Author Topic: Anti-Shugden Chakras  (Read 49588 times)

thaimonk

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 02:28:53 PM »
How many pujas since the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama (350 years) till current times has been done to destroy Shugden? How many hundreds of fire pujas, rituals, binding rituals, excorcisms, wrathful practices done by the Dalai Lamas themselves, regents, heads of other schools of Buddhism, the Mindroling Rinpoches, Sakyas, Namgyal Monastery, Sera Je Monastery??? It is beyond count. Why is it that NOT ONE SINGLE LAMA, MONASTERY OR RITUAL CAN DESTROY, BIND OR CAPTURE DORJE SHUGDEN??? Doesn't it seem futile already so many great lamas like the Dalai Lamas himself have tried to bind Shugden and even he cannot?

What is that saying to you? Shugden is Manjushri beyond a doubt and no harm can ever come to Manjushri. Clear and simple. All the rituals done against Shugden only serve to show you how he cannot be destroyed. If Shugden is a demon, then surely the Dalai Lama would have more power and be able to bind him easily.

With so many rituals, pujas and lamas for 350 years proving ineffective to destroy Shugden, what's one chakra from Dudjom Rinpoche going to do?


Helena

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2011, 06:48:14 AM »

I have to say that I really love the two statements below made by Mana and Thai Monk.


"No chakras can 'protect' you from the blessings of a Buddha such as Shugden, only your closed minds." - Mana

"With so many rituals, pujas and lamas for 350 years proving ineffective to destroy Shugden, what's one chakra from Dudjom Rinpoche going to do?" - Thai Monk


That just sums this whole thread!  ;D

Because of closed minds, people will not see what is true and real.
Because of open minds, nothing can mask the truth.
I guess, when minds are closed and gullible, they would need to believe that something can actually protect them (or bring them harm.)
In my experience, nothing brings greater than a mind that's corrupted by ignorance or wrong views.
Helena

Helena

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2011, 06:52:14 AM »
I meant to say -

NOTHING BRINGS GREATER HARM THAN A MIND THAT IS CORRUPTED BY IGNORANCE OR WRONG VIEWS.

Hence, if someone says a deity can bring harm, the flock believes and accepts and goes out onto a rampage to 'cleanse' their community of this deity. And if someone believes that a practice can bring harm, then they will go out to condemn it. Unfortunately, no one has the wisdom to even find out more or investigate further. What's worse, no one even bothered to think deeper and reflect on their real Dharma practice.



Helena

Positive Change

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2011, 06:55:01 AM »
I cannot but grin and shake my head in disbelief as I read this post. What a farce! (no disrespect to anyone intended but the whole idea of getting or wanting 'protection' from Dorje Shugden is just so ridiculous) I agree totally with thaimonk about the facts below:

How many pujas since the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama (350 years) till current times has been done to destroy Shugden? How many hundreds of fire pujas, rituals, binding rituals, excorcisms, wrathful practices done by the Dalai Lamas themselves, regents, heads of other schools of Buddhism, the Mindroling Rinpoches, Sakyas, Namgyal Monastery, Sera Je Monastery??? It is beyond count. Why is it that NOT ONE SINGLE LAMA, MONASTERY OR RITUAL CAN DESTROY, BIND OR CAPTURE DORJE SHUGDEN??? Doesn't it seem futile already so many great lamas like the Dalai Lamas himself have tried to bind Shugden and even he cannot?

What is that saying to you? Shugden is Manjushri beyond a doubt and no harm can ever come to Manjushri. Clear and simple. All the rituals done against Shugden only serve to show you how he cannot be destroyed. If Shugden is a demon, then surely the Dalai Lama would have more power and be able to bind him easily.

With so many rituals, pujas and lamas for 350 years proving ineffective to destroy Shugden, what's one chakra from Dudjom Rinpoche going to do?

