Author Topic: Addictions and DS  (Read 16800 times)

iloveds

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Addictions and DS
« on: April 04, 2011, 11:32:28 PM »
Yes I have been quiet for awhile now, but a little background.

I have a "friend" who is struggling with addiction, suffers paranoia and delusions whilst under the influence and just cannot go a day without a fix.

He is losing everything around him, loved ones don't know what to do, financially just getting by.

Intervention will make him run, go further from help and alienate those closest to him. Apart from praying for him, what would be the next best step. I doubt he would listen to buddhist philosophies let alone practice anything.

Any suggestions?

Big Uncle

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 06:13:33 AM »
I think you need professional help and perhaps he needs to be locked up an institution against his will for awhile and slowly wean him off his dangerous addiction. No way, you can help him on your own when it comes to drugs especially when he is so caught up with his chemical addiction. He has lost all sense of decency and so you have to forcibly help this person now. Consult your local professional help on this matter. If you can, try to sponsor Dorje Shugden pujas and you do it yourself on your friend's behalf.

iloveds

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 02:36:47 AM »
I was suggested that by a friend that I should create a situation whereby he would be locked up. That way.... like you said, he would be forced into a state of clarity as the access is cut off.

But the thing is, in lock up, is where u find more drugs, and people with the same karma. I am sure it would bring him further down as well as connect him with people he would end up mixing with when he gets out.


Losang_Tenpa

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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2011, 01:50:54 PM »
I have had problems with addictions in the past and this I know for myself: when I stray from my daily sadhana practice and other commitments, that is a red-flag and my guard is down for addictions to flare.

When I keep a solid routine with my sadhanas and other commitments, I feel the path beneath my feet so to speak and addictions are kept at bay.

I know I have over smplified this, but this is what works for me.

iloveds

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2011, 08:49:02 PM »
Glad to see a daily sadhana has positive effects, good for you that it helps to keep you in check. But how would I get him to see he too can benefit from the Dharma. And maybe Dorje Shugden.

How was it for you? Is it as Big Uncle says he needs to kit rock bottom? What's your experience?

Losang_Tenpa

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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2011, 09:09:48 PM »
My rock bottom was over 10 years ago when I lost all respect from my family and friends.
 Everything changed when I met my Lama in 2000. For the first time, I felt like I had found direction in my life.
Things didn't get suddenly become perfect, and I have had many struggles along the way, but that sense of 'feeling the path beneath my feet' was key for me; some practice to keep me grounded on a daily basis.


thaimonk

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2011, 04:06:09 AM »
A friend wrote this and asked for help. What do you think? How can we help everyone involved?


We have a person in the dharma centre who is alcoholic. The person makes promises, does not keep. Spends all her money on alcohol and just stays in her room and drinks. She doesn't clean her room, or clear the garbage. Her room is starting to smell the other centre-mates are saying. One person says she even soils her bed because I guess she is too intoxicated to go to the toilet. She has roster duty to help at the centre which she agreed to but never shows up and we could be knocking on her door for up to 20 mins without her opening the door. The very new members at the centre was shocked and asked 'why does the centre allow this?'

Her duties in the centre are to keep the grounds clean, neat, manicured and preparing for ceremonies with offerings and also registration. The times she is sober, she is very enthusiastic, very gun ho, very 'holy' acting and even condemns other people's 'wrong' views or shortcomings? Many are like, you know, you have no right to say anything to anyone, look at yourself. This has created some tensions and one member decided to opt out for a few months break.

She has gone to AA a few times but failed to upkeep it. We realize she needs help, but the whole centre and members are revolving around her addiction. I find it so unfair. Why are you in the dharma? Why are you not practicing? Why do you preach to others? Why do you not show appreciation and not address how you have hurt people? Just because you apologized, doesn't mean the hurt you created just evaporates. She expects us to just forgive and forget because we are practicing dharma! I can forgive and forget, if you can forget the alcohol and just keep to your promises. I feel angry and at meetings I lash out at one or two who defend her because they don't help run the centre or take any responsibilities. It's easy for them to show up once a week and just do pujas, put a few cushions away and just leave. They don't have to really deal with this. I do. I am considering either writing to the Lama, but I don't want to involve our teacher or just opting out.

The other students have talked to her many times to stop all this, she promises, apologizes and even cries. We can see she is in pain and telling her alcohol just makes it worse is chimed in by her nodding head in agreemant, but by evening she is just drunk and out of it. The students are considering to ask her to leave, but they feel guilty. Where does she go? If she stays, what is going to happen. Some alcoholics just take advantage of the kindness around them, give nothing back and even have explanations to justify their habits in a dharma centre. Where do we draw the line? Where does compassion become firm compassion. How does a dharma centre heal from this type of person who is obviously not in the centre for spiritual reasons anymore? I mean she is taking from the sangha. Money for sangha and dharma is being 'turned' into alcohol for her to drink. That is not the way we use donations and spiritual money. That should be heavy karma not to mention very bad image.  Do you think this woman realizes what she is doing and has shame or regrets? Or she doesn't care and just takes from everyone around her and then becomes preachy?

