Author Topic: Jealous of Gelugs  (Read 22864 times)

Mana

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Jealous of Gelugs
« on: May 05, 2011, 01:44:53 PM »
Those who denegrade great Gelug Tulkus/Lamas/Geshes accusing them of Shugden practice are actually trying to suppress the Gelug Lineage.
Just becasue they may or may not practice Shugden does not take away from their learning, hardwork, studies, meditations, practices and in some cases attainments. Those who are jealous or against Gelug School specifically target Gelug teachers to bring them down by saying they engage in Shugden. This is the short term trend at this time.

We have to beware, accusing Gelug Teachers has become something political to suppress them due to various reasons that are not arising from good motivation. We must stop this trend of sectarianism against the Gelug School of Buddhism by not participating in it and not degrading teachers of the Gelug School nor any School. Why hurt your own family? Those within Gelug should stop accusing eachother of Shugden. It does not fulfill our long term goals as intended by Father Tsongkapa.

Mana


LosangKhyentse

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 01:53:27 PM »
There are some within Gelugs who are perhaps jealous of other Gelug teachers and they accuse eachother of either practicing Shugden or not. Whether you practice Shugden or not, either way  is bad depending from what group you are from.

Your agenda may not be exposing whether they practice or not, or they are not 'honest' because they do not openly practice, but your purpose is to damage them for whatever motives you are harbouring. Otherwise, who does it actually make a difference to whether this lama practices Shugden or not. It is not our right to check, accuse or so called expose. Everyone has the freedom to practice, not practice, secretly practice as and when they like. I agree with Mana. This trend of policing lamas from all sides should cease. Otherwise we just damage the sacred Gelug lineage on our own by our own speech.

TK

thaimonk

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 02:32:44 PM »
Those who denegrade great Gelug Tulkus/Lamas/Geshes accusing them of Shugden practice are actually trying to suppress the Gelug Lineage.
Just becasue they may or may not practice Shugden does not take away from their learning, hardwork, studies, meditations, practices and in some cases attainments. Those who are jealous or against Gelug School specifically target Gelug teachers to bring them down by saying they engage in Shugden. This is the short term trend at this time.

We have to beware, accusing Gelug Teachers has become something political to suppress them due to various reasons that are not arising from good motivation. We must stop this trend of sectarianism against the Gelug School of Buddhism by not participating in it and not degrading teachers of the Gelug School nor any School. Why hurt your own family? Those within Gelug should stop accusing eachother of Shugden. It does not fulfill our long term goals as intended by Father Tsongkapa.

Mana

This makes some sense in many cases. Not all, but many. Thanks.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 06:02:35 PM »
This entire Shugden affair has created so much division within the Gelugpa and without. There are hardly any Gelugpa lamas now who are internationally respected - of course the Dalai Lama is still up there, but HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Pabongkha Rinpoche, HE Gangchen Rinpoche, HH Gaden Trisur are all low profile or outcast because of their practice. HH Trijang Choktrul has even preferred to become a lay Lama rather than get involved in the politics.

It's true what Mana says - there is already so much mudslinging at Gelugpas, why should Gelugpas pit Gelugpas against each other when we should be together in solidarity and harmony. When we criticise Lamas - with or without cause - what are we hoping to achieve? We just look petty. Are we trying to prove how clever we are? Is our ego bigger than the tradition we are following? I remember reading somewhere that Buddhism will be eventually be destroyed by Buddhists rather than outsiders and in this case, our Gelugpa tradition can grow or be destroyed by ourselves. It all depends on what causes we create, doesn't it? Family squabbles always destroy the family - is that what we want? What is our true motivation? i think that this is something everyone who wishes to point fingers should contemplate deeply.

Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

dsiluvu

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 10:36:39 PM »
Actually Mana... any good moral, ethical, kind people... need not be gelugs/buddhist would probably just practice being nice/kind..

If you have nothing nice to say about someone or something, better not say it at all cos at the end of the day, what is your point? Your reason for saying? Are we better then the other that we can criticise someone for being different. Who really are we to judge? People often forget to be nice or kind which the basis of normal ethical human conduct, no need to even talk about Buddha, Gelugs or Buddhism.

So to all those who like to complain, criticise and cause disharmony, it is a clear indication you are very insecure with who you are and probably need reaffirmation to make your self feel better or ok. Funny how the tricky human jealous mind can be. It truly robes people out of true happiness and focus.... OR they really are TOO TOO FREE! Don't know what else to do but criticise others. So much time wasted on meaningless affairs.