Moreover, the so called chakras are really silly and cartoon looking. Once again I do not mean no disrespect to the person who created it but surely some quality control is in order??? Surely Dudjom Rinpoche's camp can do a more convincing portrayal of a so called demon protection chakra. Dudjom Rinpoche deserves much better representation... :)

All in all the facts in the quote above dont lie... it is a no brainer really! At least for my puny little mind!

dsiluvu

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2011, 07:58:45 PM »
Oh my goodness this is really hilarious!!!

This is embarrassing. How can someone of such status like Dudjom Rinpoche put himself down to be same like people who are superstitious? It looks like this anti-Shugden chakras are created for those who have very little faith in the Buddhas. I guess Yamantaka chakras are not as powerful as these scorpions??? And I guess their saying is that Dorje Shugden is so POWERFUL more then all our Buddhas and Dharma Protectors.

It is not only not befitting of a high Lama, it shows people that High Lamas are not very effective. Because after all that is done, all those rituals to capture Dorje Shugden all has failed. So now we resort to some bad sketching of scorpions. Are the we that gullible??? Or are taking advantage of the gullible for different agendas???   

Roberto

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2011, 09:41:49 PM »
@dsiluvu.... you got that right, this is beyond a joke.

Lama's making anti-Buddha chakras, people believing and actually buying them for protection. Come on people wake up! You are buying a protection talisman to protect you from the spirit /  demon / evil that is that has been around many many generations, that no High Lama from the past, or even today has been able to do anything about.

Either Buddhas teachings are wrong, or the scriptures are wrong, or the Lama's that taught the pratice are wrong.

Whatever way you look at it these little pieces of paper will not have effect. I don't need any divination, or dough ball ritual to divine the authenticty of these chakras.

Thank you Dudjom Rinpoche for humbling those who bought them and for teaching us how to be selfless for Dorje Shugden.

WoselTenzin

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 11:09:33 PM »
I am so sorry to say this but, these chakras make Dudjom Rinpoche look below his station. Below his status. It makes him look petty. I do not mean to criticize him, but grand lamas such as himself should not concern themselves with Dorje Shugden at all.

Look at the 16th Karmapa who never uttered one word to criticize Shugden. In fact Karmapa was very close and friendly with the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche never criticized Shugden ever. HH Penor Rinpoche never criticized Shugden either. Great lamas. Great examples.

Dudjom Rinpoche criticizing Shugden hurts many people. I do not mean ill-will to Dudjom Rinpoche, but it hurts to know he would do this.

Sorry. 




I find it hard to believe that a Lama of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing would criticize and put down the faith of others be it DS practice or not.  My teacher has always said to never ever criticize the faith of others. 

Whatever their faith is, if it helps them and makes them better people, it has served its purpose.  Criticizing the faith of others especially by someone of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing is extremely detrimental as it can cast doubts in the minds of its practitioners and bring them away from their practice.  How disappointing to such a thing!

Zach

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2011, 09:49:31 AM »
I am so sorry to say this but, these chakras make Dudjom Rinpoche look below his station. Below his status. It makes him look petty. I do not mean to criticize him, but grand lamas such as himself should not concern themselves with Dorje Shugden at all.

Look at the 16th Karmapa who never uttered one word to criticize Shugden. In fact Karmapa was very close and friendly with the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche never criticized Shugden ever. HH Penor Rinpoche never criticized Shugden either. Great lamas. Great examples.

Dudjom Rinpoche criticizing Shugden hurts many people. I do not mean ill-will to Dudjom Rinpoche, but it hurts to know he would do this.

Sorry. 




I find it hard to believe that a Lama of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing would criticize and put down the faith of others be it DS practice or not.  My teacher has always said to never ever criticize the faith of others. 

Whatever their faith is, if it helps them and makes them better people, it has served its purpose.  Criticizing the faith of others especially by someone of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing is extremely detrimental as it can cast doubts in the minds of its practitioners and bring them away from their practice.  How disappointing to such a thing!

