Author Topic: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?  (Read 8789 times)

DS Star

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"Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« on: August 03, 2014, 03:34:35 PM »
"Revenge and the Heart" by Linden Thorp, March 23, 2014

"I would like to put the ongoing struggles between the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden devotees into my current framework, and examine the anger and the scars it leaves, along with possible motives for revenge which I observe welling up among those courageous enough to go against the Dalai Lama’s ‘ban.’ I realize that they are sticking their necks out for Dorje Shugden practitioners in India and Tibet itself, who seem to have little or no voice, or no desire to protest.

I have recently felt the anger among those ostracized by the Dorje Shugden embargo, both on the internet and in person, and I am concerned about the scarring it will inevitably leave. This reaction has seemed mostly to be lacking in compassion and mindfulness, and has crossed the line that such practitioners are often drawing, which we are advised not to cross, ie. that samsara is a crazed dream, and reality is awakening from such a dream.

Full blow anger or irritation are dangerous negative emotional states of mind which all seekers in every religion and spiritual way of life train to truly eradicate, like the root of a poisonous plant. Any tiny root fibre left behind could start to grow anew. Anger leaves karmic scars, which will never disappear, and pushed on to the next stage of revenge, it inflicts pain, punishment and perhaps death... As we Buddhist seekers know, anger is immature and completely lacking in objectivity and wisdom.

... Perhaps it is not up to us to interfere in Tibetan cultural national matters, especially at the cost of our own merit and positive karma."

That is to say that strong protests with negative and angry remarks towards HH the 14th Dalai Lama will create negative karma to DS practitioners?

fruven

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 12:00:28 AM »
Well well, is this matter really involve the 'Tibetan cultural national matters' only? If it is so why does the ban has an influence on other countries where there are Dorje Shugden practitioners? Why are Dorje Shugden practitioners are singled out from participating in events and teachings?

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/dalai-lamas-office-disapproves-singapore-expo-on-buddhist-relics/

Blueupali

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2014, 12:53:45 AM »
Wow.  I have never seen Dorje Shugden people angry, though some of the Dalai Lama ones were flipping us off, no?  It is so normally egotistical of the DL school to act as though everyone else is getting bad karma for saying anything.... that is the hallmark of Tibetan dictatorship....  of course we can mindfully and peaceably protest; that is called freedom of speech, which is a concept (follow me here, Dalai Lama) not unrelated to freedom of religion....
  Look, I am sorry the Dalai Lama followers are so confused, but constantly telling us we shouldn't be talking or we will get bad karma, well that's convenient to say if you don't want opposition, right?  People won't fall for that forever, okay....

Matibhadra

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2014, 05:30:37 AM »
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"Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?

There is no such ”revenge” in people's urge to get rid of the oppressive dictator. It's just the natural human wish for freedom. Buddhism is about freedom, which includes the religious freedom repressed by the evil dalai.

”Revenge” is just in the paranoid imagination of the disgruntled minions of the pseudo-Buddhist, evil dalai, and their baseless accusation was unfortunately introjected by the author of the article quoted in the original post.

Quote
That is to say that strong protests with negative and angry remarks towards HH the 14th Dalai Lama will create negative karma to DS practitioners?

There is no such thing as ”angry remarks” when people unmask the pernicious clown. Unmasking evil and evildoers is an act of love and compassion.

On the other hand, covering evil and calling evildoers ”his holiness”, ”a mahasiddha”, is an act of hatred. Deception and hatred go hand in hand.

eyesoftara

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2014, 09:38:42 AM »
I do not see the motivation being revenge or any anger derived from it. In Buddhism we say that motivation is supreme. The leaders of these pro Shugden campaigns certainly have good motivation to start with and i see most of them are western Sangha with some from Shugden Tibetan Sangha and some lay practitioners western and Tibetan. They are hence more direct and proactive. For me, this is a good method and the motivation being good is a mandated start, but the actions and the results is even more important. If the actions of the campaign leads to people inevitably disparaging the HHDL and resulting in them really believing the HHDL is evil, then I think the results is similar to saying Buddha is wrong, which is really bad karmically. Hence, we have to be careful not to commit such heavy karmic sins while maintaining our efforts to lift the ban.

Ultimately, we need to think, why is a Buddha against another Buddha? It can never be true! And that leaves the only logical conclusion that they are working together and this is a play of divine activities. We must not judge either one as advised by the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. While we work hard at dismantling the ban, we must remain calm and practice the Dharma in all our actions towards that objective.