Should we ask her to leave? Should I just opt out? Should I write to the lama? Sorry, but I am so angry, hurt and frustrated and feel she has deceived me and our sangha? How can someone just blatantly deceive and turn around and be preachy? (I am sorry, but at times I even think how dare she has an opinion when she hurt so many. She used to go online on various sites-not anymore for a long time -I have no idea where- and very preachy also online-she told us what she use to advise others) How can someone do something so blatantly so non-dharmic in a place that we are suppose to cultivate good qualities? It's like the centre is a place to let go of attachments, not take advantage of the kindness of others, never repay back, just get intoxicated and increase our attachments.

I am sorry to ask you all this, but I am feeling really unhappy about this person who takes advantage of the dharma. Her father died of cancer this year and she never attended the funeral because she was too intoxicated to remember the date I found out only last week. What is the limits?



Helena

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 05:50:46 PM »
Wow...this is very serious and heavy.

Frankly, I do not even think I am qualified to offer an answer to this.

I have never been hit in such a way. To be so engulfed by something or someone to the point of no return. Reading this, I consider myself very lucky to have been spared of many ailments.

Sounds to me like this person is no different from a mentally unstable person. And I am very sorry to say this because the person's mind is really not sound.

It is very sad. Yes, I can imagine it is down right frustrating to want to help and continue caring for this person, even as a friend. But how does one even begin when the person does not want to help herself?

She is definitely living in denial. Until she is ready to face the music and admit or just acknowledge her problems and see how these problems have caused other people a lot of suffering too, then she is still hanging onto whatever that remains of her pride and ego. It is such a vicious cycle. Scary.

I don't imagine that she is happy at all. How can she be happy, KNOWING ALL THIS in her heart and yet still want to put up a fake front. She is lying to herself as much as she is lying to others.

Coming clean would be a first step. But only she knows if she will take that step.

It is not an easy step to make, even full knowing that you will be free. Sometimes, people are really afraid of pain and shame. They rather live in lies and hide in denials than to cut these unhealthy habits.

Full and eternal freedom does come at a price. But it is only because we have created that price to begin with. If we come clean, it is equivalent to clearing out all our debts once and for all. No more. And then we will be able to breathe and live freely.

Continuing with the denials, lies and holier than thou excuses will only lead her to dig herself into a bigger and deeper hole. A bigger debt at the end. And she will not like what's waiting at the end for sure. Does she even realise this YET?

So, can she, will she endure a period of agony and pain for eternal bliss and freedom? Does she think this is worth?

This is the question she needs to spend real time in asking herself.
Helena

iloveds

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 09:55:27 PM »
@thaimonk, I would in this case take her out of the center, as her Dharma family you would have every right to save the center from her actions which would potentially turn many away from the Dharma as well as from meeting or being close to a real Teacher if you have.

If your Guru is where u stay, then this also will be a very bad reflection on Him as the fresh visitors will see what kind of students this centers teacher produces and it won't look good for you all.

If this has been going on for a longtime then I would say its time everyone stops just letting it be and really treat her with some tough love.

You soft approach of talking with her constantly is not working or she would have changed already.

Maybe its time for her to be let go to deal with her karma... as the karma of her staying and receiving money and influencing people both new and old is also building interest every second she stays stagnant.

................................
Update on my friend:

He has separated from his partner, preferring to live alone, but also puts him into the path of heavy use, now he has bad company, gona try and see him later today to see whats his status like is now that he has the whole apartment to himself.


WisdomBeing

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 02:58:07 PM »
Dear Thaimonk,

Gosh. i can't even imagine how to cope with this situation. Your friend is in a really tough spot. I have not been living in a dharma centre so I wouldn't really know what it is like. I know Buddhists are supposed to be all compassionate and I think that the dharma centre your friend is at has already showed maximum compassion to this lady (let's call her Ms.X) who obviously is not able to or willing to take the steps to stop her addiction which is negatively impacting others. So in my humble opinion, out of compassion to others - where the needs of the many must overshadow the needs of one - Ms.X should be separated from the dharma community so that she does not create even more negative karma for herself by:

1. turning people off the dharma
2. create negative feelings in others
3. take advantage of Sangha money (this i understand is really serious stuff - if i was given any sangha money and I wasted it on alcohol or gambling, i believe the ramifications are horrible).

Only Ms.X can change her own destiny. However, despite all the good intentions of your friend (and her dharma community) has, Ms.X is unable to change, the only way is to compassionately ask her to leave. I know it sounds harsh but this is to stop her from hurting herself and the community further. Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind. And I understand that Buddhism is about compassion AND wisdom so we need to be wise as well as compassionate.

I guess if Ms.X genuinely does want to change, i'm sure your friend would help her though it would be quite difficult to regain the trust after so many broken promises. Let's hope she has the determination to do so.

My prayers for Ms.X that she will one day realise how her actions have hurt others and how she can make reparations for her actions. I do believe that no situation is irreparable, but it takes more than apologies to make things right. She should also pay back any monies which she took from the Sangha and misused. i hope Ms.X realises what a bad state she is in by missing her own father's funeral.