Big Uncle

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 06:24:36 PM »
This is really the sign of degenerate times that the Lord Buddha Shakyamuni talked about. Buddhism will eventually end this way. It would not be from without.... it would be from within. Hence, instead of bickering about who has the right lineage and so forth, we shouldn't indulge too much and instead, we should make our lineage strong, make Dorje Shugden grow bigger and faster. The bigger it grows, the more people will be benefitted and more people will enter the Dharma in this way. It is really a pity that so many people don't have the merit to see the qualities of these great masters anymore. Hence, we should highlight the great contributions of these great masters. The ban on Dorje Shugden is impermanent and will eventually come to an end and things would turn around and many of these Lamas would have positioned themselves to spread the Dharma even farther and wider then.

Helena

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 07:27:32 PM »
Jealousy breeds corruption.

By corrupt, I mean, your moral or ethical values become corrupted. So, we need not even speak of any spiritual practice here. For there is nothing spiritual when our thoughts, feelings and deeds are tainted with corruption.

Jealousy is real. I am sure we have all witnessed our fair share of it.

There are people who would use Lamas to further their own centers and organizations when the time was ripe to do so. They become all friendly with the Lamas and would spend most of their time with these Lamas. Showing their respects, thanking the Lamas for helping to set up their centers and etc.

Then, when the news of the ban began to take effect, they dropped these Lamas like yesterdays's garbage bags. They actually saw their perfect opportunity arise. And you'd never guess! They see that this is the perfect time to 'squash' these Lamas and start promoting their own. All because they want to be more popular, more famous, more powerful...there are always justifiable reasons, aren't they?

Simply put - there are people who saw opportunities to reap somethings for their own benefits. There are people who really do not care about real spiritual practice or Dharma, but more interested in growing their center or organization into a powerful entity.

Yes, it is all about politics and power.

If these two are given such importance over everything else, and people can be persuaded to fight with 'their own families', then yes, we will destroy the Dharma and Gelugpa all on our own.

We can't rejoice for the success of others. We seem so fearful and insecure when others win or have more.

It is no longer about spiritual practice or Dharma, it is about power struggle and wanting more of it.

And those who participate in these kinds of activities will be the ones promoting more of it. It is not limited to just Gelugs.

Helena

DharmaSpace

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 02:41:45 PM »
When Pabongka Rinpoche was really famous in Tibet, people accused Pabongka Rinpoche of destroying statues of other lineages and being sectarian. Is one sectarian for being faithful to one's lineage?

I mean would you believe the person who gave us the Lam Rim, which is stil being used in modern times can be sectarian?

If anyone subscribes to sectarianism they are definitely not practicing the dharma. I cannot believe the guru of Trijang Rinpoche can be sectarian period. Especially after I have read the namtar of Trijang Rinpoche!

thaimonk

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 11:26:27 PM »
When Pabongka Rinpoche was really famous in Tibet, people accused Pabongka Rinpoche of destroying statues of other lineages and being sectarian. Is one sectarian for being faithful to one's lineage?

I mean would you believe the person who gave us the Lam Rim, which is stil being used in modern times can be sectarian?

If anyone subscribes to sectarianism they are definitely not practicing the dharma. I cannot believe the guru of Trijang Rinpoche can be sectarian period. Especially after I have read the namtar of Trijang Rinpoche!

All teachers who have great impact and benefit on others have to put up with jealousy, intrigue,disloyalty, rumours, gossips,and all that comes with fame. The incredible thing is they tolerate it knowingly, with great compassion and patience in order to continue to benefit.


WisdomBeing

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2011, 05:12:16 PM »
When Pabongka Rinpoche was really famous in Tibet, people accused Pabongka Rinpoche of destroying statues of other lineages and being sectarian. Is one sectarian for being faithful to one's lineage?

I mean would you believe the person who gave us the Lam Rim, which is stil being used in modern times can be sectarian?

If anyone subscribes to sectarianism they are definitely not practicing the dharma. I cannot believe the guru of Trijang Rinpoche can be sectarian period. Especially after I have read the namtar of Trijang Rinpoche!

Attained teachers have no need to be sectarian because they would know that all schools of Buddhism are equally good as they bring their practitioners to the ultimate goals of liberation.

This would probably explain why, as Thaimonk says, that good teachers knowingly tolerate jealousy and false gossip in order to benefit others. i believe that while those who are not yet advanced in their spiritual progress would complain, compare and say negative things about teachers, those who are advanced would not. This would be a good gauge of anyone's spiritual attainments or lack of it.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

vajrastorm

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 11:50:08 AM »
It’s most ridiculous that, out of jealousy, there are those who would denigrate and put down Gelug Lamas, including the highly attained Holy Beings. It’s not about the purity of Dharma practice when they criticize those who practice Dorje Shugden. These criticisms and attacks are mostly political in nature and motivation. There is no higher purpose of benefitting others or growing the Dharma through these criticisms.

