Author Topic: Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)  (Read 9206 times)

Mana

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Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)
« on: September 04, 2011, 11:50:44 PM »
Dear friends and devotees,

On http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden there is a special section on Dorje Shugden (they like to call him Dolgyal). There are a few articles such as statements from the Kashag, etc which we found on their website and reproduced below. Their articles are one-sided, inaccurate or only accurate partially disseminating more wrong information and creating unnecesary fear and bias.  Our dedicated team have written a respectful debate (in red) to counter the false accusations and information about Shugden and His practice. The subjects matter are below as in their website.  Please take a look:

Alternative views to www.dalailama.com's points on Dorje Shugden


His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9022

Speeches by His Holiness


Speech by His Holiness - 27 March 2006
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9033

Speech to the Second Gelug Conference
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9035


Concerning Dolgyal with Reference to the Views of Past Masters and other Related Matters
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9039

Historical References
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9042

Kashag's Statement Concerning Dolgyal
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9045


The Assembly of Tibetan People's Deputies' Resolutions
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9052

Resolution Passed by the Tibetan Youth Congress (1997)
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9048

Contemporary Scholars


The 100th Ganden Tripa (Ganden Throneholder)
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9056

The Shugden Affair: Origins of a Controversy (Part I)
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9058


The Shugden Affair: Origins of a Controversy (Part II)
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9062

Violent Events
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9065


Documentary Film
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9067



click on the link below and scroll to the very bottom to take a read.

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/


We at this website continue to work for the accurate knowledge on Dorje Shugden and his practice to be available. We intend to clear all wrong information about this sacred lineage. This perfect practice must be brought to as many as possible. We endeavour to do so. 

Mana
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:28:40 PM by Mana »

WisdomBeing

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Re: www.dalailama.com's Shugden articles that are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 09:01:09 AM »
This is amazing, Mana. Thank you so much! I was just chatting with some friends over the weekend and one of my mates so happened to have mentioned that the Dalai Lama has made such and such accusations with regard to Dorje Shugden and today, I see all these articles with the allegations refuted one by one. I haven't read them all yet but from what i have seen, it's very logical and makes sense! I've shared this on my facebook and will email my friends too.

Thanks for making it easier for me to share about Dorje Shugden. _/|\_
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan

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Re: www.dalailama.com's Shugden articles that are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2011, 11:20:37 AM »
I want to thank dorjeshugden.com for posting this to my Facebook profile and encourage all who visit this marvelous website to post this to their various social-networks. In his public remarks during his last appearance in Long Beach  [yes, I was there], HHDL, after explaining his reasons for no longer practicing Shugden, said it was up to each individual to decide for themselves whether or not to engage in this practice. If this is truly his opinion, then we should be able depend on him and those he influences to provide, or at least not conceal, accurate information so that an informed decision can be made. The constant dis-information campaign waged by those opposed to Shugden practice, so reminiscent of similar campaigns by totalitarian regimes of the past and present, only exposes their fraudulent intent. And, further, spreads the seeds of suspicion and distrust that have and will continue to dog him as long as such activities persist. Why does it seem that, in the endless news cycles and widespread proliferation of recording devices and social media, it is those so constantly in the public eye who always seem to be the very ones that fail to understand that you cannot publicly behave in different ways and saying conflicting things in different parts of the global village we all inhabit without it coming back to bite you often at the most inconvenient or embarrassing moments.

LosangKhyentse

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Re: www.dalailama.com's Shugden articles that are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 11:26:32 AM »
It is sad HH Dalai Lama has this special section to speak against Shugden on his official website. Bad image. Bad politics. Negative information that is unnecessary on a Nobel winner's offical site.  Imagine any other leader that leaves a special section on their official websites speaking negatively about any spiritual practice. It just does not look good in this day and age. Perhaps the people behind the Dalai Lama's website (formerly known as TGIE) have the wrong attitude and that is why they still cannot win any autonomy for their lost country. The whole mindset of Tibetans/Govt must change. However they have been operating does not work obviously.

The arguments set forth to counter whatever is said by HHDL is excellent. Clear, logical, precise and highly informational. I applaud the people on this website to come up with a logical counter to all the articles against Shugden written on www.dalailama.com. It's high time this was done.

Thank you for the hard work as usual.

TK

LosangKhyentse

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Re: www.dalailama.com's Shugden articles that are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 11:44:34 AM »
I want to thank dorjeshugden.com for posting this to my Facebook profile and encourage all who visit this marvelous website to post this to their various social-networks. In his public remarks during his last appearance in Long Beach  [yes, I was there], HHDL, after explaining his reasons for no longer practicing Shugden, said it was up to each individual to decide for themselves whether or not to engage in this practice. If this is truly his opinion, then we should be able depend on him and those he influences to provide, or at least not conceal, accurate information so that an informed decision can be made. The constant dis-information campaign waged by those opposed to Shugden practice, so reminiscent of similar campaigns by totalitarian regimes of the past and present, only exposes their fraudulent intent. And, further, spreads the seeds of suspicion and distrust that have and will continue to dog him as long as such activities persist. Why does it seem that, in the endless news cycles and widespread proliferation of recording devices and social media, it is those so constantly in the public eye who always seem to be the very ones that fail to understand that you cannot publicly behave in different ways and saying conflicting things in different parts of the global village we all inhabit without it coming back to bite you often at the most inconvenient or embarrassing moments.

