Author Topic: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds  (Read 70279 times)

Mana

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2011, 02:10:58 PM »
The Karmapa may be cleared of being a Chinese spy for now, but the stain is there and will always be there from now on. The Indian government will be even more wary from now on, and most likely Karmapa and his institution is placed under the list of observation. This is the task of the secret police as it concerns national security, the Karmapa's whreabouts will be tightly scrutinized, and it takes a lot to close the file, if ever.

If the Tibetan government continues to show support to the Karmapa, they have to be careful now not to offend the Indian government further, because they are openly showing support to someone under the India government's watchlist.

Big Uncle

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2011, 07:37:09 PM »
I wonder what is going to happen next? There is so much heat on the Karmapa now, what about Dorje Shugden? What about us, Shugdenpas? Does that mean they are too busy trying to cover and solve the Karmapa issue that the ban on Dorje Shugden is slowly loosing support? What do you guys think?

DSFriend

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2011, 07:45:45 PM »
Yes, I do think so too that the stigma will be there for a very long time.

It's been 11 years since Karmapa, then 14 years old, escaped from China under dramatic circumstances. This event still causes the Indian Govt and many others to keep a close eye on Karmapa that his claims of escaping from China was because he wanted to be close to the Dalai Lama and not that he is Chinese plant!

How much weight will this event be as a factor for the  "ruling powers" (whoever they may be) to decide if the karmapa will be the next head to replace HHDL or not. How will it be like for Shugdenpas in India if Karmapa takes over....?
 
How much liberty will TGIE have to operate under Indian Govt's close watch after the passing of HHDL (with respect)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 07:48:33 PM by DSFriend »

jessicajameson

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2011, 08:29:24 PM »
I wonder what is going to happen next? There is so much heat on the Karmapa now, what about Dorje Shugden? What about us, Shugdenpas? Does that mean they are too busy trying to cover and solve the Karmapa issue that the ban on Dorje Shugden is slowly loosing support? What do you guys think?

Good question...In my personal opinion, I don't think that Shugdenpas will get any lighter treatment than the current one (unfortunately!). I do think, however, that the majority of the people who are aware of the Karmapa issue will think twice about any decisions that the TGIE makes, including major ones like the ban of Dorje Shugden.

I believe this is so because (although I have no stance on the Karmapa issue), the TGIE have been promoting the 17th Karmapa very strongly, who is now accused of being a Chinese spy and is part of quite a big case involving illegal funds. This is quite a harsh accusation, and apparently it is very hot news in India and there are no intentions of it dying down...

The reputation of the TGIE is shaky. Believing in what they say will now be a little like: if you were investing in a company who had made good investments for you, and suddenly there was a fraud case with them being in the spotlight. You probably would think twice the next time you invest!

Shugdenpas will probably get the same treatment, but at least other people's views would change...especially if and when HHDL is not around anymore. They have will have no more golden halo to hide behind, just a closet full of ugly skeletons.

What do you think?


DSFriend

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2011, 07:19:31 AM »
Shugdenpas doesn't seem to get it any lighter yet but ironically, Dorje Shugden Monasteries are still mushrooming all over. How amazing!

I do not think the ban will have effect much longer. As the years passes, more and more tulkus are returning, who practiced Dorje Shugden, the supposedly demon in their previous lives.

How silly the ban will look on the basis that Dorje Shugden is a demon, threatens the life of HHDL, Tibetan freedom thus making Shugdenpas to be chinese spies! And now, the icing on top of the Silly Ban Cake is TGIE's own being accused as possible chinese spy.

Now, who would eat such a Silly Ban Cake served out by TGIE! 

vajrastorm

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2011, 08:43:59 AM »
I don’t think that Buddhism will ever be free of politics in this politically charged arena of the world today. However, Holy Beings as Boddhisattvas, will continue to ensure that Buddhadharma will bloom and grow at all cost, for the benefit of all beings.

The Dalai Lama and the Karmapa are Holy Beings. What is happening  re- the Karmapa being accused as a Chinese spy , is a case (as has been commented on) of karma returning back to the TGIE for their years of hounding Shugdenpas as Chinese spies.