Highly attained Lamas, regardless of their Lineages, are above sectarianism and all this pettiness and narrow-mindedness. I still see very clearly, in my mind’s eye, the heartwarming scene of Dilgo Kyentze Rinpoche receiving, from Panchen Rinpoche, a picture of the latter that he had requested for. Both these great masters of different Lineages exuded only love and compassion. Strife and petty jealousy

Harmony will promote the growth and spread of Dharma and the great Gelug Lineage. Petty jealousy and strife will threaten this illustrious Lineage of Je Tsongkapa and cause Dharma to degenerate.

beggar

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2011, 02:13:38 PM »
I stand strong by my principle to take the lamas as our greatest example and inspiration. It is amazing that all the lamas that are being suppressed, ridiculed, mocked, accused, slandered do not utter a single word back against anyone. This is a true practitioner.

I think what is worrying is that by human nature, more people are likely to listen to and react to negative whisperings, bad talk, gossip and rumous. A lama could do 10 good things, but as long as there is even one false rumour, people are more likely to be swayed by that.

So - do we fight fire with fire? Or find other ways? As Big Uncle has said, Buddha predicted that Buddhism will be destroyed from within and i refuse to be a part of that. I think any true Buddhist should try at all odds to avoid being part of this. I think one of the best ways to combat this jealousy is to speak up for the positive sides and show people the other side of what they are believing - in other words, show them through logic and skill what the truth is.

You don't get pulled into the politics that way, and at the same time, you provide good, solid information and education that will help future generations of practitioners make informed choices about the lamas, lineages and teachings they follow. I think the lamas prove this by their own example - the lamas never fight back, the just reveal the truth of their teachings by their action and their continued teaching of the lamrim. Like they said, good always wins over evil!

DSFriend

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2011, 03:23:24 PM »
What would be the future of someone who having met the dharma, choose to disparage the lamas and destroy a holy lineage?

What would the possibilities be for this person to meet the dharma and a perfect guru again?

Would contemplating on the effects help curb sectarianism, lama bashing, and thus NOT cutting our own opportunities to be happier people?

I sincerely hope that thinking about the repercussions will make us stop negative speech and actions

DharmaDefender

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2011, 02:44:42 PM »
I think what is worrying is that by human nature, more people are likely to listen to and react to negative whisperings, bad talk, gossip and rumous. A lama could do 10 good things, but as long as there is even one false rumour, people are more likely to be swayed by that.

So - do we fight fire with fire? Or find other ways? As Big Uncle has said, Buddha predicted that Buddhism will be destroyed from within and i refuse to be a part of that. I think any true Buddhist should try at all odds to avoid being part of this. I think one of the best ways to combat this jealousy is to speak up for the positive sides and show people the other side of what they are believing - in other words, show them through logic and skill what the truth is.

Of course, because people are always looking for an escape clause. But they forget that in doing so, they already their refuge vows, about divisive speech and idle chatter, never mind guru devotion which is a concept far too deep for most of us to grasp.

Anyway, you can't fight fire with fire, because you'll get burned (ohhh hohoho). I think the other best way to combat jealousy is to force yourself to praise the people you dislike for their successes, or at least stop criticising them for their successes.

thaimonk

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Re: Jealous of Gelugs
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2011, 04:52:45 AM »
Jealousy of Gelugs is definitely there. The Tibetan Govt from the time of the Great 5th Dalai Lama has been called 'GADEN PODRANG' or palace of Gaden. Now the Tibetan govt in exile wishes to change this name. They source 5th Dalai Lama as part of the reason to ban Dorje Shugden. But it is also the 5th Dalai Lama who named the Tibetan Govt Gaden Podrang, so they should just keep the name. why is 5th Dalai Lama right on some things and wrong on another? Isn't he the Great 5th and omniscient?

Now the Tibetan Govt in exile are discussing to change the name and to what. No conclusions yet. Are we seeing the slow formation of a non-existent Nation state or they have nothing else of importance better to do? What do you think? I think it's nothing else better to do.

5th Dalai Lama is quoted for their own conveniences. Any lama is quoted for their conveniences.  Easy to see this. Another reason we can clearly see the ban is politics pure and simple but should lead to something much bigger whatever the case.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 04:56:13 AM by Mana »