I agree 100% percent with Lozang. If you are going to leave it to the individual to decide to practice or not, then give FULL AND COMPLETE INFORMATION to the public. Without  complete information to decide yay or nay, then it can lead to suspicions there are negative intents. Or simply something is not transparent enough to decide properly. Who can swallow this?

Initially there was so much talk about Shugden being evil BECAUSE IT CAME FROM THE DALAI LAMA'S own warnings. But there are so many other very great lamas such as Panchen Lama (previous one) who practiced. How can everyone be wrong and just Dalai Lama be right?  But as the dust settles, everyone will and should think more.

These articles posted by this website with counter arguments respectfully challenge the allegations against Shugden are timely and necessary. Many thanks to this website.

The way Tibetan Leaders operate in the Tibet of the past cannot work in today's world anymore. The media glare is too loud and any discrepancies will be found out fast.

Thank you Lozang for your explanation.

TK
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 01:00:33 PM by Mana »

Big Uncle

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Re: Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 05:11:29 AM »
Yes, that's why Dorje Shugden will continue to get bigger and bigger. It attracts tremendous amounts of attention and even those not into Buddhism but with a little interest in Tibet/China would have heard about Dorje Shugden. We are indebted to the website team for such illuminating information regarding Dorje Shugden. Now, we have a information from both sides and it is easy those new to Dorje Shugden to formed an informed opinion regarding Dorje Shugden.

I read through a few of the articles and I am simply amazed with the background homework they would have to make. I rejoice for that and I do hope this will speed the bringing down of the ban on Dorje Shugden. I think, for those outside of Tibetan communities, such good information is all that is necessary. However, for those within Tibetan communities and this refers to the Lamas and the Sangha community, bringing down of the ban is essential as it directly impacts that daily lives.

diamond girl

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Re: Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 06:33:56 PM »
Thank you to the team behind this website. The points written to counter the articles against Dorje Shugden by his HHDL are very well written with proper flow of thoughts. With the points provided it gives readers a comprehensive view to decide for themselves. This provides for true choice. It makes people think. It makes me think and further endorses my choice to continue my practice of Dorje Shugden.

vajrastorm

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Re: Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 04:37:02 AM »
A million thanks to the wonderful team of this website for presenting (so succinctly and logically) a point-by-point counter argument against everyone of the points raised by the Dalai Lama in his website about why Dorje Shugden is a spirit and therefore should not be practiced. This is a post that must be read by all. Thank you Mana for drawing our attention to this post.

Reading this , one's conviction and faith in Dorje Shugden is renewed. He is definitely the Enlightened Dharma Protector who arose specifically to protect and spread the teachings of Je Tsongkapa which are so vital for this degenerate age. Through the clear counter arguments presented very respectfully by this website, one can see at once how erroneous are the arguments raised by HH Dalai Lama against Shugden practice.   

DharmaSpace

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Re: Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 12:07:15 AM »
Quote
In his public remarks during his last appearance in Long Beach  [yes, I was there], HHDL, after explaining his reasons for no longer practicing Shugden, said it was up to each individual to decide for themselves whether or not to engage in this practice.

Dear Lozang Gyaltsan,
What the Dalai Lama said seems like a tone down from his previous speeches when he commented or criticised about Dorje Shugden.
if the Dalai Lama can have dialogues with quantum physicists and scientists, he is definitely not someone that is out of touch with current technology or the world.  So for him to make contradictory statements about the Dorje Shugden I still think it is premeditated.

THANK YOU Dorjeshugden website for providing us points debunk the information on the dalai lama's website.

kris

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Re: Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 05:05:18 PM »
His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9022


I felt all the newbies must read this article. It is very well explained, and really thank the people in this forum who spends so much time to find information for newbies like me.

Ensapa

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Re: www.dalailama.com's Shugden articles that are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2012, 09:13:31 AM »
It is sad HH Dalai Lama has this special section to speak against Shugden on his official website. Bad image. Bad politics. Negative information that is unnecessary on a Nobel winner's offical site.  Imagine any other leader that leaves a special section on their official websites speaking negatively about any spiritual practice. It just does not look good in this day and age. Perhaps the people behind the Dalai Lama's website (formerly known as TGIE) have the wrong attitude and that is why they still cannot win any autonomy for their lost country. The whole mindset of Tibetans/Govt must change. However they have been operating does not work obviously.
You're right, TK. That section on Dorje Shugden is not necessary at all. It contradicts his position as the spiritual leader of Tibet and it also contradicts the freedom cause that he champions so much at the same time. The worst part is, that section of the website is riddled with spelling mistakes and factual inaccuracies which is just enough to confuse the average reader but not the more educated ones.