On the other hand, I hope your friend will be strong because often it's tougher to do the right thing than to just let things be. I really hope she doesn't opt out because of Ms.X. I'm glad to see that she doesn't want to trouble her teacher with these things though. So many students just want to throw the responsibility on the teacher.

All the best to your friend, thaimonk.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Losang_Tenpa

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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 04:48:15 PM »
Please delete my comments in this thread. I do not have the option of doing so myself. I have sent multiple messages to the moderators of this forum and all have been ignored.
Regardless for my reason for wanting my posts deleted, I think it is only fair to honor this request. I do not think I am asking too much.
I enjoy this forum and have benefitted so much since I first found this forum a few years ago, however I miss the sense of kinship that I once felt here.

Thank you so much for all that you do.
 

thaimonk

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 06:52:13 PM »
Dear Tenzin Sungrab,

I do not want to sound offensive nor am I speaking for the Admin/website/team, but whatever you write as far as I understand belongs to the forum. If they wish to delete or not is not a matter of asking too much or not, but they have done so much for you.

If you do not feel kinship, that is from your side only. But I think so many on this forum have supported you through much. And also financially helped you also. If you do not wish to feel kinship and you wish everything deleted, then all that you have recieved from this forum should be returned also? I am sorry really. But it goes two ways.

I do not think you or I are on this forum for ourselves or eachother but more for all the Dorje Shugden practitioners who benefit from this place. For example, when you post news on Shar Gaden, it benefits more than just the few ppl you do not feel kinship with anymore, but all the readers who are silent. I do not mean to accuse you, or put you down, but, please do not be ungrateful. What has anyone done to you? Nothing. What have you done for others on this forum? Do you help others on this forum as they have helped you? What do you want? What are you unhappy with? Some philosophical differences?

I mean, if you are not happy, then just don't post anymore. Not necessary with all the drama and complaints. No one has done anything to harm you. You are in a monastery with high lamas, monks and the teachings, maybe time to practice now?

I again would like to reiterate that I am not telling you off, or trying to say leave or you are bad or anything of the sort. But I have quietly read your posts over the months and no one is against you or wish you bad-please relax. Take it easy. Do you have some other problems that you might want to go and talk to the monks with and get a release maybe? Something deeper. We all have our frustrations, unhappinesses and feeling alone or disturbed. Maybe go and talk to someone there. I really mean well by this.

I do wish you well and I said something because I hope whatever I wrote here will make you think alittle bit more and relax. This is just a forum, we all do not know eachother. We come together for Shugden NOT EACHOTHER. I am sorry to the other forum ppl if I sound offensive, but I do not mean offense. I am not here except for Shugden and the many ppl that may derive benefits. It doesn't bother me what you think or don't think or you agree with me or not-it doesn't matter at all. My kinship is between Dorje Shugden and myself. I am here because I wish Shugden to be free of wrong accusations.

None of you can offend me for what you think or say because I choose to be here for other reasons than your opinions-I do apologize for saying this.

I wish Tenzin Sungrab well and always.


thaimonk

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Re: Addictions and DS
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 06:56:13 PM »
Dear everyone,

Thanks for all the time and energy spent in your thoughts regarding the friend with alcohol problem in the centre. I have copy and pasted everything and sent it to the ppl concerned.

I really appreciate what you have said and I hope something good comes of it.


Losang_Tenpa

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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 08:11:23 PM »
Thank you for your reply.

Really, my recent frustrations are nothing more than minor issues in the bigger scope of my life right now. Like you said, this is just a forum. This does not in any way mean that I am depressed or lonely etc. I am neither unhappy, nor ungrateful, just simply frustrated. It might have been a wrong choice to pester the moderators, or expect people to respond to me as they once did, but please believe that I do not wish any harm. Like I said elsewhere, I truly believe in the good motivations of this forum, and that will not change.





thaimonk

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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 08:50:01 PM »
Thank you for your reply.

Really, my recent frustrations are nothing more than minor issues in the bigger scope of my life right now. Like you said, this is just a forum. This does not in any way mean that I am depressed or lonely etc. I am neither unhappy, nor ungrateful, just simply frustrated. It might have been a wrong choice to pester the moderators, or expect people to respond to me as they once did, but please believe that I do not wish any harm. Like I said elsewhere, I truly believe in the good motivations of this forum, and that will not change.





I am sure this forum has good motivation to be created and exist. After all, what does the dorjeshugden.com team asks of us? Nothing. We use the services here and we give nothing back really. We do not have to agree with everything on this forum, but that does not mean we have not benefitted. I know I did tremendously. Nothing is 100%, so we just take the best of this forum and focus on bringing Shugden's information/practice/news/updates and conversation to as many as we can. It's our personal practice daily if you like.

People respond to you by what you do, don't do, write, what you give or don't give. Life's like that. Things can change. We can make the change.

I am glad to hear your response and I sincerely wish your frustrations go away and you will be fine.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 03:38:28 AM by Mana »