Kim Hyun Jae

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2014, 01:25:22 PM »
With all that said, I do not agree to be angry over HH the Dalai Lama's ban on DS or direct "revenge" at any anti-Shugden practitioners. Karma goes round and returns.

All Dorje Shugden campaigns were well organized, peaceful and without any act of violence. This goes to say we practice what we preach - for peace with peaceful means.
 

Matibhadra

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 06:12:32 AM »
Quote
If the actions of the campaign leads to people inevitably disparaging the HHDL and resulting in them really believing the HHDL is evil, then I think the results is similar to saying Buddha is wrong, which is really bad karmically.

Only the most obscure, primitive religious fanaticism could lead someone to praise and devote oneself to a sordid terrorist as a ”buddha”, which is precisely what you do.

kris

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 08:12:37 AM »
Using the same logic,

That is to say that strong violence with negative and angry remarks towards DS practitioners will create negative karma to CTA and HH the 14th Dalai Lama?

Many of the people who are against the ban is not anti HH Dalai Lama. Instead, Dorje Shugden practitioners want a dialogue with HH Dalai Lama to resolve the ban and have freedom to practice. On the other hand, I do see a lot of anger in HH Dalai Lama's students where they show disrespectful actions (like flipping the apron, show middle finger, etc). I am pretty sure the karma will come back one day. Karma is watching, and nobody can escape karma.

bonfire

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 11:41:00 AM »
I don't think this is about revenge, nor anger.
Maybe some people got angry and some people develop a revengeful mind, but the topic about the ban is not about that.
Those that may have lost patience should restore their peace of mind, on every side of the ban.

The followers of the Dalai Lama may find it offensive that there are protests against the ban, but the banners I saw were asking for the Dalai Lama to stop lying, simply because that is how the ban is experienced: as a lie.
Why does the Dalai Lama lie on this topic is a matter of debate indeed, but there are so many contradictions in the Dalai Lama's speech on the topic that we should all be wondering what is the matter here????
And this, without anger nor fear, nor revenge in mind, that is unnecessary.

Anger brings about negative karma indeed, whichever the circumstances.
So can we go back to the root of the question and ask: why is the Dalai Lama instauring a ban that is totally ungrounded? Why is he denigrating his own gurus? Why is he lying?
This said without anger nor seeking "revenge".

Thank you

Matibhadra

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 02:01:50 PM »
Quote
That is to say that strong violence with negative and angry remarks towards DS practitioners will create negative karma to CTA and HH the 14th Dalai Lama?

A logic statement which is a pleasure to read. Of course the evil dalai and his minions are just collecting negative karma engaging in the 5 heinous actions of immediate retribution.

But many people, even on this forum, having introjected the accusations of the terrorist dalai and his gang, are unable to think logically, and claim that just realizing the ”emperor” has no clothes is a sign of ”anger” and would create ”negative karma”.

dondrup

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 02:32:13 PM »
The more the ban on Dorje Shugden is prolonged, the more anger is brewed within the Dorje Shugden followers' minds. This is more so with those grassroot Tibetan Dorje Shugden followers who had been discriminated, ostracised, and tormented by the ban for more than 18 years.  Who could tolerate such injustice? 
 
The truth is no one is seeking revenge against His Holiness Dalai Lama.  In fact all Tibetans revere him so much.  But the rest of the world could not tolerate HHDL's hypocrisy any longer.  How could HHDL continue to lie and ban Dorje Shugden?  The protests against HHDL is not revenge; it is about correcting the wrong done by HHDL.  HHDL has infringed on the human rights and religious freedom of the Tibetan Dorje Shugden followers (as enshrined in the constitution of the Tibetans in Exile) and all other non-Tibetan Dorje Shugden followers.  The protests have so far been authorised by the respective authorities and legally acceptable and hence they were not done to cause harm to HHDL.  The actual motivation of the protests is to request HHDL to lift the ban.  Participants of these protests were merely calling the attention of the world towards the plight of Dorje Shugden practitioners.  In no way were the protests being used to hurl negative and strong remarks towards HHDL. Knowing that HHDL is an emanation of Chenrezig, would one ignorantly hurl negative and strong remarks against HHDL?  Of course not!

Matibhadra

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Re: "Revenge" towards HHDL not Buddhists' practice?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 04:31:31 PM »
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Knowing that HHDL is an emanation of Chenrezig, would one ignorantly hurl negative and strong remarks against HHDL? Of course not!

It would be very ignorant indeed to believe that the evil terrorist dalai is an ”emanation of Chenrezig”!