The arguments set forth to counter whatever is said by HHDL is excellent. Clear, logical, precise and highly informational. I applaud the people on this website to come up with a logical counter to all the articles against Shugden written on www.dalailama.com. It's high time this was done.
There are just too many loopholes to the statements posted on the website to not counter. Some of the information found in the articles were quoted from Lamas that were banned by the CTA for various reasons such as Chankya Ropla Dorje. Why quote him as a great master when you have already banned him? Wouldnt unbanning his reincarnation first be a smarter idea?

Thank you for the hard work as usual.

TK


It is very important that factual inaccuracies are actually refuted so that there is a chance for the people who read them to know the truth, else there is completely no way for people to know what is actually going on. Having clear and precise information that cuts through false ones like a hot knife through butter is exactly what we need at this point to hasten the lifting of the ban

beggar

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Re: www.dalailama.com's Shugden articles that are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2012, 05:27:17 PM »
It is sad HH Dalai Lama has this special section to speak against Shugden on his official website. Bad image. Bad politics. Negative information that is unnecessary on a Nobel winner's offical site.  Imagine any other leader that leaves a special section on their official websites speaking negatively about any spiritual practice. It just does not look good in this day and age. Perhaps the people behind the Dalai Lama's website (formerly known as TGIE) have the wrong attitude and that is why they still cannot win any autonomy for their lost country. The whole mindset of Tibetans/Govt must change. However they have been operating does not work obviously.


Especially sad that these articles and statements are coming from a person who has been a winner of the noble peace prize and globally recognised as someone who fights for freedom, peace, human rights. In this case, I am more inclined to think this is the work of the CTA (for it is said that the dalai lama himself doesn't use technology much). Why would any loving, democratic leader (spiritual or political) exclude anyone from his fold? It does not make any sense that any one of any faith, background, culture, or race are permitted to the Dalai Lama's teachings and public events, but not shugden practitioners. This is neither democratic nor fair, and certainly reflects very badly upon the Dalai Lama as a leader. Would people take him seriously, if they knew this is the kind of policy he endorses among his own community?

There's a letter on this point in the letters section of the website, which brings this up directly to the CTA. Many good points there, including how detrimental public articles like this are for both the secular and spiritual divisions of the Tibetan exiled community. I've repasted the letter below for your reference too. If you're moved by this, please also do your part to print out the letter, sign it and send it in to the CTA. All the relevant addresses are on this thread: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.0


http://www.dorjeshugden.com/spread-the-word/write-a-letter/make-a-difference-letter-8/


Dear CTA

Over the last 50 years, His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama has almost singlehandedly made Buddhism grow throughout the world. He has been the face of Buddhism as well as the Tibetan struggle for Independence. He epitomizes harmony and world peace, and is recognized for this with the prestigious Nobel Peace Prize.

I would like to ask the CTA why such a Grand Buddhist Master has a page of hatred on his website against those who practice the Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden. And nobody in the CTA has presence of mind to see that this is detrimental to the worldwide reputation of His Holiness and Tibet. What would people think – that His Holiness the Dalai Lama who champions interfaith harmony, would ask Buddhist to turn on fellow Buddhist? Isn’t that hypocritical?? How can His Holiness the Dalai Lama who promotes love, compassion, justice, and forgiveness also promote hatred, division, and condemnation? Does the CTA see that this webpage which criticizes Dorje Shugden contradictory to the political and spiritual interests of the CTA and His Holiness?

Political because even though the Dalai Lama has retired as the political head of the then Tibetan-Government-in-Exile, His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the most publicly recognized representative of Tibetan autonomy if not independence. Even though Kalon Tripa Dr. Lobsang Sangay is now the elected head of the CTA, I am sorry to say, majority of people still think of His Holiness as the Head of Tibet. What would people think of His Holiness as someone who orders Tibetans to not share material and other resources with Dorje Shugden practitioners? To not serve them? To not grant travel papers to them? Isn’t that illogical?

On a spiritual level, His Holiness is a holy monk with vows and the supreme example of Guru Disciple relationship. What will people think of Buddhism and the Guru Disciple relationship if His Holiness can say his Gurus are wrong? New or nascent Buddhists will be confused by this situation and could be put off learning more about Buddhism. The image of Buddhism given by the anti-Dorje Shugden webpage on His Holiness’ website is so negative and contrary to real Buddhism that I believe that the CTA should ensure that the page is removed as soon as possible before more negative impact is made to the impression of Buddhism, His Holiness and Tibet in general.

Sincerely,
(YOUR NAME)

Ensapa

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Re: Shugden articles in www.dalailama.com are inaccurate (Debate)
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 07:21:52 AM »
It's quite an amazing piece of work that this website has done about refuting the lies that are against Dorje Shugden on the Dalai Lama's site because firstly, the facts there are grossly inaccurate and although they can  mislead the standard newbie, they will not be able to trick everyone else for long. People will eventually find out what is going on and they will lose respect for the Dalai Lama. I hope that is not what CTA wants to achieve.