Rain of Adamantine fire....a Nyingmapa authored work explaining how people break their refuge vows when they practise Dorje shugden.
Such much for not critising... :o

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2011, 12:19:59 PM »
I am so sorry to say this but, these chakras make Dudjom Rinpoche look below his station. Below his status. It makes him look petty. I do not mean to criticize him, but grand lamas such as himself should not concern themselves with Dorje Shugden at all.

Look at the 16th Karmapa who never uttered one word to criticize Shugden. In fact Karmapa was very close and friendly with the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche never criticized Shugden ever. HH Penor Rinpoche never criticized Shugden either. Great lamas. Great examples.

Dudjom Rinpoche criticizing Shugden hurts many people. I do not mean ill-will to Dudjom Rinpoche, but it hurts to know he would do this.

Sorry. 




I find it hard to believe that a Lama of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing would criticize and put down the faith of others be it DS practice or not.  My teacher has always said to never ever criticize the faith of others. 

Whatever their faith is, if it helps them and makes them better people, it has served its purpose.  Criticizing the faith of others especially by someone of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing is extremely detrimental as it can cast doubts in the minds of its practitioners and bring them away from their practice.  How disappointing to such a thing!

Rain of Adamantine fire....a Nyingmapa authored work explaining how people break their refuge vows when they practise Dorje shugden.
Such much for not critising... :o

Zack, I have a copy of the Tibetan text you mentioned. It was authored by Chadral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche, a close friend of Dudjom Rinpoche. It was an attack on Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's Yellow Book.

Zach

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2011, 02:41:07 PM »
I am so sorry to say this but, these chakras make Dudjom Rinpoche look below his station. Below his status. It makes him look petty. I do not mean to criticize him, but grand lamas such as himself should not concern themselves with Dorje Shugden at all.

Look at the 16th Karmapa who never uttered one word to criticize Shugden. In fact Karmapa was very close and friendly with the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche never criticized Shugden ever. HH Penor Rinpoche never criticized Shugden either. Great lamas. Great examples.

Dudjom Rinpoche criticizing Shugden hurts many people. I do not mean ill-will to Dudjom Rinpoche, but it hurts to know he would do this.

Sorry. 




I find it hard to believe that a Lama of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing would criticize and put down the faith of others be it DS practice or not.  My teacher has always said to never ever criticize the faith of others. 

Whatever their faith is, if it helps them and makes them better people, it has served its purpose.  Criticizing the faith of others especially by someone of Dudjom Rinpoche's standing is extremely detrimental as it can cast doubts in the minds of its practitioners and bring them away from their practice.  How disappointing to such a thing!

Rain of Adamantine fire....a Nyingmapa authored work explaining how people break their refuge vows when they practise Dorje shugden.
Such much for not critising... :o

Zack, I have a copy of the Tibetan text you mentioned. It was authored by Chadral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche, a close friend of Dudjom Rinpoche. It was an attack on Kyabje Zemey Rinpoche's Yellow Book.

You do ? this work has yet to be translated into english enlarge I think what was the basis of the response to the yellow book Duke-la ?

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2011, 08:54:34 AM »
Zack, I have the text but have not read it. It is not really something I want to invest the time trying to understand. If you, or anyone else want a copy of the text, send me a message and I will send it to you. Maybe someone with a better grasp of Tibetan, and much freetime  can tackle this.

Zach

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2011, 02:45:55 PM »
Zack, I have the text but have not read it. It is not really something I want to invest the time trying to understand. If you, or anyone else want a copy of the text, send me a message and I will send it to you. Maybe someone with a better grasp of Tibetan, and much freetime  can tackle this.
[/quote

Cheers Duke-la I have no grasp of Tibetan what so ever :)

diamond girl

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2011, 01:32:49 PM »
My first reaction to this chakra was - "You have got to be kidding??"

As I looked longer and noticed the 2 scorpions, it just felt evil and creepy. Personally to me scorpions represent some dark energy. Whether it is Dorje Shugden in the middle or not, the 2 scorpions makes this chakra "evil".

