, you collect tremendous merits to actualize the generation and completion stages of Tantra such as Yamantaka.

Lord Buddha and Tsonkgapa taught for example the Yamantaka tantras for us to purify the powerful negative karmas from unlimited lifetimes that serve to obscure us from the truth and therefore stay in samsara. Yamantaka is for us to gain wisdom into reality (emptiness), and to attain the everlasting great bliss (enlightenment). Countless individuals by relying on Yamantaka practice have attained great wisdom, understanding, power to take rebirth as they choose to benefit, bodhicitta, emptiness and of course full enlightenment. So something as great as Yamantaka's practice or Tsongkapa's retreat should never be done with just the motivation of being a good oracle.

3. The deity Himself may pick the person he will inhabit. This happens quite often. The person the deity inhabits can be short term or long term. Meaning sometimes the deity picks a person to become a full fledged oracle or He inhabits the person once or twice to give a message or sign and that's it. But even if the Lama or deity picks you, you have to do the retreats, hold samaya, be very determined against all odds to do this for the rest of your life. You have to do your part and not just relax and think you've been picked so the Lamas/deity does all the work.  Being an oracle is like any other dharma practice, you have to do your part, then you collect merits and wisdom will arise. Your wish to serve others must be steadfast. If you don't do your part, whether the deity or Lama picks you, you cannot fulfill the duties of the oracle. Is the Lama or deity wrong? Of course not. Tsongkapa taught Lam Rim, if we don't practice or give it up, it's not Tsongkapa's fault.

TK



dsiluvu

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Thank you TK for a clear, concise explanation about oracles. Your knowledge and inputs in this forum has definitely helped me understand better and answered a lot of questions.

Knowing that a lay person can also be picked to be an oracle just goes to show that whatever Buddha has taught is so true... that nothing is impossible if we are sincere and have the right motivation.

The tradition of oracles is surely something we ought to preserve especially during this degenerate times as many often do not have enough merits to just trust the Lama completely and follow what the Lama advices. It can benefit so many people greatly who are at different levels of their practice... and what is amazing is Dorje Shugden is the only protector that takes trance and gives a "Dharma teaching or advice", even Setrap does not do that. This just goes to show what type or level of Protector he is... Dorje Shugden is like a Lama and definitely an Enlightened protector. 

The Lamas are indeed very kind to educate their students about this great tradition and practice... like Lama Gangchen who brings his students to meet the DS oracles
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I have also heard that sometimes when a student has done something wrong, or has broken samaya, the protector or Kache Marpo would even point them out or sometimes out of compassion shake them...has anyone experienced this?