DSFriend

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2011, 03:59:48 PM »
I don’t think that Buddhism will ever be free of politics in this politically charged arena of the world today. However, Holy Beings as Boddhisattvas, will continue to ensure that Buddhadharma will bloom and grow at all cost, for the benefit of all beings.

The Dalai Lama and the Karmapa are Holy Beings. What is happening  re- the Karmapa being accused as a Chinese spy , is a case (as has been commented on) of karma returning back to the TGIE for their years of hounding Shugdenpas as Chinese spies.


Welcome to the forum Vajrastorm. I've read quite a few of your comments in the Articles section and appreciates your sharing very much. Looking forward to your sharing in here the forum. Also, do familiarize yourself with the house rules if you haven't.

best wishes
DSFriend

Helena

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2011, 04:05:07 PM »
Karmapa - King of Karma and Karma does come back to haunt even the King of Karma?

Another "illusory play" for all to see or understand how no one can escape the forces of Karma.

TGIE's time is running out. They have nothing more that they can do or say.

Seriously, what is there really left for TGIE? There is no country to fight for, and soon, there will be no ruler either (sorry to say). They are really losing ground.

With the recent events and how the Indian Government has handled the investigation of the Karmapa - it clearly shows that they do not have much warmth or respect for the Karmapa as they clearly with HH the Dalai Lama. So, what will happen to all the Tibetans in Exile? What will happen to TGIE?

I think the answer is loud and clear.

Helena

DSFriend

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2011, 04:49:44 PM »
HH the Dalai Lama Delivers Lecture in Goa

February 8th 2011

Panaji, Goa, India, 7 Feb 2011 (Various Media Reports) - The Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has said that his deep-rooted relationship with India would not be affected by recent developments, including that of the Karmapa controversy and also in the broader context of India's relationship with China.

At the end of a Goa State Government sponsored lecture on “Ethics for the new Millennium” at the D.D. Kosambi Festival of Ideas 2011 here on Monday, the Dalai Lama was answering a specific question whether he was concerned about the implications of the recent controversy and about the otherwise “growing feeling of inconvenience about his relationship which existed over decades” with India.

He dismissed the Karmapa episode saying it was the result of “carelessness to keep proper records of money” and called it “a mistake and nothing serious” to have any consequences on their long-standing relationship with India and the future of the Tibetan community in India.

“Our relationship is not just a matter of a few decades, but a few thousand years. I view this relationship like the guru-chela relationship in the greatest Indian tradition — India our guru and we its chelas.” The Dalai Lama recalled a letter addressed to him by Morarji Desai in response to his congratulatory letter wherein he had described India and Tibet as two branches of one Buddhist tree and said, “the tree grew in India and spread its branch to Tibet. That is the basic sort of relationship with this country.”

"Six million Tibetans are physically controlled by China but 99% of their minds look at India," he said.

Commenting on Indian politicians, the Dalai Lama said they lack the spirit of great freedom fighters like Mahatma Gandhi.
The Dalai Lama recalled that he was invited when a huge statue of Mahatma Gandhi was installed in front of the Parliament.

"I am not a politician but at that time I had told Indian politicians that they must remember about Gandhiji''s truthfulness," he said.

The Nobel laureate said that Indian freedom fighters had worked selflessly and fearlessly for the country.

"They did their work honestly," he said, adding that although India got independence 60 years ago, "the current politicians lacked spirit of these freedom fighters."

He said that compared to other nations, India was stable because of democracy and independent judiciary.

"If people involved in justice are even little corrupt then it would be a disaster for the nation," he added.

During his two hour long lecture, the Dalai Lama also asked the media to play a responsible role.

"People in media have a special role to play. They can stop the wrong doings," he said and added that media should have a long nose like an elephant and should be able to smell things which are beyond the superficial reality.

"Investigate what''s going on thoroughly and inform people in unbiased form," the spiritual leader advised.