This post below does makes me think and see how such efforts of this chakra, eventhough by a reputable Lama Dudjom Rinpoche is really pointless.

How many pujas since the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama (350 years) till current times has been done to destroy Shugden? How many hundreds of fire pujas, rituals, binding rituals, excorcisms, wrathful practices done by the Dalai Lamas themselves, regents, heads of other schools of Buddhism, the Mindroling Rinpoches, Sakyas, Namgyal Monastery, Sera Je Monastery??? It is beyond count. Why is it that NOT ONE SINGLE LAMA, MONASTERY OR RITUAL CAN DESTROY, BIND OR CAPTURE DORJE SHUGDEN??? Doesn't it seem futile already so many great lamas like the Dalai Lamas himself have tried to bind Shugden and even he cannot?

What is that saying to you? Shugden is Manjushri beyond a doubt and no harm can ever come to Manjushri. Clear and simple. All the rituals done against Shugden only serve to show you how he cannot be destroyed. If Shugden is a demon, then surely the Dalai Lama would have more power and be able to bind him easily.

With so many rituals, pujas and lamas for 350 years proving ineffective to destroy Shugden, what's one chakra from Dudjom Rinpoche going to do?



whitelion

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2011, 10:44:44 PM »
This is so creative and hilarious...

Although I have never open any chakra before, but i always heard it contains a mandala of certain deity. But in this "special chakra" we can only see 2 flaming scorpions biting an old man. I really didn't expect this naked old man which drew on the chakra represent the enlightened Buddha of Manjushri.

Agree with a lot above, i don't think a "chakra" is more powerful than any others ritual such as fire puja nor have the power to kill certain "evil spirit". In my understanding of the benefit of having a chakra is giving us protection or prevent us from our daily obstacles, so we can learn more Dharma and benefit more. But this chakra look like it only serve one purpose which is kill Dorje Shugden, but think again, we are Buddhist, we don't encourage killing even if one's had done something really bad. Eg. we don't kill all the worldly gods in Tibet but Guru Rinpoche subdued them and make them swore to protect the Buddha's teaching. If in that case why do we need to kill Dorje Shugden ??

2nd, if all the linage holders from all 4 main sects can't get rid of Dorje Shugden since 350 ago till now, what makes us feel by wearing this chakra will give us protection ? I don't understand at all...

A Buddha will not be kill unless if he/she choose to, just like how Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen choose to be choked by a khata. So basically you can wear 10 or 20 pcs of this chakras but nothing will happen, because we are dealing with an enlighten mind, a Buddha who always give us unconditional love and care can never be killed.



   

thor

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Re: Anti-Shugden Chakras
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2011, 08:03:33 PM »
I have witnessed the process of chakra-making. The main 'ingredient' of a chakra is a special mantra of the deity in a circular fashion, either clockwise or anti clockwise. The mantra is in Tibetan text, and if you read Tibetan, you can read the mantra going round and round. This circular mantra is called a soongkor. The soongkor is then folded with prayers and rituals into a smaller piece of paper and then wrapped in cloth, thread etc followed by a final blessing ritual before the chakra is ready for use.

If the soongkor is of Manjushri's mantra, then we get a Manjushri chakra. If the soongkor is of Tara's mantra, then we get a Tara chakra. So... if the  'soongkor' is of two scorpions, we get scorpion chakra???  ??? And two scorpions on a piece of paper is going to beat the mantra of the King Protector Dorje Shugden (oh yes they have real Dorje Shugden chakras too). Makes no sense at all.

I can't comment on why Dudjom Rinpoche would promote these anti-shugden chakras. Chakras are meant to protect the wearer from negative influences, black magic, spirits, clear obstacles and inteferences etc but I have never known a chakra to be more effective than a puja to solve any particular situation. So, logically speaking, if fire pujas have failed to tame Dorje Shugden, what good would these so-called anti-shugden chakras be?