The Dalai Lama also said that India should focus on printing books that enable to spread the wealth of knowledge present in the country.

"There should be libraries in temples instead of statues," the Nobel Laureate said while responding to a query.

India has been a store house of information for the last 3,000 years and libraries in temple would motivate people towards education, he said.

"For thousands of years India has been a messenger of ''ahimsa'' and religious harmony. This itself is a message to the world," he said.

The Dalai Lama recalled an incident when a person told him about plans to build a Buddha statue.

"I told him, a Buddha statue does not speak. Instead of it, print more books that is more important," he said, adding after several wars in the last century, the 21st century should be known as the century of dialogue.

The Dalai Lama also said he was once "very much" attracted to Marxism and even wanted to join the Chinese Communist Party, which he now feels is bereft of Communist ideology.

"I was very much attracted to the internationalism of Marxism. I wanted to join the Chinese Communist party, (but) today the Chinese Communist Party is without Communist ideology," he said during the interaction session.

The spiritual and temporal leader of Tibetan Buddhists, living in exile in India for decades, still does not find anything wrong about Marxism as an ideology.

"As far as socio-economic theory is concerned, I am a Marxist," he said terming the present day Communism in China as "Capitalist Communism".

Maintaining that there was a time when Chinese Communists really worked for the needy, the Dalai Lama said, "The spirit of Marxism died in China, after the Chinese Communist Party started silencing both criticism and critics of people in power."

DharmaDefender

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2011, 06:39:17 PM »
Karmapa - King of Karma and Karma does come back to haunt even the King of Karma?

Another "illusory play" for all to see or understand how no one can escape the forces of Karma.

TGIE's time is running out. They have nothing more that they can do or say.

Seriously, what is there really left for TGIE? There is no country to fight for, and soon, there will be no ruler either (sorry to say). They are really losing ground.

With the recent events and how the Indian Government has handled the investigation of the Karmapa - it clearly shows that they do not have much warmth or respect for the Karmapa as they clearly with HH the Dalai Lama. So, what will happen to all the Tibetans in Exile? What will happen to TGIE?

I think the answer is loud and clear.

Speaking of karma, I think it's come to bite them on the arse (pardon mon francais, or summit like that). They have no successor. They don't groom anyone, don't elect anyone. They shot themselves in the foot. They pick their favourites, put all their hopes on them...and then that's it. They're left at the mercy of others. Again the Indian government has shown that they are in control; TGIE do not exist as an independent entity. Seriously, where does the TGIE's power come from, if not from His Holiness the Dalai Lama? They have no legal standing.

Great example of impermanence, I feel. Pick someone, pin your hopes on them...and then whoops, their reputation is sullied, leaving your decades of work and effort and PR gone to waste.

DSFriend

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2011, 03:21:28 PM »
Karmapa - King of Karma and Karma does come back to haunt even the King of Karma?

Another "illusory play" for all to see or understand how no one can escape the forces of Karma.

TGIE's time is running out. They have nothing more that they can do or say.

Seriously, what is there really left for TGIE? There is no country to fight for, and soon, there will be no ruler either (sorry to say). They are really losing ground.

With the recent events and how the Indian Government has handled the investigation of the Karmapa - it clearly shows that they do not have much warmth or respect for the Karmapa as they clearly with HH the Dalai Lama. So, what will happen to all the Tibetans in Exile? What will happen to TGIE?

I think the answer is loud and clear.

Speaking of karma, I think it's come to bite them on the arse (pardon mon francais, or summit like that). They have no successor. They don't groom anyone, don't elect anyone. They shot themselves in the foot. They pick their favourites, put all their hopes on them...and then that's it. They're left at the mercy of others. Again the Indian government has shown that they are in control; TGIE do not exist as an independent entity. Seriously, where does the TGIE's power come from, if not from His Holiness the Dalai Lama? They have no legal standing.

Great example of impermanence, I feel. Pick someone, pin your hopes on them...and then whoops, their reputation is sullied, leaving your decades of work and effort and PR gone to waste.

Hypothetical question:

Could all these be the skillful manifestations of enlightened beings, and TGIE is just a puppet on strings of compassion?

WisdomBeing

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2011, 07:06:32 AM »

During his two hour long lecture, the Dalai Lama also asked the media to play a responsible role.

"People in media have a special role to play. They can stop the wrong doings," he said and added that media should have a long nose like an elephant and should be able to smell things which are beyond the superficial reality.

"Investigate what''s going on thoroughly and inform people in unbiased form," the spiritual leader advised.

.....

"I told him, a Buddha statue does not speak. Instead of it, print more books that is more important," he said, adding after several wars in the last century, the 21st century should be known as the century of dialogue.


I just wanted to highlight these points from the article DSFriend posted. Although it was essentially a political speech seeking to mend bridges with the Indian government, the Dalai Lama raises here for people to investigate thoroughly - which is what he has also told people to do regarding the Shugden issue. To me, it has an underlying message - it is for us to make up our own minds and not just blindly follow what is said - by the media or even by the Dalai Lama himself.

Re the printing of books - while knowledge is good and a book can help us to learn - even books don't speak, but a Guru does, so we should listen to a Guru above all, right?
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DharmaSpace

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2011, 05:30:15 PM »
Just read this
Himachal Gives Clean Chit To Karmapa Lama
http://himachal.us/2011/02/11/26165/26165/news/baldev/comment-page-1

Kind of reminds of the fact that if one does not have the karma to be harmed one would not be harmed if one was in a war zone or battlefield. Nothing was mentioned here about the spy issue, i suppose that drops as well.   

DSFriend

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2011, 06:07:26 PM »
Just read this
Himachal Gives Clean Chit To Karmapa Lama
http://himachal.us/2011/02/11/26165/26165/news/baldev/comment-page-1

Kind of reminds of the fact that if one does not have the karma to be harmed one would not be harmed if one was in a war zone or battlefield. Nothing was mentioned here about the spy issue, i suppose that drops as well.   


I do believe that any negative circumstances which arise is not due to the karma of highly attained beings. If any obstacles arose, it is due to the negative karma of the students. This article states that karmapa's not involved. If that's the case, either there's no wrong doing from anyone or the accusations

DSFriend

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Re: Karmapa Raided over alleged illegal funds
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2011, 06:13:58 AM »
Source : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/Nothing-wrong-with-Karmapas-money/articleshow/7490536.cms

Times of India
Feb 14th, 2011

Nothing wrong with Karmapa's money



ILONIA (AJMER): Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama on Sunday reiterated there was nothing wrong with Karmapa Ugyen Trinley Dorje's unaccounted money recovered from Buddhist monastery near Dharamshala.

Talking to reporters at Barefoot College, Tilonia in Ajmer, the Dalai Lama said, "A lot of money comes from devotees from across the world, including China and the money was not recorded properly." The Dalai Lama left Rajasthan on Sunday after spending four days in the state visiting Jodhpur, Jaipur and Tilonia.

He has maintained the same line ever since the Himachal police registered case against Karmapa. The Dalai Lama said it a day after Himachal chief minister Prem Kumar Dhumal said the foreign currency case was being investigated and there was no clean chit given to Karmapa. On Friday, Himachal chief secretary also said that Karmapa was not at fault.

The Dalai Lama said, "Trust should maintain a proper register and record contributions from devotees."

The Dharamshala police is investigating the source of $ 1.6 million seized from the shrine in various currencies, including the Chinese yuan last month. Investigators have recovered Chinese SIM cards from the shrine.

Some 284 Chinese nationals visited the shrine between January 1 and December 31 last year and that strengthened police suspicion on the 17 Karmapa's Chinese connections. They believe the Karmapa has been in touch with Beijing as part of the Chinese plan to control monasteries in the Himalayan region from Ladakh in Jammu & Kashmir to Twang in Arunachal Pradesh.

The Karmapa's supporters maintain that foreign currency worth Rs 9 crore recovered from the monastery was part of the offerings. And the Dalai Lama also thinks the same.